Fender's new high-end modeler; Tone Master Pro

[MatrixClaw]

It's so funny how people's opinions on FRFR differ so wildly. My first FRFR setup with a QSC K-something on stands that I used with my AxeFX Ultra. It was expensive AF and it just sounded like a super HiFi PA system to me. Did not replicate an actual guitars' tone very well unless you were actually looking for that mic'd sound. I wanted the cab sound. I ended up selling the AxeFX setup since I was never satisfied with the live sound vs a real amp.

Years later, I bought an Alto TS112A because I'd heard great things and they were cheap. I think I had a Kemper at the time, could've been an AxeFX 2? I had the same opinions with it as the QSC setup, but I kept it much longer because it was way cheaper and I didn't feel like it was wasted money for the tone I was getting. I ended up selling both of those modelers but kept it as a small vocal PA until I got my FM3 a couple of years ago.

I didn't care for the Alto with the FM3 at all. I much preferred my EHX 22 Caliber into a small Ampeg 1x12 with a V30. I also bought a PowerCab 112+ around the same time and liked it as well. It wasn't as good as the real cab setup, but I could play bass through it and it was way louder.

Haven't tried the Fender ones but I've heard good things. I have an HX Stomp now but I don't use it for modeling, I haven't felt the need when I have several great amps.

 

[budda]

It's so funny how people's opinions on FRFR differ so wildly. My first FRFR setup with a QSC K-something on stands that I used with my AxeFX Ultra. It was expensive AF and it just sounded like a super HiFi PA system to me. Did not replicate an actual guitars' tone very well unless you were actually looking for that mic'd sound. I wanted the cab sound. I ended up selling the AxeFX setup since I was never satisfied with the live sound vs a real amp.

Years later, I bought an Alto TS112A because I'd heard great things and they were cheap. I think I had a Kemper at the time, could've been an AxeFX 2? I had the same opinions with it as the QSC setup, but I kept it much longer because it was way cheaper and I didn't feel like it was wasted money for the tone I was getting. I ended up selling both of those modelers but kept it as a small vocal PA until I got my FM3 a couple of years ago.

I didn't care for the Alto with the FM3 at all. I much preferred my EHX 22 Caliber into a small Ampeg 1x12 with a V30. I also bought a PowerCab 112+ around the same time and liked it as well. It wasn't as good as the real cab setup, but I could play bass through it and it was way louder.

Haven't tried the Fender ones but I've heard good things. I have an HX Stomp now but I don't use it for modeling, I haven't felt the need when I have several great amps.

Given you wanted “amp in the room” sound its no surprise a power amp and IR never sounded right

If you want amp in the room, gotta run amp in the room (power amp and guitar cab).

 

[MatrixClaw]

Given you wanted “amp in the room” sound its no surprise a power amp and IR never sounded right

If you want amp in the room, gotta run amp in the room (power amp and guitar cab).

Yep. This is the crux of all modeling setups to me. The FRFR setup is always convenient. Super light, tons of power and it can support a bass... But the only way I've ever been able to get a sound that actually FEELS right is with a cab and power amp, which kind of defeats the purpose of modeling for me. I don't necessarily care about about a huge selection of amps in them (a Fender, Marshall and 5150 are plenty for me), I want to be able to use different cab setups for different types of tones, without having to have different physical cabs

I think I'd be a whole lot less picky if I was playing live anymore though. At that point, convenience would win over feel, when I probably wouldn't be able to pick up on that anyway in a band setting. However, sitting alone at home, the differences are super noticable to me.

 

[budda]

I feel very fortunate that going from real cab in room to IR is not jarring to me

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

I feel very fortunate that going from real cab in room to IR is not jarring to me

we are a blessed few

 

[trem licking]

Still waiting for them to make IRs that cancel out the mic profile to get a more cab in room sound out of IR/FRFR tech... Revalver had something along these lines and it sounded pretty good. Doesn't seem like it would be impossible to figure out...

 

[Shask]

It's so funny how people's opinions on FRFR differ so wildly. My first FRFR setup with a QSC K-something on stands that I used with my AxeFX Ultra. It was expensive AF and it just sounded like a super HiFi PA system to me. Did not replicate an actual guitars' tone very well unless you were actually looking for that mic'd sound. I wanted the cab sound. I ended up selling the AxeFX setup since I was never satisfied with the live sound vs a real amp.

Years later, I bought an Alto TS112A because I'd heard great things and they were cheap. I think I had a Kemper at the time, could've been an AxeFX 2? I had the same opinions with it as the QSC setup, but I kept it much longer because it was way cheaper and I didn't feel like it was wasted money for the tone I was getting. I ended up selling both of those modelers but kept it as a small vocal PA until I got my FM3 a couple of years ago.

I didn't care for the Alto with the FM3 at all. I much preferred my EHX 22 Caliber into a small Ampeg 1x12 with a V30. I also bought a PowerCab 112+ around the same time and liked it as well. It wasn't as good as the real cab setup, but I could play bass through it and it was way louder.

Haven't tried the Fender ones but I've heard good things. I have an HX Stomp now but I don't use it for modeling, I haven't felt the need when I have several great amps.

I am pretty much the same way, as I think I have discussed many times on here, lol. I try the FRFR thing from time to time, but it always fails compared to good old guitar cabs. I have a good monitor / sub system, but still....

I still think most people who the FRFR thing works for are probably playing lower gain / clean, or need 1000 different tones. Once you get to the point where you mostly play hard rock and metal, is where the difference really stands out, and the FRFR thing just isn't as good.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Guitar cab folks always get so weird about FRFR stuff, but here I am with both and loving it.

 

[Deadpool_25]

@Deadpool_25 what speaker did Liam figure it has again?

@MaxOfMetal oddly i felt the mackie cr4’s i had sounded better than my powercab 112+.

I can't remember and that thread is a monster to search let alone sift through

 

[Shask]

Guitar cab folks always get so weird about FRFR stuff, but here I am with both and loving it.

If it sounded and felt good, I would get behind it, lol.

I would much prefer to have an 8" speaker instead of 412 cabs if they produced comparable results.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

If it sounded and felt good, I would get behind it, lol.

I would much prefer to have an 8" speaker instead of 412 cabs if they produced comparable results.

I doubt that's ever going to be the case, at least a single 8". The 8" speaker array system PJB uses does deliver the goods for bass though, but they're pretty pricey and boutique still. So the potential is there.

I don't think anything smaller than a 12" as the main driver is ideal for low, distorted guitar, barring some really unique stuff that, again, tends to be more on the expensive side.

That's sort of why I like the 2x12" Powercab, it sort of bridges the gap between where single 12" and single 15" go off. It's not perfect, but if I had to buy a guitar focused FRFR tomorrow that's probably what I'd choose if PA stuff was off the table.

No one has really conquered the big PA system makes yet. Line 6 is closest, and the big stupid Laney I've bitched about is close too, but you'd think FMIC, who used to make a ton of PA gear would be eating everyone else's lunch.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Meh, the feel of a speaker cab ceases to matter once you’re on in-ears anyways. I like the idea of the guy between the mains hearing pretty close to the same thing everyone else is, and it’s all going to sound the same to me no matter where I am on stage.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

I'm about to revive the unpopular gear opinion thread just to say cab feel is overrated

 

[Shask]

I doubt that's ever going to be the case, at least a single 8". The 8" speaker array system PJB uses does deliver the goods for bass though, but they're pretty pricey and boutique still. So the potential is there.

I don't think anything smaller than a 12" as the main driver is ideal for low, distorted guitar, barring some really unique stuff that, again, tends to be more on the expensive side.

That's sort of why I like the 2x12" Powercab, it sort of bridges the gap between where single 12" and single 15" go off. It's not perfect, but if I had to buy a guitar focused FRFR tomorrow that's probably what I'd choose if PA stuff was off the table.

No one has really conquered the big PA system makes yet. Line 6 is closest, and the big stupid Laney I've bitched about is close too, but you'd think FMIC, who used to make a ton of PA gear would be eating everyone else's lunch.

I just think it is time to move on to a new technology. The IR is limited. It is based on listening to the tone of a speaker through a microphone. We need a new method that is some sort of mathematical physical modeling of the dynamics, movement, frequency, etc... of what a speaker cabinet does.

 

[Shask]

Meh, the feel of a speaker cab ceases to matter once you’re on in-ears anyways. I like the idea of the guy between the mains hearing pretty close to the same thing everyone else is, and it’s all going to sound the same to me no matter where I am on stage.

Considering most people are not using in-ears when they play guitar, I dont think that is the opinion of most people. All the people playing at home in their bedrooms are not using in-ears.

 

[Shask]

I'm about to revive the unpopular gear opinion thread just to say cab feel is overrated

Only to those who dont know what they are missing because they grew up on playing amp plugins.

 

[budda]

Only to those who dont know what they are missing because they grew up on playing amp plugins.

I grew up with real amps and i agree with him (show of hands, who saw this reply coming a mile away besides shask?)

 

[RevDrucifer]

While I prefer playing through a regular cab, I’ve been hearing amps through studio monitors for so long, writing/recording that way that it doesn’t prevent me from being creative in any way to play through an IR instead of a cab.

It’s like if someone asked me, “Hey, want some tacos?” Fuck yeah I do. But if someone said “Ya want crema on the tacos?” Fuck yeah, I want that more than just regular tacos, but it’s not going to ruin them if I don’t have the crema.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Considering most people are not using in-ears when they play guitar, I dont think that is the opinion of most people. All the people playing at home in their bedrooms are not using in-ears.

You're probably right, I honestly don't consider bedroom shredders much at all when I'm thinking/talking about gear. Probably 3/4 of the bands we play with even at the local level are on IEMs at this point, so it's a pretty reasonable thing to consider "in the real world".

Only to those who dont know what they are missing because they grew up on playing amp plugins.

Spent the first 15 years of my playing life with 2x12s and half-stacks and 100W tube heads, solid state heads, etc. I don't miss it at all in 99% of situations, and the 1% would be shit anyways because the room/stage/PA whatever is garbage and everything sounds like shit, so MOAR TOAN wouldn't help anyways.

 

[Shask]

I grew up with real amps and i agree with him (show of hands, who saw this reply coming a mile away besides shask?)

You're probably right, I honestly don't consider bedroom shredders much at all when I'm thinking/talking about gear. Probably 3/4 of the bands we play with even at the local level are on IEMs at this point, so it's a pretty reasonable thing to consider "in the real world".

Spent the first 15 years of my playing life with 2x12s and half-stacks and 100W tube heads, solid state heads, etc. I don't miss it at all in 99% of situations, and the 1% would be shit anyways because the room/stage/PA whatever is garbage and everything sounds like shit, so MOAR TOAN wouldn't help anyways.

So, tell me, if you had NO restrictions. Space, volume, money, etc.... would you prefer to play through 2 halfstacks, or through IEMs?

I think where I always question it, is because there is always a condition of "well, in this situation" or, "for the money", or "portability".etc... There is always a compromise vs. what you would really do if there were no restrictions.