NGD: Most notorius or infamous guitar ever?

[mmr007]

So...I am a huge Hanneman fan no secret there and my two favorite guitars of all time are his punk rock Jackson Soloist and his Raiders/Reagan's In ESP. If there is anyone actually unaware back in 2004 when Jeff was getting his own sig with ESP it was initially released with an inlay coined S & key which was the unit insignia of the 12th SS panzer division which was formed by former Hitler Youth (intended I guess to make them ideologically pure militarily?) and this unit commited war crimes againsts Canadien military POWs....as opposed to all the other SS who obeyed human rights laws

So after a handful of ESP (8 black 4 camo) and LTDs (16 black and 8 camo... exact unknown) were released, ESP was rightfully told to knock it off (plus it seemed unlikely that many markets would even legally allow this guitar to be sold so ESP had financial incentive to come to their senses) and production was cancelled

Anyway I found this LTD and struggled with deciding on the purchase. I love Hanneman, love Slayer but was very uncomfortable with the fret inlay. I am "fine" with the eagle which "flirts" with imagery (but it is the Slayer eagle and not a direct copy of the TR eagle) but this is straight up SS iconography and I have had very dear friends who were holocaust survivors (they've since passed away). I consider myself extremely liberal and I wear a Covid mask even when I don't need to so nobody mistakes me for a Trump supporter let alone a nazi sympathizer because of a guitar I want to own.

I was discussing my dilemma with my son over the phone asking if owning this guitar would make me a hypocrite and apparently during the conversation he went online and bought it and said..."you should have it at your place within a week" Well...decision made for me I guess. I paid him back and awaited the guitar you see here.

I have decided to post it here because I believe this is an interesting guitar despite the horrible and controversial inlays (btw...even if they weren't related to war criminals they are still actually ugly inlays aesthetically)

I don't know if it's because this was the first batch of a limited guitar or what but quality wise I would put this up there with a custom shop. My other Hanneman feels like an entry level guitar compared to this thing...better than any high end Gibson or Ibanez I have ever played (never played a PRS or anything so can't compare)

Also it is wider at the nut than later Hanneman's and one thing to note...this guitar is HEAVY AS FUCK....not tone wise...weight wise. I nearly dislocated my shoulder when I went to lift it. Hannemans in general I have found to be heavy guitars but this thing feels like it is damn near 13lbs or more. Apparently for 2004 only and for LTD only, not ESP, the Hanneman S & key body was 100% maple not alder. And of course FR instead of a traditional Kahler because apparently there was no manufactuing of new kahlers at the time so all Hanneman's not meant for Jeff himself had FR for a brief period

Perfect condition. Plastic still on truss rod cover and all back plates and no scratches or dings and all case candy still with OHSC.




Now...as stated before elsewhere...this guitar has everything I need (and one thing I don't..a feeling of guilt and slight embarassment) so ESP....PLEASE...PLEASE....PLEASE release this guitar with simple dot inlays. His original guitar was dot inlays and some of us don't make ESP money to custom order so....ditch the very limited appeal inlays including the current one...and make it a dot inlay

 

[USMarine75]

Well if you ever get bored of it I'm sure Curt Schilling will pay you handsomely for it.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

lol from the title I was expecting his totenkopf/waffen ss inlays, not these.

 

[mmr007]

lol from the title I was expecting his totenkopf/waffen ss inlays, not these.

click bait...still learning how to use it effectively

anyway I don't think the totenkopfs were ever available to the public except maybe as a custom shop

 

[manu80]

Well it’s a tough decision to make
You can still say it’s the S from kiss... true fans will know, the other will of course say it’s outrageous
I remember the modified version with the H and the dague in the middle but never seen the one
A pentagram would have worked too...
Had a dilemna of buying the dean cadillac sig from cannibal corpse guitariste 2 months before having my kid...and i didnt do it....

 

[Andromalia]

The most notorious guitar ever is the one Hendrix burned on stage. I don't think any guitar will ever beat that one.

 

[USMarine75]

lol from the title I was expecting his totenkopf/waffen ss inlays, not these.

Never mind then, Schilling is no longer interested.

 

[josh1]

What is with Slayer and Nazi imagery?

 

[Blytheryn]

What is with Slayer and Nazi imagery?

They did it to be edgy.

 

[Musiscience]

Except for the inlays, it looks super nice and extremely playable. Congrats on the NGD

It just dawned on me that a Japanese company, of all nationalities, accepted to go ahead with building these. Might have wanted to keep a low profile on this given their side on that war. Oh well.

Edit: can't type to save my life on a phone.

 

[josh1]

They did it to be edgy.

Oh, ok. I never cared for them and the Nazi stuff is really lame and try-hard.

 

[c7spheres]

You can still own stuff and not subscribe to it's ideology. People do it all the time with pentagrams and crosses for example. Specifically because they look "cool".

- Nazi imagery does look pretty cool, especially the eagle stuff. It's just a shame what it represents.

- Maybe you can use it to educate people or tell the story of the people you knew while playing them a song. Irony.

 

[narad]

If your focus with the guitar the connection to the artist you like, I think by all means. It's all used stuff now so it's not like the "vote by your dollar" fuels hate. I just wouldn't be playing it out.

I think it's just a personal thing -- even if someone wants to collect nazi memorabilia I have no problem with it, if it stems from curiosity or some sentiment separate from the atrocities. But it just happens that the only guy I know who does this is of german descent and gets drunk and talks about aryan genes. But in theory! lol

For me the ESP kamikaze was in my top 3 must-haves when I saw it as a crazy cool design with the lynch connection. But as time went on, I stopped being able to see it that way, regardless of whatever those guys were thinking when they made it. Now I just really detest it.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

You can still own stuff and not subscribe to it's ideology. People do it all the time with pentagrams and crosses for example. Specifically because they look "cool".

- Nazi imagery does look pretty cool, especially the eagle stuff. It's just a shame what it represents.

- Maybe you can use it to educate people or tell the story of the people you knew while playing them a song. Irony.

The imperial eagle has history dating back far further than the third reich, back to the austro hungarian empire/napoleonic france and the romans. Hell the german govt still uses the adler nowadays sans the swastika. The eagle itself isn't a problem, it's the swastika and the connotation that holds in modern context.

 

[mmr007]

One could argue that the Nazi chic imagery that Slayer used was "trying too hard" but the same could be said of bands like Behemoth and their satanic imagery...it's all theater in the end

Honestly I don't believe Jeff harbored true Nazi sympathies. First of all if you are a true racist you aren't good friends with and start a punk band with Rocky George as Jeff did.

I believe he was very comfortable...too comfortable with using certain imagery and iconography because it represented the pinnacle of evil (the SS were the biggest and worst mass murderers in history) and perhaps he was not concerned with the ideology behind it....he has been recorded stating he has no interest in neonazi ideology. If I felt for a second that Hanneman supported some sort of neonazi beliefs I wouldn't listen to his music or collect his gear (or the cheaper LTD versions of it) not even as a novelty

Anyway I don't want to get off track but since I posted pics of my run of the mill chinese made Epiphone SG on NGD it seemed weird not to post the hardest to find most controversial guitar imaginable from my favorite artist of all time especially when the build is such high quality.

I view this purchase as the equivalent as somebody forking over what a car costs to buy a Swirl DNA Jem because it has a few drops of the artist's blood in the paint. If you are a huge Vai fan you understand and it makes sense...if you aren't...you don't. If that makes sense....

 

[c7spheres]

The imperial eagle has history dating back far further than the third reich, back to the austro hungarian empire/napoleonic france and the romans. Hell the german govt still uses the adler nowadays sans the swastika. The eagle itself isn't a problem, it's the swastika and the connotation that holds in modern context.

- Similar to how they ripped off the eastern imagery with the swastika. It's similar enough that it will always have a bad connotation. To bad they had to appropriate these images because some of them do look pretty cool.

- As a side thought; It's gotta be just a coincidence that those inlays are the same as the symbol Leon Todd uses in his videos right? I can't imagine him being like that but I guess you never know. Someone should let Leon know it comes off as cringey.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

- Similar to how they ripped off the eastern imagery with the swastika. It's similar enough that it will always have a bad connotation. To bad they had to appropriate these images because some of them do look pretty cool.

- As a side thought; It's gotta be just a coincidence that those inlays are the same as the symbol Leon Todd uses in his videos right? I can't imagine him being like that but I guess you never know. Someone should let Leon know it comes off as cringey.

Yeah hitler was a huge fan of napoleon (who was a huge fan of rome), hence the appropriation of the imperial eagle/aquila standard (among other things). Reichsadler basically means imperial eagle in german.

Eagles are relatively common symbols/insignias worldwide though. A bunch of countries use them (mexico, usa, american samoa, montenegro, germany, virgin islands).

I would guess it's a coincidence he uses that type of eagle. Then again it's not like he's going to come out and say he's a wehraboo neonazi or something lol. That would be beyond stupid

 

[c7spheres]

...

I would guess it's a coincidence he uses that type of eagle. Then again it's not like he's going to come out and say he's a wehraboo neonazi or something lol. That would be beyond stupid

Interserting stuff for sure.
I was talking about the "S" bolt symbol. It's in his videos and looks to much like it to be comfortable. I think it's supposed to be an L and T mashed together or something but I don't see a letter T in there.

- I seriously doubt LT is into this stuff because he seems to chill for that. He's seems like more of a stoner hippie dude to me. I like Leon Todd because he seems like a dude I'd like to chill and jam with. Here's a screen shot of it though for reference. I don't want to start a big debate about Leon Todd though. But thus looks exactly the same.

 

[manu80]

Love that guy. Cool, good player, nice songs and his smile in his videos is very communicative. Sorry off debate

 

[budda]

Why did I think this thread was gonna be about Willie Nelson's Trigger?

A: because I didnt see "ngd"