era of the 20 Watters (are they really that good?)

[neurosis]

perhaps I am late to the party and the algorithm is just bombarding me with content about ease amps. So much that I have started considering getting something in addition to my tiny terror combo.

I have options to buy:

- Marshall SV20H Studio
- Mesa Boogie Recto-Verb
- Friedman JJ Junior

At one point I almost jumped on a Mark V25.

Some of these can approximate a few tonal options of the others but in principle their characters and operation are different enough that I see them as different beasts. The soul or core tones not the same. Either way they all do things I like and have a use for. Perhaps as a pedal platform the mesas feel better. The Mark had so many options, the recto was more loose and grainy but awesome with an OD. The Friedman seems to be similar to the Runt 20 I tried except more controllable and with higher saturation. And then there is the Plexi. The only amp on the list I have not tired but perhaps the one I want the most, except I could never use it to its full potential in my living situation as an in the room amp. It has no master volume. So that would definitely have to go through my Captor. The way the two Plexi channels can be bridged has a really nice chunk paired with the right cab and it can be further shaped with an EQ pedal and a drive.

Any of these amps would be a fun addition for my recording and noodles through the DAW. Another organic thing to mix with my fractal tones. I will likely never gig again so I definitely see them as studio tools although I wonder fi the mesas in particular could hang in a band context. I have a feeling from how they reacted in the store that they wouldn't be enough.

Either way, what do you all think of the build quality, service and longevity on these? Researching I have stumbled upon the heated debate of hardwired vs PCB. I don't think I have ever owned a non PCB amp. If I remember correctly my Fireball and Ironheart I sold also were PCB so I have never thought about this.

Its there any consideration I have to give to that fact?

I am just curious about your overall experience with these. I have been reading a lot on here and other forums but wanted to have a more direct conversation about it.

 

[TedEH]

It sounds to me like you've got the right idea already. I have the V:25 and one of the big Marks (and I frequently jump into threads as soon as Marks are mentioned, lol) and I've used it to record, to jam, to play some shows with - and generally speaking, it's what you would expect. Surprisingly loud, most of the way to the tone of the bigger amps but definitely with their own character, and a very sudden loss of headroom when you push them.

The good:
- The tone is aaaaaaaalmost there if you're making comparisons to equivalent bigger amps.
- They can be very loud despite the low wattage.
- The small weight is amazing for portability purposes.
- I really like the clean sounds you get out of the small power tubes.

The bad:
- Headroom is potentially a problem if you're relying on these for your own monitoring during a show. They're loud but not THAT loud. They can do it, but if you're not mic'd or your monitoring situation isn't great, you'll learn very quickly where your headroom limit is. Especially if you're using a not-very-loud cab.
- The power section, at least on the mini Mark, is much brighter than it's bigger brother, and/or the low end is lacking some. Maybe it's relative. The bright jangly nature of those tubes is not, IMO, suited to some high gain sounds. It's going to be brighter and hairier. You might like that. You might hate that. I count it as a negative.

 

[SpaceDock]

I love my JJ Junior. I use it in a medium sized office and can be tamed enough for those bedroom levels but can be crazy loud too. I don’t have any complaints about it except maybe the lack of a built in reverb.

 

[MYGFH]

I took photos of all my gear to sell and will prolly get the rectoverb 1×12 or 5150III el34 1×12. Technology, man, technology.

 

[neurosis]

The good:
- The tone is aaaaaaaalmost there if you're making comparisons to equivalent bigger amps.
- They can be very loud despite the low wattage.
- The small weight is amazing for portability purposes.
- I really like the clean sounds you get out of the small power tubes.

The bad:
- Headroom is potentially a problem if you're relying on these for your own monitoring during a show. They're loud but not THAT loud. They can do it, but if you're not mic'd or your monitoring situation isn't great, you'll learn very quickly where your headroom limit is. Especially if you're using a not-very-loud cab.
- The power section, at least on the mini Mark, is much brighter than it's bigger brother, and/or the low end is lacking some. Maybe it's relative. The bright jangly nature of those tubes is not, IMO, suited to some high gain sounds. It's going to be brighter and hairier. You might like that. You might hate that. I count it as a negative.

I think we have to be realistic with he limitations. They are around 20 warts and not 50, 100 etc so obviously something will give. I don't even ask the same tonal quality, just some equivalency in the personality I guess. If it's a mesa I want a certain response from it. The marks in my opinion are annoying to dial in but can be very rewarding and they have so many sculpting options that it's hard to believe you couldn't get usable stuff out them if you really try. They are good amps. I am a bit of a bigger fan of the recto myself though/ I like the looser feel for cleans and I like how they tighten with a tube screamer. So that's kind of what I am leaning to buy if it's one of the mesas judging purely on tone. But it annoys me that they missed the opportunity to make the mini rectos as fully featured as the MarkV25. I guess in their mind the Marks are already more complex in terms of options in their big form so why change the formula when making the small series of Mesas. That's why I guess they feature packed the MarkV more than the Rectos. I also think the Recto Verb is more versatile than the pure mini recto and I like the piece of furniture it is a bit better than the bent steel of its counterpart

For the MarkV25 one thing I read this morning which was unexpected is some people complain about the Volume being hard to adjust. That it's not gradual and therefore not usable in a bedroom environment. Like I said I'd use this with a Captor mostly into the DAW but it'd be interesting to hear your take on that because it's a behavior that would make it difficult to dial in for recording as well, although with less consequence.

Have you opened it up? I think the gut shots online look good for what it is. I imagine the Rectoverb is built in a similar way. Do you think it's worth he price over the Rectoverb? Do you think you could mellow it out and get similar tones to the Rectoverb with enough tinkering in one of the modes? I failed at achieving that in the shop. But I got a tone I thought was very close to LambOfGod even without an overdrive.

I love my JJ Junior. I use it in a medium sized office and can be tamed enough for those bedroom levels but can be crazy loud too. I don’t have any complaints about it except maybe the lack of a built in reverb.

have you compared it to a Marshall of similar specs and do you think the quality is really there to justify a purchase over the Marshall studio series? Most people I asked say yes but I am not sure if it's based on the sound and hype Friedman has seen in recent years rather than a thorough analysis. have you been able to compare it to a Runt20 by any chance? I am not sure the hardwiring really makes a big difference in tone or reliability. I am super confused since I have found that argument discussed on other forums. It's one of those things I never cared for but now that I realized it's a thing I wonder what I am not getting. What's so special about hardwired? I saw a photo and a lot of the components were still soldered to a board.

Do you feel the JJ Junior with all that gain on tap gets icepicks in any way or that the saturation is unusable at some settings? I love my BE-OD but only after I messed with he internal trim pod.

To give you guys an idea of what I like to use currently:

-Tiny Terror with a Tube Screamer in front into Captor X through a Marshall 4x12 Greenback in Wall of Sound in the DAW
-Plexi with Tube Screamer for rhythm through an Orange impulse in my AX8 direct to my DAW
-Friedman BE with a Tube Screamer for lead through a Marshall impulse in my AX8 direct to DAW
-Double Recto with Tube Screamer for Rhythm through a Marshall Impulse in my AX8....
-5150III blue channel for Rhythm through the default 5150III cab in my AX8...

So that's where I am. I like the beefy chunky recto with the mellow cleans. And then I like the ballsy and cutting versions of the British tones for more cutting tones.

And above all I value rock amps that can be pushed for metal. That's just my preference.

 

[neurosis]

I took photos of all my gear to sell and will prolly get the rectoverb 1×12 or 5150III el34 1×12. Technology, man, technology.

We are material girls I guess. LOL

Are you getting combos or head and cab? 5150 feels like a great option if there is a big chance you will gig. I love the blue channel but I don't think that's the route I want to go. I think for my purpose with the AX8 it's covered. For a more organic vibe I guess I could get the lunchbox because the blue channel on that is AMAZING for the prize and home work. But I feel it's a Rectoverb, the JJ/Runt or a Plexi for me this time.

I also love the idea that this Plexi is small enough to keep to the side of my table without taking up much space. The original amps are too large and in comparisons I can't tell a difference. It's just scary not having a Master Volume.

 

[TedEH]

For the MarkV25 one thing I read this morning which was unexpected is some people complain about the Volume being hard to adjust.

The initial taper on the volumes is definitely touchier than you would expect for something marketed as a "small amp", but the usability in an apartment is debatable. In one of those hi-rise type apartments with paper thin walls it would be too much. In a semi, or quad building where there's substantial walls, it's easily quiet enough. Cab choice makes a huge difference here.

Have you opened it up?

Nah. I did some tube swaps a long time ago but that's about it.

Do you think it's worth he price over the Rectoverb?

I've never tried one so I can't say. I'm very happy with the V:25, despite it's shortcomings.

Do you think you could mellow it out and get similar tones to the Rectoverb with enough tinkering in one of the modes? I failed at achieving that in the shop. But I got a tone I thought was very close to LambOfGod even without an overdrive

I'm of two minds with this, 'cause for all the versatility, Marks have a Mark sound. They don't sound like Rectos to me. At the same time, once you figure them out, it's not too hard to make them do what you want. LoG tones are an easy one on these.

 

[laxu]

I don't like them. I'd always take the 50+ watt version over the mini heads. The bigger ones, even turned down seem to just punch in a bigger way. It's not that the 20 watters can't get loud or sound good, but just never put them head to head against the bigger brother.

The Marshall SV20H is IMO just a stupid product. A non-master volume amp that is barely less loud than the 50W version and doesn't have adequate power scaling to make it work well for various situations. Pretty much everyone who buys one of those either uses it as a pedal platform or buys an attenuator to tame it - and if you do that, why not just run the big boys? Well ok, the 20W is cheaper and smaller so it has that going for it.

The thing that kills me about these is that continuous power scaling exists and it's entirely possible to have master volumes that are gradual from 0 to 10. Every time I fire up my Bogner I'm like "aww yeah, that's a great classic Marshall tone" and that's without any power tube distortion, at any volume I need.

The only cheaper amps that I know that have both good power scaling and good master volumes are the Chinese made Egnaters. Those have power scaling that goes between 1-20W plus a master volume as well as being able to adjust between 6V6 vs EL84 tubes or any mix of those (which to be fair is not that useful feature, even the manual says it's subtle). It's ridiculous that these other companies are just like "nope, that does not exist" because they either don't want to put in the time or money to have that sort of stuff.

Rant over.

 

[narad]

I don't like them. I'd always take the 50+ watt version over the mini heads. The bigger ones, even turned down seem to just punch in a bigger way. It's not that the 20 watters can't get loud or sound good, but just never put them head to head against the bigger brother.

The Marshall SV20H is IMO just a stupid product. A non-master volume amp that is barely less loud than the 50W version and doesn't have adequate power scaling to make it work well for various situations. Pretty much everyone who buys one of those either uses it as a pedal platform or buys an attenuator to tame it - and if you do that, why not just run the big boys? Well ok, the 20W is cheaper and smaller so it has that going for it.

The thing that kills me about these is that continuous power scaling exists and it's entirely possible to have master volumes that are gradual from 0 to 10. Every time I fire up my Bogner I'm like "aww yeah, that's a great classic Marshall tone" and that's without any power tube distortion, at any volume I need.

The only cheaper amps that I know that have both good power scaling and good master volumes are the Chinese made Egnaters. Those have power scaling that goes between 1-20W plus a master volume as well as being able to adjust between 6V6 vs EL84 tubes or any mix of those (which to be fair is not that useful feature, even the manual says it's subtle). It's ridiculous that these other companies are just like "nope, that does not exist" because they either don't want to put in the time or money to have that sort of stuff.

Rant over.

I basically agree. For some circuits it does work well -- lower watt Oranges seem to be really nice and sometimes preferable over higher watt heads. But some circuits really want that EL34/KT88 sound or what have you, and scaled down I don't think it's as great a sound. And if you're making compromises, why not compromise to a modeler? This is also part of my dislike of synergy stuff -- a few modules sound really great, others have just the general flavor of the amp they're seeking to realize.

 

[projectjetfire]

I think with 20 watt heads, Id be concerned about (for example, the Invective MH) what would happen when you cranked a clean channel to keep up with a drummer in a band situation. With no master volume, I can imagine it would break up so you couldnt have that sparkly clean tone.

 

[vilk]

I had a Marshall Origin 20 head that I was playing through a 1960B. It was loud enough to keep up with a Mesa Roadster and a loud ass Aguilar (and a drummer). They even told me to turn down.

HOWEVER. You really notice that headroom difference when you use certain pedals, especially fuzz, which is one of my main sounds. Ultimately I regretted not paying the extra $100 for the 50W model. I stopped using the amp in my band and switched to my bandmate's spare Mesa Nomad 45 (which made my fuzz sound amazing)

The Origin did enjoy a nice retirement as my quiet apartment practice amp. It was great for that!

Are you a pedal man? A fuzz man? If no, a 20W amp is gonna be great. If yes, you should definitely get a higher wattage amp.

 

[skullfxr]

I really like my Splawn Supersport. I like it better than any mini head that I have owned. The bottom end holds up extremely well with higher volume, which is usually a downfall of the mini head stuff.

The SS has a lot of awesome tones in it too.

 

[neurosis]

The Marshall SV20H is IMO just a stupid product. A non-master volume amp that is barely less loud than the 50W version and doesn't have adequate power scaling to make it work well for various situations.

[...]

The only cheaper amps that I know that have both good power scaling and good master volumes are the Chinese made Egnaters.

[...]

It's ridiculous that these other companies are just like "nope, that does not exist" because they either don't want to put in the time or money to have that sort of stuff.

Rant over.

I actually find that funny. I feel they are afraid to change the format. Is it still their small box rendition of a real Plexi if you add controls that the original doesn't have? I mean plexus are outrageously loud and in my opinion unappealing at any level that's not full on. I get your point but I guess they have their marketing reasons to sell this product. I actually love all the demos I have seen of it. And it was top of my list. But in the meantime my attention is drifting to something more "usable" in other scenarios.

Egnater! I wonder why we don't hear more of that company. I put them in the same bag with Koch and some others. Super affordable cool amps that do plenty, but somehow fly under people's radars. They are good tools!

Companies won't necessarily lie to you but they are in no rush to educate you on options they don't necessarily see a big market for.

I basically agree. For some circuits it does work well -- lower watt Oranges seem to be really nice and sometimes preferable over higher watt heads. But some circuits really want that EL34/KT88 sound or what have you, and scaled down I don't think it's as great a sound. And if you're making compromises, why not compromise to a modeler? This is also part of my dislike of synergy stuff -- a few modules sound really great, others have just the general flavor of the amp they're seeking to realize.

I will take my Time Terror combo over many 50 Watters. I used to play a Fireball for metal but for Rock and some mastodon tunes the Terror was enough. It is such a loud amp and if you're not looking for clean headroom it's great. It is also a great studio tool because the speaker int he combo is great and doubles as a cab for other amps I have had. Most of the time I use it into my torpedo captor nowadays and blend with whatever I have in the AX8. It's a lot of fun. And I love that you can give some more dynamics with an analog setup into the DAW and blend that with a pure digital simulation to great effect.

Synergy is stuff I do not understand. I am sure it has it's fans but how is this different from the old Randall modules? I always had second thoughts about those too. Maybe it's something as dumb as the cassette/cartridge thing making the wrong impression but I see them and think... uff how am I ever getting this fixed or serviced if it breaks? Also, how many times can you shove a cartridge in an out before this stuff wears out and gets wonky? Total speculation on my side but I don't see the appeal.

I think with 20 watt heads, Id be concerned about (for example, the Invective MH) what would happen when you cranked a clean channel to keep up with a drummer in a band situation. With no master volume, I can imagine it would break up so you couldnt have that sparkly clean tone.

Yeah I don't think the super high gain minis in particular are going to hold up to loud playing in a live setting. maybe mic-ed up and such but on their own? I am not so sure. That one in particular seems to be happy as a proposition to practice and record, get acquainted with operating an amp, etc... that's how I see it. But the Rectoverb I mention above, from what I have tried can't hold the cleans at high volume. Neither does the grind and grit you get from the high gain settings. But it is, however a fantastic rock amp if you are aware of its limitations. From this list it is really one I am considering the most. I feel it has more personality than the MarkV and I have EQ and other pedals I could use to achieve similar tones to the other if I wanted. So for a studio and small room/garage setting it would be great. For live it would probably need a boost for solos and be limited to more of a rock environment. With he right cab maybe even more.

I had a Marshall Origin 20 head that I was playing through a 1960B. It was loud enough to keep up with a Mesa Roadster and a loud ass Aguilar (and a drummer).

[...]

HOWEVER. You really notice that headroom difference when you use certain pedals, especially fuzz, which is one of my main sounds. Ultimately I regretted not paying the extra $100 for the 50W model. I stopped using the amp in my band and switched to my bandmate's spare Mesa Nomad 45 (which made my fuzz sound amazing)

[...]

Are you a pedal man? A fuzz man? If no, a 20W amp is gonna be great. If yes, you should definitely get a higher wattage amp.

Those Origin amps are so stupidly loud for what they are LOL. But I don't like them. I think they have a strange fried top when you crank them and they sound weak when they are not played loud.

I heard many good things about the nomad in recent months. At the time people hated it though. I guess you have to know what you want out of it and be patient dialing it to your set.

I had a Fuzzgod and an Archer as the heart of my tone for my Strat related noodling. But I have since moved the Archer to a more classic board and use the Fuzzgod more as an Oscillator on a small board I have for noise music. I like lush cleans like the Rectoverb. I like that fat expansive sound that you get with a neck humbucker–think some of the cleans on Ghost Reveries by Opeth. Either way, from a 20-25 watt amp I am not expecting cleans and tight gain at super loud settings. Like I said above I am content using something like the Rectoverb for recording and some small room gigs if I need it to. I don't see it becoming a loud metal stack with a clean channel that holds up in a more serious concert setting. That said, within my price range I am still looking over to the Runt50 and EVH5150III. The Friedman is more expensive but feels more like a nice new JCM900 from what I have seen (I have not played this one and don't know how it compares to the 20). But the 5150III is a killer amp and I love the blue channel.

I really like my Splawn Supersport. I like it better than any mini head that I have owned. The bottom end holds up extremely well with higher volume, which is usually a downfall of the mini head stuff.

The SS has a lot of awesome tones in it too.

Splawn Nitro is the only amp I have tried and at the time I didn't really understand what it was. So I regrettably know nothing of this company. I never kept track of them. What is specula about the SS and does it hold up at full volume?

 

[neurosis]

The three that are tempting me at the moment are:

Rectoverb 25: Lovely little amp. Giggable rock tone in disguise. Great cleans and metal tones for recording, small room playing with friends.

JJ-Junior: Good for recording and seems to cut really well for small gigs. It also has so much gain on tap and seems to be designed a little different to achieve higher volume than some other 20watters without falling apart. I only know the runt. I do not know how much different this one is. I like it but I am not so sure I should pay for the name on the amp despite how much I love the artist's work. I am also not sure how different this one will be from my Tiny Terror. That is, the mesa seems like an entirely different beast so for variety looks like that is the better, more satisfying option.

Runt-50: I can buy this for close the same money as the JJ-Junior but I have been told that it isn't built as well. I do not understand what that means. Apparently the JJ is half handbuilt and this one is not but I have read people complaining about the tube sockets being directly mounted on the board and stuff. I have no idea what that means. I suppose Dave Friedmann is smart and honest enough to not cut too many corners and still deliver a good product. I have heard great things about their customer service.

So there you have it. Love the Recto idea, but feel like buying a Friedman because it seems like I'd get more out of it. And yet, not sure about the JJ vs a higher watt Runt for close to the same price when my only reference is the Runt 20, My BE-OD and the BE100 simulation I have on most of my patches in the AX8. To give you an idea I live in Mastodon, Tool, Dillinger Ecape land with my tone...

I also think that you can get pretty much anything into a DAW with patience and good EQ tweaking. Once your guitar sits in the mix it's anything but natural anyway if you were to hear it in isolation. LOL

 

[skullfxr]

Splawns are great amps, I have a KT88 Nitro, a kt88 Promod and a Quickrod in addition to the Supersport.

The Supersport is 22 watts with 6V6's. Plenty of gain, two gears and OD1/OD2 and cleans. The cleans are good with a slight volume knob rolloff, and the gain is pretty massive.

The only thing that some don't like about Splawn in general is that they are pretty stiff and unforgiving. The SS is less unforgiving than the others in my experience (I literally have all four of my Splawns rigged atm)
The upside is that they cut through the band mix excellently and that Splawns are very solid and reliable. HUGE iron, my older ones are hayboer and my SS is classic tone which isn't bad. Quality stuff on the inside and just an awesome build.

One great thing about the Supersport is that it has a loop master volume in addition to the master on the amp, and it sounds good at moderately quiet levels as well as loud volumes.

I would give one a solid look.

 

[laxu]

I actually find that funny. I feel they are afraid to change the format. Is it still their small box rendition of a real Plexi if you add controls that the original doesn't have? I mean plexus are outrageously loud and in my opinion unappealing at any level that's not full on. I get your point but I guess they have their marketing reasons to sell this product. I actually love all the demos I have seen of it. And it was top of my list. But in the meantime my attention is drifting to something more "usable" in other scenarios.

Egnater! I wonder why we don't hear more of that company. I put them in the same bag with Koch and some others. Super affordable cool amps that do plenty, but somehow fly under people's radars. They are good tools!

Yeah it's definitely hard to please both purists and those who just want something practical. IMO Marshall hasn't made anything relevant since the JVM and Vintage Modern. But there is absolutely no problem building a Plexi sounding amp with modern features including using a master volume.

Egnater is a bit of a sad story. Bruce Egnater is known for his amp building workshops and also for the original modular preamps, now found in the Synergy system. My understanding is that he sold his name to make a more budget friendly line of amps in China something like 10+ years ago. I used to have a Tourmaster head and it was a really cool (but large and heavy!) amp with a lot of forward thinking features not found in anything else at the time. But due to some faulty transformers the Chinese Egnater models initially got a bad rap and I think Bruce Egnater himself is not even involved in the company in any way anymore. Which is why the lineup is exactly the same as they were years ago, nobody designing any new ones. I'm sure they've managed to make them reliable by now though. The manuals are worth a read as they are as good stuff as the ones Mesa makes.

Bruce Egnater seems to be working on some new stuff per his FB page, he's making a 4 channel preamp under his new brand, E3 Audio. Not much more info than a few pics.

 

[laxu]

Runt-50: I can buy this for close the same money as the JJ-Junior but I have been told that it isn't built as well. I do not understand what that means. Apparently the JJ is half handbuilt and this one is not but I have read people complaining about the tube sockets being directly mounted on the board and stuff. I have no idea what that means. I suppose Dave Friedmann is smart and honest enough to not cut too many corners and still deliver a good product. I have heard great things about their customer service.

While it's nice that tubes are mounted on the chassis, mounting them on PCB is really fine as long as it's a quality PCB. I see the Runt series as basically a more budget friendly Friedman BE. Did not like the Runt 20 all that much though, especially the combo was very boxy sounding. But then again I picked my Bogner Goldfinger 45 Superlead over the Friedman BE50 Deluxe too so...

Never played the JJ but it seems well liked.

 

[skullfxr]

The Egnater thing was a bummer. A lot of gamechanging features, but faulty amps and no support to follow. There are pages and pages of issues with Egnater amps and lack of service on forums if you do a quick search.

The JJ Jr. is a great amp and I like the feature set, but I actually liked the Splawn Supersport better which is why I didn't buy the JJ Jr. If you want the recording features I would go with the Friedman if you like the Friedman tone. The Splawn SS is raw and the Friedman is polished sounding just a preference thing.

I also was very disappointed with the Marshall Origin. I could not find one thing that I actually liked about it. Thin and feeble sound. Also just felt cheap. I didn't like the 20 watt plexi and others either tbh. Especially as somene mentioned with no MV. IMO that's pretty much unusable.

Look at the PRS Archon 25 watt model. I thoroughly enjoy mine. Something a little different but it sounds great, good cleans and awesome OD. I swapped the speaker to a Scumback M65 and it REALLY woke up after that. I have never gigged it (COVID etc) but I look forward to doing so.

 

[neurosis]

Yeah it's definitely hard to please both purists and those who just want something practical. IMO Marshall hasn't made anything relevant since the JVM and Vintage Modern. But there is absolutely no problem building a Plexi sounding amp with modern features including using a master volume.

Egnater is a bit of a sad story. Bruce Egnater is known for his amp building workshops and also for the original modular preamps, now found in the Synergy system. My understanding is that he sold his name to make a more budget friendly line of amps in China something like 10+ years ago. I used to have a Tourmaster head and it was a really cool (but large and heavy!) amp with a lot of forward thinking features not found in anything else at the time. But due to some faulty transformers the Chinese Egnater models initially got a bad rap and I think Bruce Egnater himself is not even involved in the company in any way anymore. Which is why the lineup is exactly the same as they were years ago, nobody designing any new ones. I'm sure they've managed to make them reliable by now though. The manuals are worth a read as they are as good stuff as the ones Mesa makes.

Bruce Egnater seems to be working on some new stuff per his FB page, he's making a 4 channel preamp under his new brand, E3 Audio. Not much more info than a few pics.

That's a bummer. Sometimes place and time don't line up for people. Did he register the modular idea? Is that something he can at least claim and live off somehow? I remember the tweaker. It was a nice amp but I am not sure why at the time I also thought his amps were trying to imitate the look of Bogner and tone of Mesa. Complete BS to be honest because time has proven most amps actually look the same. There's not a lot of creativity in that. But I also don't see the point since these things are fairly utilitarian and out of your way tools. It's not like you stand on stage with the amp strapped around your neck.

 

[neurosis]

While it's nice that tubes are mounted on the chassis, mounting them on PCB is really fine as long as it's a quality PCB.

I see the Runt series as basically a more budget friendly Friedman BE. Did not like the Runt 20 all that much though, especially the combo was very boxy sounding. But then again I picked my Bogner Goldfinger 45 Superlead over the Friedman BE50 Deluxe too so...

Never played the JJ but it seems well liked.

Yeah my guess is in the end it comes down to quality control. There's probably a lot of veery expensive amps that are PCB as well and without issue, right? (I have no idea)

That's what I am starting to realize as I read more about the Friedman 20s. They are all tweaked versions of other stuff he's made and I doubt it's a coincidence that many of his products' looks sort of differ in equivalence to some of Marshall's aesthetic choices. But I don't think these heads are all built the same. The Runt seems to be the cheapest for a reason. Maybe the construction isn't as good. I can't say I disliked it. The JJ and Mini Shirley (which have the best reputation from what I gather) are hardwired, right?

I am still toying with the idea of having the Rectoverb. I think it could be a good counter to my Tiny Terror and a step up in build quality and parts. The other option is the JJ Jr. Use the clean channel alone and with pedals for lower volume in the room playing, use it through my Captor X for recording and other tinkering. The Dirty Sherley is the only other 20W that looks interesting. Seems more open and tweak able. I like amps with a bit of bass. I feel it helps listening in the room and can be cut out for recording or tightening–whatever the application. But too boxy or stiff is not nice. I feel the JJ Jr might be stiff like that. A Recto with an overdrive in front would be more tweak able I guess. I'll have to keep looking. I wasn't planning on getting 50W but you know how it is.... you start looking and suddenly you are pondering buying more just in case you need it. But I realistically will not gig in a LOOOOOONG time. If ever again. I just want a head to have fun with in backyard parties at most. The rest of the time I'll be at home and recording.

This video the Rectoverb seems accurate representation of how I remember its vibe:



(see timestamps)

The JJ sounds really good. I am just wondering if it's totally overpriced for what it is and maybe not worth it for a 20 Watts. As you can tell I have my reservations. In this video it is mixed with a bit of a Dillinger Escape Plan vibe (maybe the fact that I know it's the former guitar player is influencing my perception. The tones Ben Weinman got the times I saw them live were a single Recto but this JJ being such a different animal gets that vibe.