Issue with amp plugins

[Georgeclooney5150]

I can get a decent tone out of them but there's this feel and this crispy tone for cleans missing. And also noisy interface with high gain. I have played amp modelers like the catalyst, katana and Yamaha thr without any issues. I did try a boss gt100 with my setup but run to the same problem.

My set up includes a scarlett 3rd generation, windows 10 PC , jbl lsr308, lsr305 and the 306s. I haven't decided which one I'm gonna keep and sell.

I have tried setting the scarlett gain knob to zero, use the input gain on the plugins and also i tried to play around with the gain knob to adjust to the recommend input gain which is -18db to -12db. Buffer size all the way down till what my PC can handle. My room is not treated.

Should I try different monitors, interface, buy one of those amps and record the output straight to my interface? Or get a used axe fx?

 

[Stiman]

You didn't say which amp sim you're using. From what you've written, I think it comes down to getting better at dialing in tones. Find presets from people who are good, or even buy a few to get started.

I would not change monitors, those are highly regarded if you check audiosciencereview.com. I'd keep the 308 if you have the room, or 306 otherwise. Interface is fine too.

 

[Kosthrash]

Try a shorter and better shielded guitar cable for starters. Then your monitors have to be placed on ear level height, try better positioning.

 

[Georgeclooney5150]

I'm using amp roots, and emissary with York audio irs. And some trails

 

[TheWarAgainstTime]

Try turning 90 degrees from your normal spot and moving away from your computer. I've found I get some excess noise/whirring sound from my laptop that gets picked up by my guitars and amplified through my amps and plugins, so that may be the culprit for your noisy high gain settings as well.

As for the cleans tones, what sim are you using and what's a good reference for what you're going for? Clean tones on albums often have more grit than you'd think, so crystal clean tones can seem weak or dull by comparison.

 

[Georgeclooney5150]

Thank you guys for the tips.

TheWarAgaintsTime- I'm aiming for metallica cleans and funk style clean Ala strat. I'm trying emissary and ml sound lab Dumble

 

[cindarkness]

It does smell like a case of noisy electronics devices plugged into the same grid or a ground loop. Power outlets properly grounded? Have you tried running an extension cable from other outlet that's not under the same circuit breaker?

 

[TheWarAgainstTime]

Thank you guys for the tips.

TheWarAgaintsTime- I'm aiming for metallica cleans and funk style clean Ala strat. I'm trying emissary and ml sound lab Dumble

Metallica cleans are generally a Roland Jazz Chorus if memory serves, but the Dumble sim should be good for funk cleans with a healthy amount of compression from the pedal section with single coils or a split sound from your guitar

 

[Georgeclooney5150]

It does smell like a case of noisy electronics devices plugged into the same grid or a ground loop. Power outlets properly grounded? Have you tried running an extension cable from other outlet that's not under the same circuit breaker?

I think its the interface and computer all together. I plugged my solid state amps to the outlets and no problem. It's a bummer that my amps sound better to me, like a blanket was removed. And the palm mutes sound chunky, can't get that with plugins.

 

[TedEH]

Are you someone who doesn't normally play through IRs + monitors? If you're used to the amp-in-a-room experience, you might need to do some work to replicate that in the box. To give some ideas, this is what I have to do to make IRs + monitors comfortable to play through:

- I use slightly less gain for recording than for "live". Extra gain in a loud room adds texture. Extra gain in a recorded amp sim becomes unintelligible mush.
- Gatta try more IRs. They aren't all made equal, and you maybe just don't like the IRs you have.
- Avoid playing dry in mono. Either double-track and pan wide like you're doing an album, or use a delay to mimic the other side, or pan just a bit off to the side and use verb/delay to simulate a room, etc. Anything at all to give the signal a sense of being in a space.
- Bit of a counter-intuitive one, but low-pass your whole dry guitar track (post amp+IR, pre-effects). At a lower frequency than you would think you would. My theory for why this works for me is: Air absorption. I'm no expert in this at all, but I think that air absorption causes a pretty steep high frequency rolloff that happens pretty quickly. A mic or IR represents a really tiny amount of "air" between the source and where it's picked up, but your ear typically will have a couple meters or more of distance. The extra high end that results comes across (to me) as being really fizzy, harsh, unnatural, etc. - and contributes to amp sims sounding more saturated than they really are.

So my "reasonably comfortable through monitors" chain looks like:
IN -> Amp -> IR -> Low-Pass -> Send to FX track -> Delay (10-12 ms, feedback so that I get a couple of repeats) -> Reverb (with a pre-delay so that it starts after the first delay) -> Reverse the width of the FX track.

 

[cindarkness]

- Avoid playing dry in mono. Either double-track and pan wide like you're doing an album, or use a delay to mimic the other side, or pan just a bit off to the side and use verb/delay to simulate a room, etc. Anything at all to give the signal a sense of being in a space.

This is super important for just jamming with your monitors and/or cans. Most of the recent plugins have built in "doublers". The newer Neural DSP plugins and their X-revisions do this great. Otto Audio's amp sim also does the guitar doubling effect very good.

 

[Emperoff]

Try turning 90 degrees from your normal spot and moving away from your computer. I've found I get some excess noise/whirring sound from my laptop that gets picked up by my guitars and amplified through my amps and plugins, so that may be the culprit for your noisy high gain settings as well.

As for the cleans tones, what sim are you using and what's a good reference for what you're going for? Clean tones on albums often have more grit than you'd think, so crystal clean tones can seem weak or dull by comparison.

Yup. I've had this high-pitched noise forever with any equipment and just got used to it. Then one day plugged my interface to the laptop and all noise was gone. I was astonished. I don't think it was the laptop itself but rather the fact that it was connected to a different plug than the rest of the stuff.

 

[Georgeclooney5150]

Are you someone who doesn't normally play through IRs + monitors? If you're used to the amp-in-a-room experience, you might need to do some work to replicate that in the box. To give some ideas, this is what I have to do to make IRs + monitors comfortable to play through:

- I use slightly less gain for recording than for "live". Extra gain in a loud room adds texture. Extra gain in a recorded amp sim becomes unintelligible mush.
- Gatta try more IRs. They aren't all made equal, and you maybe just don't like the IRs you have.
- Avoid playing dry in mono. Either double-track and pan wide like you're doing an album, or use a delay to mimic the other side, or pan just a bit off to the side and use verb/delay to simulate a room, etc. Anything at all to give the signal a sense of being in a space.
- Bit of a counter-intuitive one, but low-pass your whole dry guitar track (post amp+IR, pre-effects). At a lower frequency than you would think you would. My theory for why this works for me is: Air absorption. I'm no expert in this at all, but I think that air absorption causes a pretty steep high frequency rolloff that happens pretty quickly. A mic or IR represents a really tiny amount of "air" between the source and where it's picked up, but your ear typically will have a couple meters or more of distance. The extra high end that results comes across (to me) as being really fizzy, harsh, unnatural, etc. - and contributes to amp sims sounding more saturated than they really are.

So my "reasonably comfortable through monitors" chain looks like:
IN -> Amp -> IR -> Low-Pass -> Send to FX track -> Delay (10-12 ms, feedback so that I get a couple of repeats) -> Reverb (with a pre-delay so that it starts after the first delay) -> Reverse the width of the FX track.

Thanks for the tips. I'll give it a try.

 

[Georgeclooney5150]

TedEH, I haven't tried your advise but this is weird, I panned my guitar sims to the left speaker, which most of the time my head is facing a little to look at the fretboard and it helped bit. I can hear what I'm playing with better detail. it seems that listening to the speakers left and right was messing with me haha. odd no? when we are playing amps, the sound is more, I guess centered?

 

[TedEH]

In my experience, at least, it's pretty rare that you'd have your ear directly in front of the speaker cones of a real cab, just beaming all that sound right into your face, but that IS a common use case for near-field monitors.

 

[Georgeclooney5150]

In my experience, at least, it's pretty rare that you'd have your ear directly in front of the speaker cones of a real cab, just beaming all that sound right into your face, but that IS a common use case for near-field monitors.

sorry I guess I didn't explain my self. when we are using our studio monitors, they are trying to provide the same sound/info at the same time left and right, which to me, I guess I found out that its distracting ( I know weird), but when playing with an amp/cab is different, the sound its just coming from the cab, an only section. so what help a bit was only using one studio monitor to focus on one source. nothing to do with amp in the room sound. sorry hard to explain.

 

[TedEH]

I might be very wrong about this, but if everything else is equal - your room treatment is good, the monitors are the same distance away from you, you haven't panned anything or used stereo effect, etc etc - then in theory, you should perceive the two sources the same as if it's one. BUT - of course not everything else is equal, distance will be a bit off, the room won't react the same to both sides, etc., so yeah, I could imagine that being something that make two sources vs one not come across the same as a single one would. Makes sense to me.