spudmunkey
Well-Known Member
Sparkle finish IS a $600 charge. So is the pink candy, purple candy and the "arctic" finish packages.
New Kiesel Models 2017
- Thread starter dmlinger
- Start date
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Sparkle finish IS a $600 charge. So is the pink candy, purple candy and the "arctic" finish packages.
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KnightBrolaire
Say yes to Chugs
whoops, my bad. seems on the money though considering dudes like marty bell charge 400-600 for sparkle finishes depending on the type of guitar (bolt ons are cheaper).
spudmunkey
Well-Known Member
Online just a solid color paint job, they first have to lay down a base coat a specific color, level it, add the flake layer, make sure they are all laying flat, then a trans color, then I imagine the clear layers need to be thicker than normal so that the final finish is level.
I *BELIEVE* the color-shifting finishes are $400, because that's a multi-layer process...plus the extra cost of the more-expensive paint. It's also why the Kiesel Racing Green, McLaren Yellow etc colors are an upcharge even though they are just solid non-metallic colors, because they have to do a "perfect" coat of white under those colors first, so it's kinds like two paint jobs.
I *BELIEVE* the color-shifting finishes are $400, because that's a multi-layer process...plus the extra cost of the more-expensive paint. It's also why the Kiesel Racing Green, McLaren Yellow etc colors are an upcharge even though they are just solid non-metallic colors, because they have to do a "perfect" coat of white under those colors first, so it's kinds like two paint jobs.
Hollowway
Extended Ranger
So this is interesting. I've been wanting a Becker Numbers guitar for as long as I can remember. I saw two pop up in the in-stock section last week, and then one this week, and they're listed at $1799, and on sale for $1599, with the normal $200 savings you see on in-stock instruments. So I called the company to see if that's a typo, or if there was something unique about these. Because the normal price for them (in the builder) is $1599. Mike said that they need to show a savings in that portion of the website (apparently that's how the website works), and so they add $200 to make then price $1799, then discount it $200 to bring it to $1599 to show it's now on sale. Either way, in stock or custom, it's $1599. I now understand I'll not save anything on this guitar in the in-stock section, but that seems like a shifty way of advertising that. It's not on sale, but they're advertising it that it is. Mike said there were very few models that were basic specs like that. But now I really don't know what these in-stock prices actually reflect.
mnemonic
Custom User Title
I remember stuff like that was in the news a lot about a year or two ago here in the UK, supermarkets raising the price of something then putting it on 'sale' for the normal price, then when the sale is over, the normal price goes back to normal.
Stores like SportsDirect also got a lot of flak for marking things up then having 20% (or whatever amount) off sales. Everything in that store is perpetually on sale for the normal amount.
More shadiness.
Stores like SportsDirect also got a lot of flak for marking things up then having 20% (or whatever amount) off sales. Everything in that store is perpetually on sale for the normal amount.
More shadiness.
stevexc
Well-Known Member
If I'm understanding the legalese correctly that's actually illegal in parts of the world (like Canada, for one). Obviously it may be legal in California, but here at least an item has to be sold at the "regular price" for a certain length of time before it can be used as the regular price in a sale situation (Source).
TheTrooper
Well-Known Member
KnightBrolaire
Say yes to Chugs
Kiesel has been doing this for a while. Basically just ignore the supposed 200$ savings. It's just like how they always give 100$ off of options on custom builds- that's the standard for them. It's a ploy to make you think you're getting a better deal than you actually are. I watch their in-stock for 8 strings like a hawk and any guitar that sits in-stock for too long just gets rotated out. There hasn't been any seriously low prices for the guitars when they just want to get rid of them, which means that overall demand is probably high enough that they don't care if it takes them a couple of months to sell the guitar at the normal price. There's one DC7x in a black cherry finish that's been hanging around for months and they haven't dropped the price once on it. Even with that kind of crap going on I still think Kiesels are a great deal overall and they make pretty damn good guitars.
Hollowway
Extended Ranger
Hahaha, me too! I check the 8 string in stocks regularly. And I know what you mean. I've seen a couple languishing there forever. Someone else said it best - Kiesels are great guitars for the money if you stick to basic specs. All the options inflate the price quickly, but don't make it a better playing instrument. In the under $2000 range they're awesome. In the over $3000 range there is a LOT of competition for really amazing instruments.
KnightBrolaire
Say yes to Chugs
someone bought that really nice orangeburst VM8
That's the second time I've missed out on it dammit.SnowfaLL
Well-Known Member
But this is what grinds my gears when people compare say a Kiesel vs a PRS customshop or even a Suhr.. They say "You pay $3k for a Kiesel or $3k for a Suhr, its not even close" but if you are talking BASE specs on both, its a $1200 Kiesel vs a $3k Suhr.. If we're talking quilted tops and decked out options for both, its a $3k Kiesel vs a $6k Suhr. Or a $3k Kiesel vs a $10k+ PRS.
But like politics and news, everyone tries to fit their narrative into their argument. I love my Carvins (not so much my Kiesels) but its unfair to compare quality of my one-piece quilt top, unique purple sunset burst ST300T to my solid color Aristides 070, even if they ended up costing roughly the same.
narad
Progressive metal and politics
Nah nah nah, Kiesel charges ridiculous amounts for options, whereas Suhr has a higher base price but generally more modest options. A $6k Suhr is pretty rare and is like either one of their limited weird runs or something with body+neck+hs binding.
You look at that $3k Kiesel, and if the specs chose something like quilt maple, then you can easily get a comparable Suhr within $1k more.
That's the point, hardly anyone buys $3k kiesels. But for <2k their options/quality/value cannot be beat the in custom world. I can get a headless with some nice options like SS frets for under 1500, which is high end korean/indo production range. People need to stop putting them head to head with $3k+ customs and expect perfection.
Hollowway
Extended Ranger
Yeah for me, Kiesels under $2000 all day long. Those $3000 and $4000 ones are overpriced compared to other luthiers. $600 for a buckeye burl top is way more than I paid elsewhere for a buckeye burl top. And then there's the Jeff upcharge foe him picking a top. And there was a guy on the kiesel bbs that said he got a NAMM build that had a $1500 top! Certain luthiers will charge more for certain options. Some thins from Kiesel are cheap, and no brainers, like SS frets. Even their shipping is super reasonable. Other options seem to cost way more than their worth. But yeah, the base specs are inexpensive options are just killer.
SnowfaLL
Well-Known Member
Well, Suhr's normal 2 piece tops are a good $200-300 higher than Kiesels.. For a carved top, the Suhr is $900 while a Kiesel is $600 for a quilted top. Buckeye burl isnt listed but I'm sure its higher than Kiesel.
Everything else looks pretty similar except $200 cheaper on a sparkle finish. Straight from the Suhr spec guide
http://www.mattsmusic.com/Suhr-2013-Custom-Guitars-Price-List-MSRP.pdf
Everything else looks pretty similar except $200 cheaper on a sparkle finish. Straight from the Suhr spec guide
http://www.mattsmusic.com/Suhr-2013-Custom-Guitars-Price-List-MSRP.pdf
No one pays MSRP. Ever. It's 2017, does this still need to be pointed out?
Doesn't hurt that, on average, the Suhr is an objectively better guitar if similarly spec'd.
But these comparisons are silly and completely pointless given the difference in distribution and sales. Dealer network vs. factory direct and all. If we want to be really pedantic we could argue that if Carvin's were subject to even the most conservative examples of music retail mark-up they'd be even more expensive than Suhr.
SnowfaLL
Well-Known Member
No one pays MSRP. Ever. It's 2017, does this still need to be pointed out?
Doesn't hurt that, on average, the Suhr is an objectively better guitar if similarly spec'd.
But these comparisons are silly and completely pointless given the difference in distribution and sales. Dealer network vs. factory direct and all. If we want to be really pedantic we could argue that if Carvin's were subject to even the most conservative examples of music retail mark-up they'd be even more expensive than Suhr.
Sure, we could argue about theories like that (what about if Gibson was factory direct?? Would that change the whole guitar world??) but the real-life Facts are that Carvin/Kiesel's are much cheaper than a similar spec'd Suhr by a large margin.
narad
Progressive metal and politics
But the facts are also that you're quoting numbers that aren't comparable, as Max pointed out. You have to move from MSRP -> street because Kiesel does direct distribution. So the fact is that people don't pay $900 for a quilt maple upgrade with Suhr.
So yes, a budget Kiesel is cheaper than a comparably spec'd budget Suhr. A premium Kiesel is not necessarily significantly cheaper than a comparably spec'd Suhr, because Suhr doesn't gouge so much on options.
