NGD - Daemoness Cimmerian

[Blytheryn]

I get it - in some ways it is a bold statement and stands out as special because of brand knowledge of what it could have been but decided not to

This is exactly what I had in mind.

 

[Bettershredthandead]

I'm feeling similar tbh. Actually the money doesn't bother me, but the whole idea of going for some wild artistic custom has just grown... stale for me. I definitely got caught up in some hype that I now regret.

Ordering some battleaxe theme guitar sound very cool on paper. But at the end of the day it might not suit you if you're a skinny, decidedly non-viking computer nerd. Same for me - some sort of "metal" build just feels pretty stupid for a grown up married guy with children and a very proper job. I don't even have any tattoos, haha.

And yeah, the Daemoness I played was a nice guitar but not set up in the way I like, so I definitely wouldn't say it was "otherworldly".

Nonsense. I'm 6'9", nothing but walking muscle, live in parts unknown of the cold desolate genocidal Eurasian steppes and often times throw my children into a pit of wild feral man eating dogs to see if they can survive and fend for themselves. If they don't, I go on a raid, grab another woman and make another. I just so happen to have wi-fi here. That and a starbucks around the corner from my yurt....

I played one Daemoness Cimmerian, at the shop. It was nice. Didn't blow me away or anything. Definitely wasn't "otherworldly".

But - the neck wasn't to my taste, action was super, super low which also isn't to my taste. Super hard to judge an entire brand by one guitar that you play once, especially when the brand will build anything. There's a possibility he could have made the perfect guitar for me.

And of course it's really subjective. I went to the ESP shop in Tokyo and played maybe 15 Horizons (Ltd, Eii, Original and custom shops) before I chose mine. Money isn't a factor, and I ended up picking an Eii, which was the absolute best guitar I played. But someone else might have picked a different guitar.

So I notice there seems to be some confusion between 'otherwordly'/'feel' and 'setup'. I will do my best to clarify here: so I can 'setup' almost any guitar I like and make it playable along the fret board so long as there isn't anything seriously wrong with it. I've done that plenty of times by simply making bridge adjustments, swapping out the strings, and adjusting the truss rod. This is exactly how my first custom order guitar came to me - the Blackat. It had a questionable 'setup' which the company is known for. However I was able to make said adjustments, and now the thing is fine and plays well in regards to its action.

'Feel' and 'otherwordly' is more like how is the radius of the neck like? How does it feel when you run your fingers over the fret board in regards to 'smoothness'? Usually this alludes to how well the fret work was done. Also is it contoured well in all the right places so it feels good against the body and on the right hand so its nice and ergonomic etc. etc. These are actually things I found lacking with the Blackat experience a tad here and there. These are really things that are out of my control and that are solely the job of the luthier to get right. Unless I choose the wrong spec here or there particularly for let's say neck profile, but enough there...

And yeah I've been to that Edwards shop too in Tokyo. My last favs when running through the Tokyo guitar districts were a J-custom I played and a Caparison Horus. Really wish I left Tokyo with the Horus back in 2018.

 

[Bettershredthandead]

I think it's not a good comparison. For instance, with the Atlantean, I got a rough quote for the guitar knowing that I wanted some full fretboard inlay (I was really into PRS dragons). I think the range in the upper and lower bound on that quote was around $800. When he actually started building it and designing the inlay and we confirmed about it, then we agreed on the actual price.

Comparisons to companies that don't do fancy things don't seem ..well...comparable.

But ya, I seem to recall the estimates given out at the time of joining the waitlist to be provided in a very non-binding "rough estimate" sort of way. Am I wrong? Anyone's quote say specifically it will absolutely cost exactly $X and then he actually charged $X+$Y?

The custom art pricing is an entirely different matter....

I'm talking about having a sheet with prices for your specs like type of body (V, Strat, LP type etc.) among other things just like Tomek provides his customers. I mean, its not like Blackat doesn't have a myriad of different options you go can through and choose from. There are prices clearly provided on that initial sheet and any quote you get from Tomek prior would be in line with what's on that sheet.

Note: I am not saying that Blackat is as artistic as Daemoness or perhaps even refined. However, that end of the business process I have described above is handled extremely well by Tomek.

I mean, look at all the confusion there is here on this thread with the Daemoness pricing among not only myself but others. Surely that speaks for itself.

 

[Blytheryn]

The custom art pricing is an entirely different matter....

I'm talking about having a sheet with prices for your specs like type of body (V, Strat, LP type etc.) among other things just like Tomek provides his customers. I mean, its not like Blackat doesn't have a myriad of different options you go can through and choose from. There are prices clearly provided on that initial sheet and any quote you get from Tomek prior would be in line with what's on that sheet.

Note: I am not saying that Blackat is as artistic as Daemoness or perhaps even refined. However, that end of the business process I have described above is handled extremely well by Tomek.

I mean, look at all the confusion there is here on this thread with the Daemoness pricing among not only myself but others. Surely that speaks for itself.

It’s stated either in the intro email or on the website somewhere that the basic guitar or regardless of shape costs like 2k GBP. 7’s cost more. Hardware is added on top and then any blingage you decided to tack on.

 

[mehegama]

They're not designed without intention. That would be like accidentally designing a guitar. Though the Shoggie does look like some sort of outline one might draw doing some sort of subconscious doodling.

I was saying that if you look at a Skervesn and say that's hideous, and you look at my Atlanean and say that's hideous, well, there was some intention of making that guitar a bit more jarring to the eyes than presumably was there when Skervesen was designing the Shoggie. I think they were trying to make a nice-looking guitar shape there and just failed. Didn't they have a Swan or something like that back in the day that was similarly disproportioned but kiiinda okay? It looked like the Shoggie was just the headless hack on the Swan general lines.

I'll summarize in 2 points:

1.) It's not hard to design a guitar. Finding one or two shapes in a line-up isn't much of a defense of a guitar brand's design skills. Look across the entire Skervesen portfolio of shapes and I see far more misses than I see hits. I see far more twists on what was popular than anything that shows some artistic talent, or creative vision. Which is not surprising for a brand that came to SSO as basically everyone's blackmachine clone brand.

2.) In the design field there is the idea of "design language", of having some consistent theme or style that's repeated across different instances. Padalka is a great example of having an established design language -- you can see those kind of concave bits and immediately know it's a Padalka, even if you haven't seen exactly that shape before. If I magically made up a guitar, you could tell me if it's like a Fender or not. The Ken Lawrence headstock he uses on explorers, singlecuts, and basses, are all a bit different, but they all have clear design features that are Ken's (the main point, the fins, slight asymmetry in the fins). I think Skervesen is a terrible design brand because they have no design consistency, besides riffing on other people's shapes.

If you show me some random guitar and ask me if it's a Skervesen, I think, well, does it have a bunch off odd "edgy" bits for no reason, and is it popular with some terrible color scheme like it's designed by a jr high student? Or is it nice looking, but terribly generic (like when they actually get a customer with some taste, like that Nebulung)? Can't really say they established themselves with anything uniquely them. I even think Kiesel does a better job ( ::gasp:: )

I think you are making some really bold statements here. The swan I guess is not for everyone, the same way the Atlantean is not for everybody. The Raptor, the Nebelung, the Kallisti are unique takes on the superstrat which I really like. The Shoggie is their take on Strandberg, which is almost identical. Padalka has some super standard designs and some really crazy ones (which I dont like - especially the strandberg style ones). As for Dylan's designs, his takes on the superstrat, V, LP, Mockingbird etc are almost identical to the originals.
Also their finishes are beautiful, or better, they are implemented beautifully. The guitars play very well (for the vast majority of the builds) and as a shop you ll never have the issues you have with Dylan, so I m really thinking try one with them.

 

[Bettershredthandead]

It’s stated either in the intro email or on the website somewhere that the basic guitar or regardless of shape costs like 2k GBP. 7’s cost more. Hardware is added on top and then any blingage you decided to tack on.

Yes. It is. Somewhere. Few things here though:

1) was it always 2k in pounds?

2) what exactly were the final end prices of Cimmerians throughout the years? How much has inflation really set into the price?

3) the initial pricing quote seemed off that Dylan provided. Barnes said in an email later to me that even the humblest of any Daemoness build would not come in around 3700 USD.

4) I ultimately think that this part of the business process could use some tightening up/improvement by Daemoness.

 

[mehegama]

4) I ultimately think that this part of yhe business process could use some tightening up/improvement by Daemoness.

All parts of his business process need improvement. His statement was welcome but he did not address most of the issues: The road map to reduce the delays, the communication issues, what happened with the OP's guitar etc/ These are the very important questions that need answers if he wants people to regain trust on him.
He pretty much said, it is what it is and those affected by delays can opt for a refund, which again is very welcome and I m glad he said so, but imo it is not enough for people to regain their trust on him.

 

[Bettershredthandead]

All parts of his business process need improvement. His statement was welcome but he did not address most of the issues: The road map to reduce the delays, the communication issues, what happened with the OP's guitar etc/ These are the very important questions that need answers if he wants people to regain trust on him.
He pretty much said, it is what it is and those affected by delays can opt for a refund, which again is very welcome and I m glad he said so, but imo it is not enough for people to regain their trust on him.

Yeah I have to admit I was being nice but also brief as this thread unfortunately is taking up alot of my time these days which is not good but given what I have invested in the build I feel overly compelled...

I'd like to get some sort of resolution here too. This whole process did not go well unfortunately but I have not heard from Dylan yet.

Que @IbanezDaemon for another nudge to Dylan to get back to me? (insert nervous smile emoticon here)

 

[mehegama]

Yeah I have to admit I was being nice but also brief as this thread unfortunately is taking up alot of my time these days which is not good but given what I have invested in the build I feel overly compelled...

I'd like to get some sort of resolution here too. This whole process did not go well unfortunately but I have not heard from Dylan yet.

Que @IbanezDaemon for another nudge to Dylan to get back to me? (insert nervous smile emoticon here)

Seems I m the only one to have heard from him so far. Try the gmail again

 

[narad]

I think you are making some really bold statements here. The swan I guess is not for everyone, the same way the Atlantean is not for everybody. The Raptor, the Nebelung, the Kallisti are unique takes on the superstrat which I really like. The Shoggie is their take on Strandberg, which is almost identical. Padalka has some super standard designs and some really crazy ones (which I dont like - especially the strandberg style ones). As for Dylan's designs, his takes on the superstrat, V, LP, Mockingbird etc are almost identical to the originals.
Also their finishes are beautiful, or better, they are implemented beautifully. The guitars play very well (for the vast majority of the builds) and as a shop you ll never have the issues you have with Dylan, so I m really thinking try one with them.

You say the raptor is a unique take on a superstrat.
You say the shoggie is almost identical to a strandberg.
You say Dylan's Valkenbyrd is nearly identical to a Mockingbird.
You say Dylan's Chronicler is nearly identical to a Les Paul.

I mean... there's no point in talking these points with you any further. You might as well be telling me that the sky looks brown to you.

 

[Blytheryn]

Yes. It is. Somewhere. Few things here though:

1) was it always 2k in pounds?

2) what exactly were the final end prices of Cimmerians throughout the years? How much has inflation really set into the price?

3) the initial pricing quote seemed off that Dylan provided. Barnes said in an email later to me that even the humblest of any Daemoness build would not come in around 3700 USD.

4) I ultimately think that this part of the business process could use some tightening up/improvement by Daemoness.

1. I believe so? At least it’s been that for as long as I can remember.
2. I’ve got no way of knowing that. @IbanezDaemon would know because he’s got a few. Also these are going to vary wildly based on spec?

 

[narad]

All parts of his business process need improvement. His statement was welcome but he did not address most of the issues: The road map to reduce the delays, the communication issues, what happened with the OP's guitar etc/ These are the very important questions that need answers if he wants people to regain trust on him.
He pretty much said, it is what it is and those affected by delays can opt for a refund, which again is very welcome and I m glad he said so, but imo it is not enough for people to regain their trust on him.

Cancel culture at its finest. "not enough for people to regain their trust on him" -- it's like you and two other guys.

 

[Blytheryn]

Cancel culture at its finest. "not enough for people to regain their trust on him" -- it's like you and two other guys.

This entire thread is basically 3 dudes enforcing cancelling Dylan over the course of 65+ pages

 

[diagrammatiks]

I'm just going to put my head down and get these builds out.

ok dude from blackwater. how's that working out.

 

[narad]

This entire thread is basically 3 dudes enforcing cancelling Dylan over the course of 65+ pages

Yea, "I choose not to acknowledge the words 'As a guide, ..., but please be aware that this may vary depending on the complexity of our upcoming builds', and now I'm not happy so you should restructure your entire business to my liking.

 

[Bettershredthandead]

So I just googled the term 'cancel culture' as I have actually never heard the term used before until I actually saw it here on this thread as I'm not into trendy word crap. And I am 99.9% sure that both you guys are actually applying it incorrectly to this situation.

Its more for like SJW stuff and or viewing someone as 'evil'. As far as I know, I don't think any of these two things apply to Dylan. Something has just gone wrong with the brand from a business end with Daemoness which has been acknowledged even though there were alleged attempts to try and improve upon this situation. And so now a resolution or path forward has been proposed by Dylan.

No one's trying to 'cancel out' Dylan. That's just absurd.

 

[mehegama]

You say the raptor is a unique take on a superstrat.
You say the shoggie is almost identical to a strandberg.
You say Dylan's Valkenbyrd is nearly identical to a Mockingbird.
You say Dylan's Chronicler is nearly identical to a Les Paul.

I mean... there's no point in talking these points with you any further. You might as well be telling me that the sky looks brown to you.

i m going to tell you something, and i really hope it will not destroy your worldview: Your opinions are not the universal truth. In particular noone gives 3 flying fucks about your or my opinions. We are just some rando nerds in the internet exchanging opinions. If you cannot engage yourself in conversation and exchange opinions in a nice way with someone that happens to disagree with you, that is not something that will help you in life in general.

Yes I love the raptor's curves especially the carved one. The chronicler has the standard LP curves, only he shaved some wood on the curves, but other than that it is a standard single cut. The Valkenbyrd is almost identical with just a slightly longer upper horn and a small split on the bottom. Even the name should have given you some hints. As for the shoggie, here is a strandberg:

and here is a Shoggie:


If you don't find these two almost identical, i think you should go and check your eyes.

 

[narad]

i m going to tell you something, and i really hope it will not destroy your worldview: Your opinions are not the universal truth. In particular noone gives 3 flying fucks about your or my opinions. We are just some rando nerds in the internet exchanging opinions. If you cannot engage yourself in conversation and exchange opinions in a nice way with someone that happens to disagree with you, that is not something that will help you in life in general.

Yes I love the raptor's curves especially the carved one. The chronicler has the standard LP curves, only he shaved some wood on the curves, but other than that it is a standard single cut. The Valkenbyrd is almost identical with just a slightly longer upper horn and a small split on the bottom. Even the name should have given you some hints. As for the shoggie, here is a strandberg:
View attachment 83574
and here is a Shoggie:
View attachment 83575

If you don't find these two almost identical, i think you should go and check your eyes.

God, every time someone posts a Shoggie I regret my decision to get LASIK surgery.. I mean, the lower bout looks like a god damn Shrek ear.

Yea, I mean, these are not at all identical. As I said before, there is no point discussing this further with you. I will let the readers of the thread decide if they think a shoggie is almost identical to a strandberg, and in doing so, whether your opinion on these things has any merit at all.

 

[mehegama]

Cancel culture at its finest. "not enough for people to regain their trust on him" -- it's like you and two other guys.

I think you need to recheck the definition of cancel culture. Dylan himself told me my guitar is not coming anytime soon and admitted he cannot deliver the timelines he himself set. And ,to his honour, he offers a way out via refunds.
Regarding trust, it is my opinion that if he does not give explanations about all the issues with the OP's guitar, the road map on how to get out of this situation and the ghosting, people will have issues trusting him with their money. You may disagree with this but trying to create enemies, accusing me for cancel culture and demonizing others is not a helpful tactic at all.

God, every time someone posts a Shoggie I regret my decision to get LASIK surgery.. I mean, the lower bout looks like a god damn Shrek ear.

Yea, I mean, these are not at all identical. As I said before, there is no point discussing this further with you. I will let the readers of the thread decide if they think a shoggie is almost identical to a strandberg, and in doing so, whether your opinion on these things has any merit at all.

You seem always to seek some kind of self confirmation in this forum. It does not matter if 10 people agree with you and 2 with me or the other way around. It's not going to change anything in the real world

As for the Shoggie, what can i say.. the other day you said that 60 months is approximately 30, even though as a bad approximation so I m not surprised that you find these two not identical at all..

 

[SamSam]

Regarding trust, it is my opinion that if he does not give explanations about all the issues with the OP's guitar, the road map on how to get out of this situation and the ghosting, people will have issues trusting him with their money. You may disagree with this but trying to create enemies, accusing me for cancel culture and demonizing others is not a helpful tactic at all.

If you cannot trust Dylan unless he addresses the OP's flawed build then I would suggest you contact Skerv and ask them to explain what happened to over a dozen of their builds with flaws. In fact the original black machine copy that got people interested in Skerv in the first place was rats nest of faults and issues. That is of course if you have an interest in buying one.

Honestly I think the best way forward is to get your refund and move on. No answer he gives regarding that build will be satisfactory and likely raise more questions as a result. We haven't seen other guitars with flaws on that level from Dylan, and personally, considering it is one guitar. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on the building front and accept that it's a duffer that of course shouldn't have been sent out. But it's one guitar. Skerv have shat out plenty of shit planks in their time.

The probability of you getting a bad guitar from Dylan right now is pretty damn low, single digit low, perhaps even less than 1% (I do not know how many guitars he has finished over the last decade). But you have to decide whether it's worth the wait. I understand it's frustrating not knowing a specific timescale. But that is the nature of his work unfortunately, since the builds vary so much and the 20 odd guitars in front of yours won't have finalised specs. Just like some have decided to go simpler with their builds I am sure there are a few individuals out there who have gone the complete opposite route and now want decked out art pieces, and that could easily double the build time for those instruments.