GAS strikes again - dilemma

[4Eyes]

Hello gents, I have kind of a dilemma - in my journey for silent playing solution I've went through small 1W tube into reactive load + IR loader, with ported 112 cab for occasional jamming, then in some weak minded moment I sold the gear and I went through the plugin route. Then GAS stroked again and I've built a pedal board to cover all the base tones I use - without amp, computer independent and also avoiding modellers. For amp like tones I now use KSR Ceres with Two notes Opus (Power amp sim + DynIR cabs), which sound and feel great through studio monitors, especially with a sub. Ceres delivers these boosted amp type of sounds bright/feel/mode switches offer lots of options to shape the sound. Other pedals on board - Sonic Research Turbo Tuner, TC Spark mini, Chase Bliss Thermae, Chase Bliss Dark World

Now, I have another strike of GAS and I think of getting real glass + cab again. Mostly because of the sentiment, for the "cool factor", for having a reference of good tone and option to be able to gig/jam with others if that happens. The thing is that I like the sound and portability of my current pedalboard setup (Pedaltrain Metro 16), but for the sake of silent/fly/quick practice rig I could live with the Opus only. Cab would be probably some kind of ported 112 or 212, but is not a priority at the moment, for silent situation I would use reactive load of some kind, but I can't decide what route to go for the amp, except for waiting till GAS passes and getting some kind of FRFR cab when I'll need to play live, I have couple of options in mind:
• KSR PA50/25 to pair with Ceres - hard to get new in EU, almost impossible to find on used market here, but seems to be the wisest option, when I'll have another week moment and I'll consider selling the gear again. But for sure it'll lack "the cool factor" of the amp head
• Sell Ceres + Dark World (since Opus has midi it can cover most of the basic reverb sounds of DW) to fund modded SloClone build - either complete DIY or using some kit - this would the most fun option indeed and kind of dream come true moment for me (Lego for musicians + I have a close friend who builds, mods and repairs tube amps, who would guide me and help me with the build). This type of circuit + 808 is my holy grail of tone, but this is the least wise option from the resale point of view, as well
• Sell Ceres + DW to fund some amp head purchase - kind of "but why?" option - preference would be compact size, 6L6, SLO based, built well (chassis mounted pots and tube sockets, as less ribbon cables as possible..), easy to repair - not many options left within the budget and just getting whatever affordable tube amp just for sake of glowing glass, when I'm pretty happy with what I have currently is not the way I think
• Don't sell anyting, or maybe just DW to fund DIY tube mono poweramp build in a head shell chassis, with similar features like KSR PA50/25..with potential to mod it to full amp, if I'll have a feeling that I miss something with Ceres into tube power amp

..no I don't want a modeler - I have amp sims covered via plugins and I don't see a point of getting one at the moment for my situation. There is no added benefit compared to my pedalboard thing as far as I see it and for the tones I use.

 

[Kosthrash]

The Engl Fireball 25 has 6L6 power tubes & it's small head, but not close to the slo. Perhaps a 5150 iconic head 80w is an option? But again it's a full size head...
Jet city has an 5LO 20 Head, but I belive has the el84 tubes.

 

[Kosthrash]

Double post, sorry...

 

[budda]

Just dont buy anything.

The day you need a head and cab to go jam, borrow or rent something. If that becomes regular, theeen buy something.

Just because one has GAS doesnt mean they have to buy anything at that moment. You’ll get it again later, deals will come up later.

 

[Emperoff]

Your post is kinda (not so) silently asking for this:

https://reverb.com/es/item/79043036-ksr-amplification-orion-45-2024

The sound you like and the poweramp you want, all in a compact and lightweight package.

 

[Rev2010]

Just dont buy anything.

The day you need a head and cab to go jam, borrow or rent something. If that becomes regular, theeen buy something.

Just because one has GAS doesnt mean they have to buy anything at that moment. You’ll get it again later, deals will come up later.

I wholeheartedly agree with this

 

[4Eyes]

Just dont buy anything.

The day you need a head and cab to go jam, borrow or rent something. If that becomes regular, theeen buy something.

Just because one has GAS doesnt mean they have to buy anything at that moment. You’ll get it again later, deals will come up later.

probably the best piece of advice I could ask for, but


on the more serious note, though. I agree with you, I try to be pragmatic about my gear, but getting a tube amp, for sake of owning one, will be on the list, I'll maybe save it for some bigger occasion, when I feel the need to treat myself (like 40th bd next year)..but If I was applying "do I really need it?" logic to everything I'd stuck with one guitar, entry level audio interface and pair of headphones

Your post is kinda (not so) silently asking for this:

https://reverb.com/es/item/79043036-ksr-amplification-orion-45-2024

The sound you like and the poweramp you want, all in a compact and lightweight package.

yeah, kind of...maybe...but that would raise a question with me, that why just don't get the PA50/25?

posting this thread was not about getting suggestions what amp to get - I can look around the shops and youtube on my own - preference would be Slo-ish/Recto as they have some sort of iconic status in my view. it's rather to get others people views on this "model situation". If I wanted to keep things simple, I'd be happy with some kind of modern amp sim plugi, call it a day and shift my GAS focus to getting another instrument

 

[budda]

Man I have two marshall halfstacks in my basement, and once my paternity leave is up they will barely get turned on for a year or two. But I have them, can use them, and will use them. So I get it

 

[Shask]

What about something like the Friedman IR-X, or maybe a Synergy Syn1 with a SLO or DRECT module?

 

[ATRguitar91]

My suggestion is to get a poweramp and a cab to pair with your Ceres. Most of the time when people miss the "amp in the room" feel, they're really just missing the sound of a guitar cab.

That way you have an option that isn't IRs into monitors or headphones, and if you go with something solid state, it'll manage very low volumes. This will be easily expandable too if your needs change in the future.

I'm partial to these little Hifi amps with a banana plug to 1/4 adapter. Sounds awesome (if you have poweramp modelling or some post eq), are dirt cheap, and are tiny so they can go on a pedalboard. And it's always good to have a decent guitar cab on hand

 

[Emperoff]

yeah, kind of...maybe...but that would raise a question with me, that why just don't get the PA50/25?

Oh, that's easy:

- The PA50 form factor is stupid. It can't be rackmounted, nor fits in a pedalboard. So you can only have it sitting on top of something. Like... you know... a compact amp head.

- The cleans on the Ceres absolutely blow. I know because I own one.

- The Orion is basically a Ceres with the PA50 power section, but with a proper clean channel and an extra crunch channel. With the ability to turn it into a more recto-ish thing lowerting the negative feedback knob.

- The Orion is an all-tube amp, whereas the Ceres is a SS preamp (if you care about that). Youtubers say the Ceres feels very "amp-like", but I strongly disagree. It sounds great for sure, but to me the feel is not quite there.

- The PA50 is 1k already. Selling the Ceres you'd be very close to the cost of the Orion. And you'll free some pedalboard space.

- An amp head is self-sufficient should you want to carry it around. A poweramp is not.

- The Orion looks cool as hell and can be customized if you're into that sort of thing.

 

[Shask]

Oh, that's easy:

- The PA50 form factor is stupid. It can't be rackmounted, nor fits in a pedalboard. So you can only have it sitting on top of something. Like... you know... a compact amp head.

- The cleans on the Ceres absolutely blow. I know because I own one.

- The Orion is basically a Ceres with the PA50 power section, but with a proper clean channel and an extra crunch channel. With the ability to turn it into a more recto-ish thing lowerting the negative feedback knob.

- The Orion is an all-tube amp, whereas the Ceres is a SS preamp (if you care about that). Youtubers say the Ceres feels very "amp-like", but I strongly disagree. It sounds great for sure, but to me the feel is not quite there.

- The PA50 is 1k already. Selling the Ceres you'd be very close to the cost of the Orion. And you'll free some pedalboard space.

- An amp head is self-sufficient should you want to carry it around. A poweramp is not.

- The Orion looks cool as hell and can be customized if you're into that sort of thing.

KSR really needs to make rack mounted power amps also. I agree that lunch box size looks stupid, and there is a big gap in available rack tube power amps these days.

There are days when I definitely invision just going with an Axe III and a Freyette LXII.

 

[4Eyes]

What about something like the Friedman IR-X, or maybe a Synergy Syn1 with a SLO or DRECT module?

- I'm not sure what benefit I would get going this route. Nevertheless, my first thought, when Friedman IR-X was announced, was - I wish it was released before I got Ceres+CabM
- speaking of the modules, it's cool concept for sure, just not for me. I'm one type of sound kind of guy and just getting Syn1 with one module is not very smart move - financially. Anyway, my only experience with the module stuff is with the 12 module Randall monstrosity full of Salvation mods modules. I had the opportunity to compare side by side some of the modules vs their real counterparts...modules were kinda meh compared to actual amp head.

Oh, that's easy:

- The PA50 form factor is stupid. It can't be rackmounted, nor fits in a pedalboard. So you can only have it sitting on top of something. Like... you know... a compact amp head.

speaking of form factor I share your feelings about the PA50, on the other hand Orion in my eyes falls into the same ball park.

- The cleans on the Ceres absolutely blow. I know because I own one.

cleans who cares? I mean I have no issue with the stock clean channel on the Ceres, I can live with running either of the Rh/Ld channels in the Crunch mode, coil split pickups, or by running the crunch tone and rolling down volume knob on the guitar. add some nice, big ambient reverb and I'm happy.

- The Orion is basically a Ceres with the PA50 power section, but with a proper clean channel and an extra crunch channel. With the ability to turn it into a more recto-ish thing lowerting the negative feedback knob.

yeaaaaah, but that's not kind of argument to favour one over the other in my view.

- The Orion is an all-tube amp, whereas the Ceres is a SS preamp (if you care about that). Youtubers say the Ceres feels very "amp-like", but I strongly disagree. It sounds great for sure, but to me the feel is not quite there.

+ points for the tubes. Ceres feels better than plugins for sure, but I agree it didn't nail the juiciness on the palm mutes of the tube amp, although it nailed that "boosted higain amp" type of sound

- The PA50 is 1k already. Selling the Ceres you'd be very close to the cost of the Orion. And you'll free some pedalboard space.

Mhm, that's kind of dilemma I have - if I'll have additional 1k +/- to dump into this hobby, I could fund SloClone kit and have both board with amp like tones which I can run directly without the amp + glowing glass with holy grail hi gain tone.

- An amp head is self-sufficient should you want to carry it around. A poweramp is not.

That was the requirement with which I've put my current board together

- The Orion looks cool as hell and can be customized if you're into that sort of thing.

If I was going to spend that kind of money on the KSR amp I'd probably pick Ares over the Orion, covers most of the same bases and ticks the "look of the actual amp head" box for me

don't take it that I'm overly fixating to PA thing or I need to argue with you, I'm just overthinking and need to justify every option.

That way you have an option that isn't IRs into monitors or headphones, and if you go with something solid state, it'll manage very low volumes. This will be easily expandable too if your needs change in the future.

The problem which I have with this is, that guitar speakers at low TV volume (think of the volume levels to not distract neighbours and family in the apartment building at night) tend to sound like shit just because they are not driven hard enough to move the cone properly - but maybe I just need to revisit this option again to refresh my memory.

Another sort of dilemma which I need to sort out for my is what kind of benefit and sense of realness I would get in the scenarios I've mentioned compared to my current setup:
- Ceres into tube amp into small cab
- Ceres into tube amp + reactive load + IR
- boosted higain amp into small cab
- boosted higain amp + reactive load + IR

In my weak minded moment which I've mentioned in OP compared Neural SLO plugin head to head against tube amp (ts808 + moded SLO circuit with 1W PP tube poweramp) into reactive load into IRs and I was able to get close enough tones and feel to justify the option to sell the tube amp. As I mentioned, sound is there, feel almost - plugins, but also ceres lack this kind of juiciness of the tubes which cause that you can actually run gain lower, bust stil get juicy chugs, resulting in the clearer tone. Ceres is close, just need to find out if close enough, same, or the overall juicy feels is just caused by running the amp through the cab and this sort of quality is removed when I'll throw an IR in there.

 

[budda]

(Fm3+ fender fr10 with archangel v2 pre) what about something that lets you adjust the parameters that will let you get a better feel at the low volumes? Portable, quiet to loud, if theres a sound you want its most likely in there.

Seems the next fastest way to the setup you want, next to amp-cab.

 

[Kosthrash]

PRS MT-15 is another juicy lunchbox amp!!!

 

[ATRguitar91]

The problem which I have with this is, that guitar speakers at low TV volume (think of the volume levels to not distract neighbours and family in the apartment building at night) tend to sound like shit just because they are not driven hard enough to move the cone properly - but maybe I just need to revisit this option again to refresh my memory

In my experience, this isn't true. I've got 2 412s sitting on the floor, and they sound great to me at volumes where I don't disturb the sleeping kids upstairs. This is with a solid state poweramp and my HX Stomp or preamp pedals (Ceres included). Sure it sounds better cranked, but I don't mind it at low volumes at all.

I don't think there's any point in running a tube amp into a reactive load and then IRs. In ABs I can't really tell a difference, especially in a mix, and I get great feel from my preamp pedals and modeling. Also seems a little goofy to run the Ceres into a tube amp and cab. Feel like the point would be to replace the Ceres.

 

[Emperoff]

Don't take it that I'm overly fixating to PA thing or I need to argue with you, I'm just overthinking and need to justify every option.

Hey, I'm not the one buying!

But to be honest, this thread is kinda starting to look like your average "I already know what I want, but I want validation to pull the trigger" disguised as a "I want your opinions" thread. You've been presented already with way better options than those you're considering, but don't seem interested.

So just buy what you know you want and have fun. Life's too short to run in circles!

 

[Shask]

- I'm not sure what benefit I would get going this route. Nevertheless, my first thought, when Friedman IR-X was announced, was - I wish it was released before I got Ceres+CabM
- speaking of the modules, it's cool concept for sure, just not for me. I'm one type of sound kind of guy and just getting Syn1 with one module is not very smart move - financially. Anyway, my only experience with the module stuff is with the 12 module Randall monstrosity full of Salvation mods modules. I had the opportunity to compare side by side some of the modules vs their real counterparts...modules were kinda meh

You gain that tube feel and dynamics

Yeah, I am basically a one sound person also. However, this week it is a Recto sound, next week it is a IIC+ sound, next month it is a SLO sound, etc.... I don't worry about switching all these sounds at once, but it a nice option as your mood changes over time.

 

[4Eyes]

I don't think there's any point in running a tube amp into a reactive load and then IRs.

IMHO this is the best of both worlds if one wants to play through tube amp and enjoy great sound and feel, but don't want to bother anyone with pushing the air by big speakers or need to play completely silent.

But to be honest, this thread is kinda starting to look like your average "I already know what I want, but I want validation to pull the trigger" disguised as a "I want your opinions" thread. You've been presented already with way better options than those you're considering, but don't seem interested.

yeah, I'm guilty

So just buy what you know you want and have fun. Life's too short to run in circles!

I think we all agree that second best option (after not buying anything) is to get the amp - there are plenty f great options to choose from...

 

[ATRguitar91]

enjoy great sound and feel

I'm in the minority on this clearly, but I don't think you need tubes for good sound and feel, especially with high gain stuff. I think as a community, guitarists have placeboed themselves into thinking tubes are some mystical thing when they're just another tool. I'm not saying tube amps don't sound great, they do, but so do lots of other things.

I used to be a huge tube snob and resisted solid state and digital, dragging my heavy 6505 all over the place. Then I got an Amptweaker Tight Metal Pro and realized solid state has all the tone and feel goodies you could ever need. After that, I got an HX Stomp and sold my precious FJA modded 6505 that I thought I'd take to my grave.