Neural DSP plugins for practise?

[TomRaw]

I don't have a good interface, but with minimum 8ms latency

Fixed that for you

 

[sighval]

Dang. I sport a rather low-end interface, UMC204HD by Behringer (which I find to very quite nice BTW). That goes into a 2012 iMac (intel i5 2.7 GHz, RAM recently upped to 16 GB), so nothing too fancy. Latency is a non-issue, as it's around 2.9 ms for me, standalone or via DAW (Logic).

I've bought the Cory Wong some time ago and I couldn't be happier TBH. I know it's not the most popular choice and it's the odd one in the family, but it sound great for my needs. Different flavours of cleans, edge of breakup tones, low to mid gains, sweet, sweet leads, with the two overdrives and EQ it can be pushed to do some heavier stuff quite well too. A wah (with an autowah), an envelope filter (which is reeeally dope), a very nice warm dual delay and a GREAT reverb... all in all I think this one doesn't get enough credit.

 

[dspellman]

Considering selling it all and going plugins or amp modeler in studio monitors.

Any tips? Or did something similar?

I've long since gone to modelers into studio monitors at home. Working with software and computers didn't make sense to me because I *was* taking things out live, and working with a modeler that already had all the I/O I needed was a whole helluva lot cheaper than submitting my computer to the dangers of playing out.

 

[Matt08642]

Are we talking roundtrip latency or input?



Motu M4 was the best purchase I've made in terms of using VSTs, came from my POD X3 which was like 40ms input latency alone or something horrible

 

[Williams]

Keep your amp and get an attenuator. I use the Two Notes Reload but there are many available (Freyette is best?). I can play in the middle of the night and not disturb my neighbor. I also built an MDF iso-box so I can push the speakers more at low volume. It is heavy and large but easy to build. Mine accommodates a 4x12. Yours can be smaller since you have a 2x12. I also have an Axe-FX III. The new generation firmware is really good and the continually release FW updates that audible improve the sound and feel. I haven't tried Neural. I mostly use tube amps for recording. Usually DI'd through a Radial J48 and reamped with Reload. I sometimes use tones from the Axe-FX. I rarely use plugins but sometimes. I'll never take a tube amp to a gig again. I use Axe-FX with FCB1010 and Mission Engineering Gemini II.

In 2000 I made the worst decision ever in my music "career". I sold my tube amp (Mesa-Boogie Dual Rec w/ Marshall 1960B) for a Line 6 Vetta 2x12 for the same reasons you called out. It took me twenty years (of shit recordings) to go full circle and get back to tube amps. Digital solutions are vastly better nowadays but tube amps are still slightly superior generally. Either road can get you there.

There are a ton of amp sim plugins that are good if all you are doing is practicing. Some are even free.

I don't know your budget by Adam A7X are generally considered a sweet spot for high quality bang for buck (note Pete Thorn has a pair for example).

 

[guitar_player4_2_0]

I’ve recently jumped on the bandwagon. I picked up a Scarlett solo interface and the cheapo presonus $100 monitors, although mine were like $130 because they have Bluetooth. Grabbed the Gojira on sale this weekend after doing the demo a few months ago. Had been jumping from trial to trial on the Neural plugins ever since. It’s not the same as a tube amp, but that’s not what I was expecting. All the neural stuff sounds absolutely amazing. Maybe we’re all a bit spoiled now, but I remember the Pods and V amps of yesteryear and the stuff that’s coming out now continually blows me away. The default patches even sound good. I picked up a midi controller so I can do on the fly switching and use the effects in real time. To me it’s like being able to plug into Joe Duplantier’s rig any time I want for $80, play for as long as I want and record with it too. That’s crazy. Even the SLO for $100 is a good deal to me. When you consider the amps they simulate are thousands of dollars and very hard to come by, it starts to seem more practical. The artist suite ones all have some pretty handy effects even if a lot of them have similar amps. I’m definitely curious to try some other plugins based off of my experience with Neural DSP, especially after some of the comments on here. Also I should add I’m using a 2009 MacBook with a core 2 duo processor and I’m getting latency under 5ms depending on settings with no glitches or pops. I do have ram upgraded to 16gb, but still it’s a 12 year old laptop and it runs all the stuff just fine.

 

[4Eyes]

I'm just wondering - people who don't find modern amp sims "realistic" enough - could you elaborate on what's wrong with them for you?

I'm coming from tube amp into reactive load with IR loader kind of rig. I have compared my real rig vs Neural SLO and Nolly (into the same virtual cab). only thing I had to do was adjust inputs on plugins so the amp models behaved in similar way like my real tube amp. I didn't use any of the presets, turned off unnecessary blocks in the plugins and created sounds from scratch, like I would do with real amp and pedals in front. but after that, the only major difference I've found is that I don't have physical amp and I have to fiddle with knobs on the screen. They don't lack dynamics, clean sounds break up nicely like on a nice tube amp clean channel, crunch sounds (I mean Plexi/800 territory) cuts off nicely with juicy chug on palm mutes and they clean very well with volume pot on guitar, too. mid gain tones sustain, just like on cranked tube amp - and for me mid crunch tones were always weak point of amps sims, I don't play them a lot, but that was my sort of benchmark for good/realistic amps sim compared to behaviour of a real tube amp. High gain tones were good for couple of years, now. but with improvements done overall to the modelling technology, that brought realistic clean and mid gain tones, high gains got even better, too. I'm able to clean up high gain tone on slo/5150 model with TS in front, just by coil splitting my PAF style neck and rolling of the volume, just like I'm able on that sort of tube amp (but I have to admit that having high output bridge pickup helps this kind of setup). sounds react to picking hand and you have to dig the good chug out of the amp sim, just like on real tube amp.

I don't want to play advocate for amp sims, I'm curious what I've missed in my observation and in comparing tube amp to the same sort of amp model.

 

[Emperoff]

Round trip latency is the only figure that matters. Learn how to test it to find out how the interface really fares.

 

[DoctorStoner]

We're probably way beyond helping @70Seven out, but:

1) Amplitube 5 Max w/ Axe I/O interface - unlimited awesome sounds and a great interface for $400 (my current rig)
2) Fender Mustang - Under $100 used for the lower models and I used this as a recording rig for years. When connected on USB there are a ton of settings you cant get through the settings on the amp itself. Go 12" if you want it to be good for anything but practice.
All guitars through Mustang I:

3) Zoom MS-50G. Sounds silly but its a reasonably good way to get a lot of sounds for cheap.
Guitars and bass through MS-50G:

 

[70Seven]

Thanks for all the suggestion. I’ve been reading this thread every time there was a new reply.

in the end I’m keeping my amp. Not selling it. Spent some time with it and I must have been having a bad weekend and it all sounded bad to me. It’s really not bad at all.

but I also got a scarlet interface and two studio monitors. Both are arriving tomorrow. I’ll still try the neural stuff. More options, more sounds. So I’ll see how it goes. I’ll try a few out but by listening to the demos I’m thinking either the soldano or the plini. But I’ll try a bunch first.

I’ll post my first reaction to the neural tomorrow night. That’s probably when I’ll get the chance to set all it up.

 

[torchlord]

They’re definitely good enough for practice, but if all you’re interested in doing is practicing, then buy a digital or solid-state practice amp. I wouldn’t recommend plugins for that.

Btw, a lot of what you’re hearing in YouTube demos is a polished mix with double or quad tracking, so these plugins aren’t going to sound as good as that out the box.

You’ll also need decent headphones or monitors to get anything good sounding.

Seriously, just go with a practice amp. I recently picked up a Peavey Vypyr Tube 60 and it’s great for lower volume playing.

I think the Peavey Vyper stuff is pretty underrated. I bought the small 100 dollars one and I thought it was pretty nice right out of the gate. I also bought a Katana 100 later on and had to fuck around with it for a year and a half to get the sounds I was looking for.

The one thing I don't care for with regards to plugins is when you want to get your guitar and play, you have to wait till your PC is on, then load your daw, which to me just am not a fan of. I'd rather have it on right now.

I still don't think much anything is going to beat a tube amp experience and if you want a lower volume practice with some versatility, i would get a Two Notes Torpedo Captor, Captor X, Live or something in that ballpark. There are some cheaper variations out with regards to load boxes, but the virtual IR mics in the Wall Of Sound Plugins pretty good. With going that route you know you have a great amp tone you like so there is no second-guessing because it is real.

 

[budda]

Just find what works for you . For me, that is a leading digital preamp.

 

[torchlord]

Thanks for all the suggestion. I’ve been reading this thread every time there was a new reply.

in the end I’m keeping my amp. Not selling it. Spent some time with it and I must have been having a bad weekend and it all sounded bad to me. It’s really not bad at all.

but I also got a scarlet interface and two studio monitors. Both are arriving tomorrow. I’ll still try the neural stuff. More options, more sounds. So I’ll see how it goes. I’ll try a few out but by listening to the demos I’m thinking either the soldano or the plini. But I’ll try a bunch first.

I’ll post my first reaction to the neural tomorrow night. That’s probably when I’ll get the chance to set all it up.

Don't forget there are worlds of tones you can do with a tube amp, because preamp tubes and speakers can be changed out, and swapping them does change your tone drastically. I find with preamp tubes it's better to mix brands like say combining JJ's with some Tad's to get the more drastic tonal changes, but this is slightly costly going down speakers and tube swapping. There are video's online that prove the amp portion doesn't make nearly as much difference sonically as changing your speaker to a different one.

 

[torchlord]

Yes, they are very good amp sims and sounds excellent
HOWEVER
That does mean you could practice with them. They are perfect for mixing and full production, but when comes down to actually practice with your hands, they are far from real amps. This is a common issue with simulation, while they have great sound, but they don't react like a real amp. This will affect a lot to your dynamic, where you practice to pick hard or light. On a real tube amp, you always find obvious and natural dynamic if you pick a note at different force, this is where you need to have precise control on your hands, ultimately to get a good guitar DI.

I totally agree, if you want to be sad with your sound just play something non-tube with a guy that has a really good tube amp and guitar mix in practice.

 

[budda]

I totally agree, if you want to be sad with your sound just play something non-tube with a guy that has a really good tube amp and guitar mix in practice.

I mean, no, but continue.

 

[torchlord]

Keep your amp and get an attenuator. I use the Two Notes Reload but there are many available (Freyette is best?). I can play in the middle of the night and not disturb my neighbor. I also built an MDF iso-box so I can push the speakers more at low volume. It is heavy and large but easy to build. Mine accommodates a 4x12. Yours can be smaller since you have a 2x12. I also have an Axe-FX III. The new generation firmware is really good and the continually release FW updates that audible improve the sound and feel. I haven't tried Neural. I mostly use tube amps for recording. Usually DI'd through a Radial J48 and reamped with Reload. I sometimes use tones from the Axe-FX. I rarely use plugins but sometimes. I'll never take a tube amp to a gig again. I use Axe-FX with FCB1010 and Mission Engineering Gemini II.

In 2000 I made the worst decision ever in my music "career". I sold my tube amp (Mesa-Boogie Dual Rec w/ Marshall 1960B) for a Line 6 Vetta 2x12 for the same reasons you called out. It took me twenty years (of shit recordings) to go full circle and get back to tube amps. Digital solutions are vastly better nowadays but tube amps are still slightly superior generally. Either road can get you there.

There are a ton of amp sim plugins that are good if all you are doing is practicing. Some are even free.

I don't know your budget by Adam A7X are generally considered a sweet spot for high quality bang for buck (note Pete Thorn has a pair for example).

I have a Reload as well, is there a particular reason you are not using the DI out from the Reload?

 

[4Eyes]

The one thing I don't care for with regards to plugins is when you want to get your guitar and play, you have to wait till your PC is on, then load your daw, which to me just am not a fan of. I'd rather have it on right now.

This argument from y2k era keeps popping up still even in 2020s. And I really don't get it why people are still using it. Modern PCs/Macs with SSDs are user ready in about 10-15sec (full boot, even less when in hybernate/sleep mode), loading up practice project in DAW with amp sims and practice songs, less than that (and you can still put your computer to hibernate state with your project opened - so it's ready to play in about 10 seconds or even less).

Picking up guitar, cleaning strings, putting it on, plugging in cable(s), finding a pick, that's still suitable for playing, check if guitar is still in tune, finding a pick I dropped..it takes much more time to make my guitar ready, than it took computer with DAW to be ready to rock...and this process is basically the same no matter if I plugged to my amp or to the interface..

Hell...I'm not fast enough to even sit in the chair from hitting the power button on my PC till logon screen shows up

Use whatever suits you the best and you enjoy to play through, but please don't say that booting a computer and loading up a project is hassle big enough to keep you away from using plugins, that's just plain (I mean generally speaking, not you exactly - I see lot of people using this argument and it drives me crazy)

 

[Matt08642]

This argument from y2k era keeps popping up still even in 2020s. And I really don't get it why people are still using it. Modern PCs/Macs with SSDs are user ready in about 10-15sec (full boot, even less when in hybernate/sleep mode), loading up practice project in DAW with amp sims and practice songs, less than that (and you can still put your computer to hibernate state with your project opened - so it's ready to play in about 10 seconds or even less).

Picking up guitar, cleaning strings, putting it on, plugging in cable(s), finding a pick, that's still suitable for playing, check if guitar is still in tune, finding a pick I dropped..it takes much more time to make my guitar ready, than it took computer with DAW to be ready to rock...and this process is basically the same no matter if I plugged to my amp or to the interface..

Hell...I'm not fast enough to even sit in the chair from hitting the power button on my PC till logon screen shows up

Use whatever suits you the best and you enjoy to play through, but please don't say that booting a computer and loading up a project is hassle big enough to keep you away from using plugins, that's just plain (I mean generally speaking, not you exactly - I see lot of people using this argument and it drives me crazy)

The only time my PC even reboots is for updates, my average uptime is like 14-20 days and my DAW is literally always open with the master out muted so it actually takes less time than if I waited for my tube amp to warm up on standby.

 

[eclecto-acoustic]

The only time my PC even reboots is for updates, my average uptime is like 14-20 days and my DAW is literally always open with the master out muted so it actually takes less time than if I waited for my tube amp to warm up on standby.

I count at least 3 common points of contention in this post, and I love it.

 

[t1337Dude]

Huge fan of Neural DSP plugins. I have: Gojira, Plini, Nolly, NST, Abasi, Cali, and Omega. I pipe my guitar through a Focusrite Solo 3rd gen, add the VST's to FL Studio to combine everything I like between the plugins, and listen through customized Philharmonic BMR speakers ($2,395/pr). As you might guess I'm a metalhead to I appreciate their catering to a variety of metal tones. The inclusion of presets from Ihsahn on the Gojira plugin made me very happy. There's a giant selection of presets in this iteration so I believe there's something for everyone. It's so easy to pick a preset, pick a favorite IR, and EQ it to adapt it to your mix. So far the I feel the Gojira plugin has raised the bar for them in terms of value, versatility, and overall quality of tone. The MIDI-controllable pedals is a fantastic touch and hopefully a regular inclusion in future Archetypes. On the downside, the plugins are pricey and some offer very little versatility (e.g. Omega, Cali, or NST). The Cali is a great plugin but really shines if you can add some reverb from the Plini, for example. Thankfully there are occasional sales and discounts for regular customers so if you wait, you can get a plugin or two without sinking too much coin.