Feedback/Interaction with amp when going digital

[l1ll1]

Hey everyone,

in the last year I got really into amp sims and got incredible results with them. I'm using mostly Amplitube and Brainworks stuff, but also Logics internal sims, that can produce amazing sounds with some additional processing.
I even got an Helix Rack for two months (thanks to everyone for their input in the respective thread!!), but to me it wasn't such a step up that I kept it and I much rather switched on my JCM800 or used a plugIn solution... these just worked better for me.
Since I played a lot more with my analog setup, I just noticed one thing missing when using plugIns over my studio speakers and especially headphones:
The interaction with the speakers / strings / pickups. So small amounts of feedbacking, not really full blown. The difference in sustain and overtones is quite noticeable in recordings and since I'm not a fast guitarist its even more exaggerated. I can feel it while strumming a chord and letting it ring out, especially on ERGs (I run mainly a 7, detuned 6, sometimes an 8). Its also funny to see how different latencies when going digital affect this "feedbacking" through monitors.
I know of certain players who record in the control room of studios, that they have a dedicated speaker in front of them for especially this reason.
I also already know that this is physical problem you cant really solve with a digital solution, since it's actual sound waves interacting with strings and a pickup, but maybe someone has tackled this problem before...
Since I'm looking to be travelling for the next 6 months, I wont be able to have an amp with me, just my small recording rig and two small studio speakers in regular appartments.

To clarify: This is not a deal breaker or anything, I'm just really curious if anyone has taken to this question before.

 

[Emperoff]

Yeah, it's not impossible, but much harder than the old fashioned way. Try going digital with IEMs and good luck getting feedback out of that

 

[l1ll1]

Yeah, it's not impossible, but much harder than the old fashioned way. Try going digital with IEMs and good luck getting feedback out of that

Thats why I wrote:

"I also already know that this is physical problem you cant really solve with a digital solution, since it's actual sound waves interacting with strings and a pickup, but maybe someone has tackled this problem before..."

There is Digitech's FreqOut and I was just wondering if anybody else took to this question already – I mean there is somebody out there simulating single condensers and resistors for power amps in Fractal devices, so who knows...

 

[Emperoff]

There is Digitech's FreqOut and I was just wondering if anybody else took to this question already – I mean there is somebody out there simulating single condensers and resistors for power amps in Fractal devices, so who knows...

Pete Thorn uses one live for that very purpose, so can't hurt to try.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Thats why I wrote:

"I also already know that this is physical problem you cant really solve with a digital solution, since it's actual sound waves interacting with strings and a pickup, but maybe someone has tackled this problem before..."

There is Digitech's FreqOut and I was just wondering if anybody else took to this question already – I mean there is somebody out there simulating single condensers and resistors for power amps in Fractal devices, so who knows...

For a while the Freqout was the only pedal I was using with my Fractal stuff, until I went on a dirt pedal binge. I’m a huge Freqout fan and was using one with half-stacks prior to going digital.

It’s not a perfect solution, but it’s a great one and I’ve found a lot of creative uses for the pedal since I’ve had it. I plan on putting one on my FM9’s board as well (AxeFX is in my studio, FM9 is for live playing) even though I run that into 2x12’s. The Freqout won’t do infinite sustain, the string has to be vibrating for it to do it’s thing and it takes a little playing time to/adjusting the pedal to make it sound natural.

FWIW, if I need real feedback in the studio I just move one of my monitors to right in front of the guitar, still works the same way just on a smaller scale.

 

[DarthV]

Just bought a Freqout last week, it's awesome. Wish I had bought one years ago. Is it like 100% natural feedback from an amp/cab? No. But it's awesome to have something that does a fairly good job with modelers at TV volume!

 

[TheWarAgainstTime]

I never could 100% get along with the Freq-Out when I had it, but it's at least the best sounding feedback simulator I've tried. Leon Todd did a video about using a synth block in his FM9 to do a similar thing, but I never got around to trying it when I still had my Axe-FX.

 

[TheRealMikeD]

I play and record with a Kemper, and even though I record straight digital from the Kemper to the interface, I always play through a cabinet for just this reason. Not sure if that helps you with regard to using amp sims/plug-ins. I would look for a way to maybe split the signal and send it out to an amp/speaker. See if you get some pleasing feedback through the amp/pickups, which should theoretically contribute back to the sound of the digital amp. If it doesn't sound that good through the digital amp, you could try sticking a mic in front of the cabinet and blending the signals from the live and digital amps.

Best of luck!

 

[Drew]

For traditional feedback, you need SOME sort of amplification system. In some ways it's no different from generating feedback at low volumes - it's togh to do without making an audible "clunk" but touching the neck of the guitar to your monitor, so the monitor's vibrations carry into the guitar, can work - this is much like doing the same with your cab when you don't have enough in-room volume.

Also, as long as you're ok doing it with an overdub, something like an E-Bow can work too. they're not that expensive and fun to have around anyway for overdubs, though fair warning, they're really designed to work on a clean amp.

 

[Emperoff]

touching the neck of the guitar to your monitor, so the monitor's vibrations carry into the guitar, can work - this is much like doing the same with your cab when you don't have enough in-room volume.

That's a little neat trick I'm taking note right now!

 

[l1ll1]

For traditional feedback, you need SOME sort of amplification system. In some ways it's no different from generating feedback at low volumes - it's togh to do without making an audible "clunk" but touching the neck of the guitar to your monitor, so the monitor's vibrations carry into the guitar, can work - this is much like doing the same with your cab when you don't have enough in-room volume.

Also, as long as you're ok doing it with an overdub, something like an E-Bow can work too. they're not that expensive and fun to have around anyway for overdubs, though fair warning, they're really designed to work on a clean amp.

That tip with the neck touching sth is really good. I used pieces of furniture or tin cans to enhance resonancies before, but just to record acoustic guitars. Also works with placing your foot on a tin can, but has to be the leg that the acoustic guitar is placed on. Thanks!

 

[Drew]

It still needs a moderate amount of volume... but definitely not "traditional feedback" levels. Give it a shot and let me know what you think!

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

This is why I wish all my guitars has sustainiacs. The closest you can get to real feedback without actual volume. Just sucks it's expensive and complicated to install.

Fwiw I tried the freqout but it still wasn't up to snuff for me.