help: most thick and aggresive tube amp at bedroom volume

[USMarine75]

i ve got a custom 2x12 with electovoice + v30 so its a thick sound. I m not able to test any VH4 near my home , that´s the problem...i´m afraid that the VH4 has the same "problem" as the einstein , d moll and herbert, that a low volume they sound as they have some kind of "towel ( or something like that haha ) hidding the highs" darkening the sound...

That's literally what the presence and resonance/depth/deep controls are for.

Modern channel switching master volume amps sound nearly* the same until the get to around MV of 7+ (then the power tubes will start to distort and they start to sound increasingly bad).

*They do get a little more naturally compressed as they get louder.

What you are hearing has to do with the speaker cone travel. At lowest volume settings you can't drive the speaker cone excursion properly. That is what the presence and resonance controls add back to the tone. They are designed to add to low volume applications, or to assist with speaker and cabinet mismatches.

This is why I mentioned headphones or a 210 speaker cab. Smaller speakers will have a smaller surround that travels properly with the lower signal/voltage. You'll actually get some thump while reproducing the sound more accurately at lower volumes. The trade off is that as you increase the volume to normal guitar playing volumes and not apartment level, you will lose fidelity.

 

[cardinal]

i ve got a custom 2x12 with electovoice + v30 so its a thick sound. I m not able to test any VH4 near my home , that´s the problem...i´m afraid that the VH4 has the same "problem" as the einstein , d moll and herbert, that a low volume they sound as they have some kind of "towel ( or something like that haha ) hidding the highs" darkening the sound...

I've had a few VH4s from various years, including a '90s blueface. The earlier versions really did struggle at low volumes. Towel over them is a good description. Just kinda flat at lower volumes. But in 2007 and after, whatever tweak Diezel made seemed to sort that out. Those amps sounded killer in my apartment at the time. I am still so pissed I traded that amp for an Axe FX rig. The 2007 VH4 sounded better at low volumes than that stupid thing.

 

[Musiscience]

The Archon is possibly the best high gain monster at low volumes. It's like opening up a recto at loud volumes (but sounds better than a recto). It has zero fizz (as long as you don't overdo it with the gain knob), unlike most high gain amps at bedroom levels. It's tight and thick at the same time. Pair it with a Mesa recto 2x12, and you're golden! Seriously, it's like the 5150 and Uberschall had a love child. It's super easy to dial in too!

Another thing, this might not be important to you, but the Archon has some of the best cleans in existence!

I can't recommend the Archon enough. If it's only for bedroom, you can pick up a used 25 or 50 combo and get a thick, dark and brutal tone at very low volumes. You can sometimes find the 25 watt version for $800 if you're lucky. The clean channel is also terrifyingly good. You play Jazz and vintage cleans and it rules. You want to pull out a telecaster and chiken pick? No problem, just flip the bright switch and you have a sparkly and very clear clean tone. Same goes for the lead channel if you want a brighter tone at some point in your life.

Best of all, is that it sounds great with everything at 12. No headache, easy to set, 2 channel fire breathing monster.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

what do you think about RNR sound SL/RD preamp ? have you heard anything about it? it´s supposed to be an improved mesa boogie sound, way more tight and aggresive but with the mesa low mid flavour.

I liked the one I had. Was def in that early Recto ballpark. Not as fizzy or muddy as later Rectos. It's not surgically tight like a dialed-in Mark series, but it isn't 3-channel Recto muddy either. It's kind of like a Recto, SLO, and 5150 had a brutal-AF kid.

It's definitely in that thick, aggressive ballpark, though. Run one with some proper impulse responses and you have whisper-volume chugs. That's what I did with mine, ran it with a Mooer Radar in stereo with my Mark III running into a Torpedo Live. That setup pretty much got me Metallica's Load/Reload tone no problem.

I really miss my SL/LD.

 

[Bearitone]

I use a 412 at bedroom levels 80% of the time. Sounds way better than a 112 or 212. It’s about having a master volume, or a good volume taper, not the wattage or number of speakers.

 

[chopeth85]

I liked the one I had. Was def in that early Recto ballpark. Not as fizzy or muddy as later Rectos. It's not surgically tight like a dialed-in Mark series, but it isn't 3-channel Recto muddy either. It's kind of like a Recto, SLO, and 5150 had a brutal-AF kid.

It's definitely in that thick, aggressive ballpark, though. Run one with some proper impulse responses and you have whisper-volume chugs. That's what I did with mine, ran it with a Mooer Radar in stereo with my Mark III running into a Torpedo Live. That setup pretty much got me Metallica's Load/Reload tone no problem.

I really miss my SL/LD.

How good is the clean Channel ? And the crunch for classic rock?

 

[Gmork]

I pretty much thought all the amps ive owned didnt truly do them justice at bedroom vols, like anemic, thinner and weak versions of what they truly were. (6505, dual rec, vtm120, jsx, some others)
But my current engl fireball 100 sounds phenominal at low volumes!!! (and without any help from outside souces/pedals) Super thick and lush! As brutal and full as listening to your fav metal album at low vol! Similarly my randall T2 sounded awesome at home!! Both are darker THICK brutal and aggressive but crystal clear low/mid monsters!!

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

How good is the clean Channel ? And the crunch for classic rock?

I don't have it anymore, even though I regret selling it.

I rarely used the green channel because I had a separate clean preamp at the time, but IIRC it was very... clean. I didn't use it enough to say whether it was good or not.

I remember the blue channel having a good bit of range. It got pretty crunchy, and with the gain cranked it got pretty fucking meaty. I remember digging the blue channel for metal rhythm more because it had the bright switch, otherwise I remember the blue and red channel being voiced VERY similarly, just the red channel had more gain on tap.

 

[rexbinary]

My bedroom rig is a 5153 50w 6L6 with an EVH 412. The master volume works great. No attenuation needed. It took me a long time to wrap my head around this despite being told this works repeatedly on this site. I wasted a lot of money on "lunchbox" and "bedroom" gear until I understood how good the master volume is on the 50w 5153 amps.

 

[TheWarAgainstTime]

My bedroom rig is a 5153 50w 6L6 with an EVH 412. The master volume works great. No attenuation needed. It took me a long time to wrap my head around this despite being told this works repeatedly on this site. I wasted a lot of money on "lunchbox" and "bedroom" gear until I understood how good the master volume is on the 50w 5153 amps.

Yep. My 5153 50w was my only amp for a few years and I ran it through a 4x12 at bedroom volumes with no complaints

 

[Dumple Stilzkin]

My bedroom rig is a 5153 50w 6L6 with an EVH 412. The master volume works great. No attenuation needed. It took me a long time to wrap my head around this despite being told this works repeatedly on this site. I wasted a lot of money on "lunchbox" and "bedroom" gear until I understood how good the master volume is on the 50w 5153 amps.

So can you explain how you use the master volume to me?

 

[USMarine75]

My bedroom rig is a 5153 50w 6L6 with an EVH 412. The master volume works great. No attenuation needed. It took me a long time to wrap my head around this despite being told this works repeatedly on this site. I wasted a lot of money on "lunchbox" and "bedroom" gear until I understood how good the master volume is on the 50w 5153 amps.

Exactly. I really think most people who complain just don't understand how to tweak knobs properly.

 

[chopeth]

Agree with the evh 5150 50w, it's in my bedroom too, not through a 4x12 (I wish) but a 1x12 I also have an Ironball but prefer the former.

 

[KailM]

So can you explain how you use the master volume to me?

Adjust it counterclockwise to reduce volume. Adjust it clockwise to increase volume.

All kidding aside, I wouldn't call the 50-watt 5153's volume knobs "master" volumes. Each channel has its own independent volume. It is an amp that simply sounds great at all volume levels. It certainly wipes the floor with the LBX series, which sound like crap at low volumes IME.

And actually, I wish the 50-watt head's volume taper was more gradual, TBH. It is far more sensitive than my 6505's volume knob. If you must play at whisper volumes, you'll need to use a surgical hand when adjusting it.

I actually ran into a problem a few weeks ago at a performance, where I didn't get a sound check and accidentally bumped the volume up a bit too high. On the first riff my rig was blasting so loud I couldn't hear the backing track nor the singers. I had to stop and turn the volume down.

This is kind of a rant that applies to lots of amp designs, but why can't they design something with a more gradual volume taper? Like, most of my amps are ridiculously loud before you reach 3 out of 10 on the volume knob. What are the other 7 numbers even for? I'd like to see an amp that slowly increases volume, and "dimed" really means dimed.

 

[jclogston]

Adjust it counterclockwise to reduce volume. Adjust it clockwise to increase volume.

All kidding aside, I wouldn't call the 50-watt 5153's volume knobs "master" volumes. Each channel has its own independent volume. It is an amp that simply sounds great at all volume levels. It certainly wipes the floor with the LBX series, which sound like crap at low volumes IME.

And actually, I wish the 50-watt head's volume taper was more gradual, TBH. It is far more sensitive than my 6505's volume knob. If you must play at whisper volumes, you'll need to use a surgical hand when adjusting it.

I actually ran into a problem a few weeks ago at a performance, where I didn't get a sound check and accidentally bumped the volume up a bit too high. On the first riff my rig was blasting so loud I couldn't hear the backing track nor the singers. I had to stop and turn the volume down.

This is kind of a rant that applies to lots of amp designs, but why can't they design something with a more gradual volume taper? Like, most of my amps are ridiculously loud before you reach 3 out of 10 on the volume knob. What are the other 7 numbers even for? I'd like to see an amp that slowly increases volume, and "dimed" really means dimed.

I have the same exact issue with my EVH 50 watt head. An eq pedal with level helps with this (though i don't do this currently lol).

And i agree with the touch sensitive MV knobs. The PRS MT15 has an even worse one than the EVH 50watt head. Otherwise i would have suggested it (and i would have bought it).
The PRS Archon 50 on the other hand has a great MV. Much easier to dial down and it wasn't that touch sensitive (relatively speaking of course).

 

[DudeManBrother]

I played through a bunch of my amps yesterday to figure out which work best at low volumes. With an EQ in the loop, basically all of them work well enough to satisfy.

Just plugging straight in without any pedals etc: Archon 100, 5150, 6505+, Ultra Lead, and Splawn Super Comp all seemed to best retain their tone. Amps like my Rectos and Uberschall can be a bit too fizzy until you reach a certain volume; which isn’t too loud, but probably what I’d consider more than apartment/bedroom type level.

My favorite thick tones at super low volume was back and forth between the Archon and Super Comp. Archon does a Recto/Uber-esque tone, but in a refined way and with its own voice. Splawn Super Comp does the Fortin Nameless/modded Marshall modern metal tone as good as any amp 3x the price. It’s tight as hell, but with a ton of balls and more gain than I’ll ever need (I rarely go past 11:00)

 

[jclogston]

I played through a bunch of my amps yesterday to figure out which work best at low volumes. With an EQ in the loop, basically all of them work well enough to satisfy.

Just plugging straight in without any pedals etc: Archon 100, 5150, 6505+, Ultra Lead, and Splawn Super Comp all seemed to best retain their tone. Amps like my Rectos and Uberschall can be a bit too fizzy until you reach a certain volume; which isn’t too loud, but probably what I’d consider more than apartment/bedroom type level.

My favorite thick tones at super low volume was back and forth between the Archon and Super Comp. Archon does a Recto/Uber-esque tone, but in a refined way and with its own voice. Splawn Super Comp does the Fortin Nameless/modded Marshall modern metal tone as good as any amp 3x the price. It’s tight as hell, but with a ton of balls and more gain than I’ll ever need (I rarely go past 11:00)

I would love to try the Splawn Nitro SS...

 

[MASS DEFECT]

Adjust it counterclockwise to reduce volume. Adjust it clockwise to increase volume.

This is kind of a rant that applies to lots of amp designs, but why can't they design something with a more gradual volume taper? Like, most of my amps are ridiculously loud before you reach 3 out of 10 on the volume knob. What are the other 7 numbers even for? I'd like to see an amp that slowly increases volume, and "dimed" really means dimed.

True. All 5150/SLO family amps are like that. Just one sneeze and it is too loud. The only amp that I know WITHOUT a master volume that sounds really awesome at whisper quiet volumes and has a wide volume taper/sweep is the JP2C. I can go to 0-3 and it still is a comfortable volume. Whereas my 5150II stops being polite at 0 and 3/4.

So yeah, I suggest the JP2C as the thicc and aggressive amp for bedroom use. You can get it as thick as a Mark IVB or dark like a tight recto and still get the hair via the shred switch. Which sounds like a Fortin 33.

 

[jclogston]

True. All 5150/SLO family amps are like that. Just one sneeze and it is too loud. The only amp that I know WITHOUT a master volume that sounds really awesome at whisper quiet volumes and has a wide volume taper/sweep is the JP2C. I can go to 0-3 and it still is a comfortable volume. Whereas my 5150II stops being polite at 0 and 3/4.

So yeah, I suggest the JP2C as the thicc and aggressive amp for bedroom use. You can get it as thick as a Mark IVB or dark like a tight recto and still get the hair via the shred switch. Which sounds like a Fortin 33.

does this apply as well as to the Mark 25 or 35?

 

[MASS DEFECT]

does this apply as well as to the Mark 25 or 35?

Maybe at 10 watt mode. I haven't had enough time with a V:25 really. But the people I know who got em for a bedroom rig had good results especially with that 1x12 recto slant. I just dont know if the volume tapers work the same. Even my friend who has a V:35 commented how good the volume tapers on the JP2C.

It kinda helps that you also get an onboard boost and the EQ sliders are more sensitive. I play at 60 watts and it can get as saturated as a modeling rig without waking the baby next room.