Help getting Meshuggah Guitar Tone

[stalenhag666]

Hey all,
I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to gear so all I can do is try to perfect my technique when it comes to replicating Meshuggah's guitar tone. My amp is a EVH 5150iii 50w, which I don't think Meshuggah uses as they typically use Mesa Boogies or just use a virtual amp. I find that the blue channel is very far away from what I need, and it's also oddly very bassy. The red channel is very good but has a very loud buzz which can't be fixed with my noise gate pedal (isp decimator 2). Besides from the amp and pedal I have a jackson 8 string dinky. Anything I can do with the amp settings or pedal to achieve something close to Meshuggah's sound? I'd preferably emulate their sound on obZen since I play the songs off that album most of the time, but anything is fine. I'm just really annoyed by the red channel's loud buzzing and the blue channel's overt bassiness that swallows up all the clarity of the notes. Thanks guys

 

[Hollowway]

@Deadpool_25 knows more about EVH 5153s than anyone, so maybe he has some tips?

 

[lattjeful]

It's different from the Obzen tone, but their last record was a Horizon Precision Drive going into a 5150iii. If you can't grab a PD, a Tube Screamer should get you close enough. Speaker type is important too. Don't quote me on it, but I think a Celestion G12T-75 were what they used on some records. There's also the good ol' Celestion V30 for all your metal needs.

If you don't want to spend money, sit down and redial the amp. Important thing for the whole djent stuff is mids, mids, and more mids. And use less gain than you think you need to. Try bass at noon, mids at 1:00, treble at noon, and presence at 11:00 as a starting point for your 8 string and go from there. The most important thing to recognize when you're dialing this in though is that the studio tone is a combination of the guitar tone, the bass tone, and a shit ton of production work. It will not sound the same as your amp. Regardless, a 5150iii should do the djent thing all day. It's plenty tight and plenty saturated.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Sounds like you might need a retube or something if the red channel is that annoying. But yeah, the last Meshuggah record was actually EVH 5153. You need a boost or EQ pedal with some exaggerated settings to get that sound. Can start off with a Tubescreamer or TS copy with the tone set very high (Or outright dimed), or get some kinda EQ pedal with a curve set similar to this

 

[Robslalaina]

Like @lattjeful said, studio tone is always the result of quite a few things happening at the same time. Look at this for instance. Two rhythm tracks with a different frequency focus (there's probably more tracks in the album version of that song), same kind of deal with the bass. You need to cut those lower frequencies for definition like the EQ advice above, but, doing so, you won't necessarily have the rumble/growl you associate with their studio tone since the bass is involved in that end result.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Also to me Obzen sounds pretty scooped compared to other 8-string era Meshuggah tones. So maybe dial back the mids on the amp a smidge and dial in more treble/presence

 

[Deadpool_25]

The red channels on the 5153s can be pretty noisy/feedback-y if the gain is higher than about 9:00 or 10:00 so make sure you aren't using too much gain.

I still have a Precision Drive and still think it's great for the djenty stuff. That gate can be super handy and the attack knob cuts lows quite well. I'd second that suggestion as well as pointing out that an EQ pedal like Mr. Jazzyhands suggested is also a great alternative. Put it in front of the amp. It doesn't have a gate like the PD but is more versatile in terms of dialing in a tone. Hell, use both at the same time.

What is the resonance on the back of the amp set at? What cab/speakers are you using? Those can definitely have a massive effect on your tone.

Also, I'd probably dial the mids on the amp back a bit. The entire line of 5150 amps is fairly mid heavy so although djent can be pretty midsy you don't necessarily need to add more in many cases.

When I'm struggling with dialing in a tone I sometimes find it helpful to turn all the knobs to zero, then add them back in starting with high, then mid, then presence, then bass then resonance. Then go back and fine tune as needed. I can usually get something decently close to my target like that without even using any drive pedal.

For the 5153s if I'm dead set on using a drive pedal, I'll typically start with gain at 9:00 (on either blue or red) bass and treble at noon, mids off. I turn the drive pedal on with volume cranked (noon on the PD--I don't often need to go higher on that pedal) and no drive. tone in the middle. That's just a starting point though lol.

In any event, if possible, get it close-ish and then just play. There is so much that goes into a final recorded tone that it can be nearly impossible to replicate perfectly. And as @lattjeful said the bass absolutely affects how we perceive guitar tones in a mix.

 

[stalenhag666]

Hey thanks for the suggestions everyone. From what I gather it would be very helpful to get one of these precision drives, which I didn't even know had a gate... I wonder how useful my decimator is in that case... I might try to refund it (i didn't buy it too long ago) and try to get one of these PD's. @Deadpool_25 , my resonance is set at noon because I honestly didn't even know what it did so I just set it at noon. I turned all my other knobs to @lattjeful suggestion, but seeing as how many of you are saying to dial back the mids I did that as well. It's sounding pretty good. On the retubing issue, I thought it was that, but I tried again today and it didn't have as nearly as loud of a hum as when I posted my original post. So I assume the connection must've been shoddy or something, or maybe my pedal was getting screwed up. But it seems fine... for now. It's a 5 year old amp I believe. My cab is a PRS 2x12. All in all, I'm going to look into getting a precision drive, and I think the rest is up to my technique. I mainly struggle with those hammer-on/pull-off songs like Combustion and Pravus... the open strings after getting pulled off will just hum loudly and swallow up the definition of the other picked notes. But maybe that's a technique thing. Anyway, thank you for all your replies!

 

[Deadpool_25]

The Decimator, like pretty much any decent gate including the one on the PD, should be good at eliminating some noise while not playing. once you start playing or even just moving you fingers on the strings the gate will open and let everything through including unwanted noise.

Resonance is kinda like a bass knob that works on even lower frequencies than the normal bass knob.

That last sentence makes me think you may need to work on your string muting. Actively muting unplayed strings is just as important as playing the strings you want. And muting strings is actually more difficult than playing them in my experience. Maybe look up a few videos on muting unplayed strings. Ben Eller has a good one.

Again I want to talk about gain though. We metal folks often like to crank it up but often you need (and actually want) less than you think. If you have the gain above noon on the red channel it can be incredibly tough to tame noise and feedback. If it gets up over 2:00....forget it. At that point it's an unruly beast that refuses to be tamed.

 

[Blahblahblahblah]

It's different from the Obzen tone, but their last record was a Horizon Precision Drive going into a 5150iii. If you can't grab a PD, a Tube Screamer should get you close enough. Speaker type is important too. Don't quote me on it, but I think a Celestion G12T-75 were what they used on some records. There's also the good ol' Celestion V30 for all your metal needs.

If you don't want to spend money, sit down and redial the amp. Important thing for the whole djent stuff is mids, mids, and more mids. And use less gain than you think you need to. Try bass at noon, mids at 1:00, treble at noon, and presence at 11:00 as a starting point for your 8 string and go from there. The most important thing to recognize when you're dialing this in though is that the studio tone is a combination of the guitar tone, the bass tone, and a shit ton of production work. It will not sound the same as your amp. Regardless, a 5150iii should do the djent thing all day. It's plenty tight and plenty saturated.

Red channel, I assume?

 

[Werecow]

Red channel, I assume?

It was actually the blue channel of the standard 100w head, but then the preamp run into the power amp of a Mesa Roadster for some reason.

 

[j3ps3]

Even though they themselves use shorter scale guitars nowadays I'm still gonna say that the longer scale length combined with the pickup very close to the bridge is what helps the most when trying to get that Meshuggah sound.

 

[stalenhag666]

Hey everyone, I went to the guitar store with my 8 string and asked to try out a bunch of pedals with the 5153 (exact same one i have at home). I tried a tube screamer, equalizer, a proco rat overdrive and a compressor pedal. One question that I have now: am I supposed to be on the blue channel or the red channel? Because the red channel is already overdriven so there's not really a point to using an overdrive pedal there. Because of that, I tested out the overdrive pedals on the blue channel, and i tested out the compressor and equalizer on the red channel. I still am not quite sure what would be better for me. I think the main issue I'm having is that my pull-off notes are swallowed up by the droning resonance of the open strings, which deadpool mentioned is more of a technique thing by muting them. I'm just not sure how these Meshuggah guys are able to pull-off and mute these strings at like 130bpm!!! But that's why I tried a compressor pedal, because I thought it would even out the sound between the notes and make it sound like I'm alternate picking them instead of pulling off. No luck with that. But yeah, I'm thinking I should go back one more time and really take my time with each of these. Precision Drives are not found anywhere where I live so I'm gonna cross that off the list.

 

[Robslalaina]

One question that I have now: am I supposed to be on the blue channel or the red channel? Because the red channel is already overdriven so there's not really a point to using an overdrive pedal there.

The OD pedal into the amp is not so much about bringing overdrive/gain, but for clarity. Which is why you keep the drive setting very low/at zero and turn the tone setting toward more treble.

 

[Werecow]

Hey everyone, I went to the guitar store with my 8 string and asked to try out a bunch of pedals with the 5153 (exact same one i have at home). I tried a tube screamer, equalizer, a proco rat overdrive and a compressor pedal. One question that I have now: am I supposed to be on the blue channel or the red channel? Because the red channel is already overdriven so there's not really a point to using an overdrive pedal there. Because of that, I tested out the overdrive pedals on the blue channel, and i tested out the compressor and equalizer on the red channel. I still am not quite sure what would be better for me. I think the main issue I'm having is that my pull-off notes are swallowed up by the droning resonance of the open strings, which deadpool mentioned is more of a technique thing by muting them. I'm just not sure how these Meshuggah guys are able to pull-off and mute these strings at like 130bpm!!! But that's why I tried a compressor pedal, because I thought it would even out the sound between the notes and make it sound like I'm alternate picking them instead of pulling off. No luck with that. But yeah, I'm thinking I should go back one more time and really take my time with each of these. Precision Drives are not found anywhere where I live so I'm gonna cross that off the list.

I was just stating what channel they used on the album. Recording (with multiple guitar tracks) is a different beast than just playing for you / live, so experiment and use whatever works for you. Meshuggah have used many different amps, both tube and modelling, so i don't think it's incredibly important in the grand scheme of things which of the two channels you choose.
As Robslalaina said above, boost pedals in metal like this are more for flavour, and also the feel and punch of the palm mutes. It's not about adding gain in any way.

 

[stalenhag666]

@Werecow right, I saw what you were saying about what Meshuggah used. But what I was asking in that latest post was just which channel to use in general, because I kind of get confused over which pedals should be used for what, but after reading what everyone's saying about using drive pedals to increase clarity/definition, I think people are just talking about using the red channel (even though Meshuggah was using the blue channel on Immutable). What I'm gathering here is that when using the 5153 (for metal) people will just use the red channel with drive pedals to get a better tone rather than using the blue channel and letting the pedal provide the distortion.

 

[Deadpool_25]

The blue channel can do metal just fine as well.

Dial in a tone that's decent on the amp and start with that. Then, as has been said for your overdrive pedal, turn the gain/drive all the way down; turn the volume/level all the way up. And turn that on and off while playing to get a feel for what it's doing to the tone. Typically it will tighten and clarify the low end a bit, and perhaps give a little mid boost. After you play it that way a a bit you can mess with knobs a bit more as the mood strikes you.

 

[Deadpool_25]

Periphery has been described as a Meshuggah ripoff (by Misha lol) so maybe use this as a starting point.

 

[Werecow]

@Werecow right, I saw what you were saying about what Meshuggah used. But what I was asking in that latest post was just which channel to use in general, because I kind of get confused over which pedals should be used for what, but after reading what everyone's saying about using drive pedals to increase clarity/definition, I think people are just talking about using the red channel (even though Meshuggah was using the blue channel on Immutable). What I'm gathering here is that when using the 5153 (for metal) people will just use the red channel with drive pedals to get a better tone rather than using the blue channel and letting the pedal provide the distortion.

I use the blue channel and the red channel for metal, it just depends what i'm in the mood for, or the sound i'm going for. For example... Because i've got the 50w 6L6, the blue channel on it has a more 80's thrashy Marshall mids vibe going on, so i'll choose it just for that characteristic sometimes.
Give both channels a go with and without boosts, and see what you think of it. The red channel will need a lot less amp gain dialed in, and a lot of people prefer the red channel without a boost, but for Meshuggah tones the EQ shaping you get from a pedal going in to it might be just right.

Remember, most people don't use boosts to increase gain, they'll factor the boost in to the tone and feel they want combined with the gain from the amp. So the idea behind getting more clarity is that the amp is running less gain than you'd normally have dialed in (going straight in), and the boost also then brings back that feeling in the palm mutes you'd get from the amp running that higher amount of gain.

 

[Kosthrash]

You may try the Joyo Argos pedal in front of your amp.