Jazz Metal

[jacksonplayer]

Jazz metal is an oxymoron

Pretty much.

I'm a much more experimental jazz type guy--no I-II-v, no standards, etc. and pretty much start my jazz album collection with Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" (it gets a lot weirder from there), but I'd also say that the most important characteristic of jazz--whether bebop, modal, or avant-garde--is group improvisation. It's completely at odds with the mindset of a metal band.

When a jazz band plays, everyone is improvising along with the soloist. A rock/metal solo is basically 16 bars of "look what I can do" over a static background. In jazz, the accompaniment is NOT background, and shifts and turns along with the soloist--a very high form of musical communication. And the soloist is creating a spontaneous composition, not simply showing off their skill set.

In some ways, Weather Report's early albums were the ultimate expression of this--the saying about them was that "everybody was soloing, but nobody was soloing." Some people find it murky and directionless, but once you "get it", albums like Sweetnighter and Mysterious Traveler are amazing.

 

[TaylorMacPhail]

@Evil Weasel Dude, I'm so glad you posted that band (Yakuza), I started to check out a bunch of their tunes (across all their albums) and I really really dig them; they're weird and I like it, thanks a lot!

 

[fps]

Pretty much.

I'm a much more experimental jazz type guy--no I-II-v, no standards, etc. and pretty much start my jazz album collection with Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" (it gets a lot weirder from there), but I'd also say that the most important characteristic of jazz--whether bebop, modal, or avant-garde--is group improvisation. It's completely at odds with the mindset of a metal band.

When a jazz band plays, everyone is improvising along with the soloist. A rock/metal solo is basically 16 bars of "look what I can do" over a static background. In jazz, the accompaniment is NOT background, and shifts and turns along with the soloist--a very high form of musical communication. And the soloist is creating a spontaneous composition, not simply showing off their skill set.

In some ways, Weather Report's early albums were the ultimate expression of this--the saying about them was that "everybody was soloing, but nobody was soloing." Some people find it murky and directionless, but once you "get it", albums like Sweetnighter and Mysterious Traveler are amazing.

Awesome contribution, care to share some of your favourite albums in the direction of the things you're talking about?

 

[celticelk]

Pretty much.

I'm a much more experimental jazz type guy--no I-II-v, no standards, etc. and pretty much start my jazz album collection with Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" (it gets a lot weirder from there), but I'd also say that the most important characteristic of jazz--whether bebop, modal, or avant-garde--is group improvisation. It's completely at odds with the mindset of a metal band.

When a jazz band plays, everyone is improvising along with the soloist. A rock/metal solo is basically 16 bars of "look what I can do" over a static background. In jazz, the accompaniment is NOT background, and shifts and turns along with the soloist--a very high form of musical communication. And the soloist is creating a spontaneous composition, not simply showing off their skill set.

In some ways, Weather Report's early albums were the ultimate expression of this--the saying about them was that "everybody was soloing, but nobody was soloing." Some people find it murky and directionless, but once you "get it", albums like Sweetnighter and Mysterious Traveler are amazing.

Agreed. You can find artists or bands that are doing this sort of improvisation with more rock/metal tonal materials - some of Vernon Reid's projects, like Free Form Funky Freqs, come to mind, or Last Exit - but those things tend to be pretty far from the examples of "jazz metal" offered here, which is basically metal with more complex harmony.

 

[celticelk]

Here's a blog that's entirely made up of interviews with musicians about jazz and metal: HEAVY METAL BE-BOP. Anybody that interviews Gentry Densley, Bill Laswell, and Melvin Gibbs on this topic knows what he's about, IMO.

 

[Ryan-ZenGtr-]

Shame on all of you (octatonic excepted) for not appreciating Shaun Baxter's album "Jazz Metal"...





Shaun has been teaching at the Guitar Institute in London for many years, playing with Carl Palmer and others and writing columns in Guitar Techniques magazine. Without doubt he is one of the greatest players of all time.

More info on Shaun Baxter

Shaun Baxter

Shaun Baxter

And another Shaun might also be of interest...




Nice to see ToMera get a mention. They are a local band for me and thoroughly nice people. They have another project going called Haaken, which you might enjoy also.

Linear Sphere

 

[celticelk]

^^^ Ryan, I don't see anything particularly jazz OR metal about that track. It's fairly generic-sounding fusion-type instrumental rock. And damn, that keyboard sound is dated. I appreciate that you like the guy's work, but I'm having trouble seeing the justification for claiming he's "one of the greatest players of all time."

 

[shuntz]

I forgot about these somehow...

Jazz chorus in this Beat It cover Beat It Cover - best Michael Jackson Cover ever! (from Lemur Voice) - YouTube[/CODE]

And Chon is very fusion-like O.G. - CHON - YouTube

CHON - The Perfect Pillow - YouTube

Anyone gonna tell me how to embed videos or am I stuck with trial and error?

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[MstrH]

I should qualify all the music I post by saying I really have no idea of Jazz other than the fusion stuff my friend has given me!

Yakuza maybe? Probably just more avant garde than anything but they have a song at the end of their first album which may fit the bill. Ephel Duath would probably fit into the same cetegory.






How about the Jonas Hellborg album Art Metal? I am no expert but Hellborg is primarily a fusion player so I hope it can be considered Jazz.


Also a lot of mathcore bands have jazz style interludes. The number 12 looks like you, the first A Textbook Tragedy album, The Hysteria, Lye By Mistake etc.

I strongly second the mention of Yakuza. Not because they're necessarily official "jazz", but just because I never thought a saxophone could sound cool, let alone in a metal context. Give em a listen. And Jonas Hellborg is way cool to.

 

[HeavyRiffin]

Come on, how hasn't anyone mentioned Planet X?

 

[Malkav]

Come on, how hasn't anyone mentioned Planet X?

Planet X are one of my favourite bands of all time, but they fit more into the fusion/progressive mentality than Jazz as such, in face many of the bands in this thread are more in line with that kind of music than what it seems the OP was asking for This is just my opinion though so meh Still cool thread and some nice recomendations regardless

 

[Speedy Fingers]

No love for A Sense of Gravity? This is one of our more harmonically interesting tracks.

I feel like when someone uses the term 'Jazz Metal', they're generally referring to elements of jazz within a metal framework. These elements are almost always to do with tonality and harmony, and almost never rhythm and improvisation. It would be very difficult and probably not great sounding to accomplish a 'jazz' solo over distorted, improvised comping (from bass, guitar and keys) and improvised drumming.

I just can't imagine it working.

 

[celticelk]

I feel like when someone uses the term 'Jazz Metal', they're generally referring to elements of jazz within a metal framework. These elements are almost always to do with tonality and harmony, and almost never rhythm and improvisation.

Which are the elements that are probably *least* defining of jazz - that sort of complex harmony is abundant in other forms, like late 19th and early 20th century classical music, and there's plenty of jazz that's harmonically pretty simple.

 

[TaylorMacPhail]

You have not heard a lot of metal bands then.

How much is "a lot"? Do I have to listen to every metal band in the world to be qualified to give my opinion?

Oh yeah, who cares! It's a subjective opinion and I've listened to a fair bit of metal in my days but have been "branching out" mostly, nowadays. But sorry I offended you or something!

 

[Speedy Fingers]

Which are the elements that are probably *least* defining of jazz - that sort of complex harmony is abundant in other forms, like late 19th and early 20th century classical music, and there's plenty of jazz that's harmonically pretty simple.

I agree completely.

 

[ThemBones89]

Linear Sphere are quite Jazz orientated in places, they're similar to cynic but edge closer to the fusion and prog side of things.

Also, I wanna throw Emil Werstler into this, although none of the bands hes been in have really merged Jazz and Metal, Emils quite open about the Jazz influences in his playing.

 

[soliloquy]

they call themselves metal. i struggle to see that unless its avante-garde, but even then. regardless, this is awesome!

 

[Dan Halen]

Textures- Touching the Absolute.

Its not quite JAZZ but more of a Fusiony type metal. I really love this song. and i know it's a bit ambient but theres a good bit of Fusion elements with this song specifically. I know a lot of their other songs still retain some of this.

Textures - Touching the Absolute - YouTube

This is a song off their first album thats would fall under this category but only slightly

Textures- Heave

Textures - Heave - YouTube

I dont really like their first CD. I like what they have become though.

 

[ArrowHead]

I see a lot of "that's not jazz, it's fusion" answers.

Isn't the entire concept of fusion bridging jazz techniques into other compositional styles? Thus "Jazz Metal" would be fusion, right?

 

[Dan Halen]

I see a lot of "that's not jazz, it's fusion" answers.

Isn't the entire concept of fusion bridging jazz techniques into other compositional styles? Thus "Jazz Metal" would be fusion, right?

Essentially Fusion IS "Jazz-Fusion" but I'm not sure what the OP really wants at this point because i have not read ALL the posts and seeing a lot of Cynic and such i figured OP would also want some Textures.

If he wants Straight-up Jazz Metal then there isnt a lot of it and a lot of other people have posted some of the bands that Encompass it. I'd also say that BTBAM carries a lot of Jazz influences and references in their music but they are far from Jazz, they are Prog.

So the basis of this post is even though its fusion, its still jazz. but if OP would like something more specific and we are not meeting his/her needs then that also needs to be stated.