Official Daemoness Guitars Thread

[SalsaWood]

But Reverb offers buyers plenty of protection, no?

It really depends. In the case of no ship then yes, in the case of the item being flawed then pretty much no in reality. They have recently changed their policy so that if you need to dispute the transaction they have first and last say on what happens, typically running the buyer and seller into each other repeatedly until a resolution Reverb can keep a cut of is agreed upon- usually to the dissatisfaction of the shorted party who just wanted to buy a fucking guitar. Before that folks' only recourse was disputing the transaction with their bank or PayPal while Reverb pulls their cute little bank/not-a-bank who is asleep at the wheel arbitration. Now if that is done they will breach the ToS and Reverb can tell them to go fuck their hat.

Most folks don't realize that buyer protection through your bank exists and can be very helpful. Reverb acting as a third party escrow really puts a target on their back between private parties when Reverb advertises, but doesn't actually render, protection services. That's why they changed the ToS. FWIW I've had better deals and sales through Guitar Center of all places, and they have no problems with untangling customer satisfaction IME. I've never gotten a good guitar off of Reverb in comparison.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

But Reverb offers buyers plenty of protection, no? If he's conducting transactions on reverb by the book that's a good thing for people who want to buy his stuff.

He sells "pre-orders" on Reverb. So if you buy something by the time you know you've been scammed it's months past whatever time frame Reverb, and banks for that matter, offer to help in.

 

[soul_lip_mike]

He sells "pre-orders" on Reverb. So if you buy something by the time you know you've been scammed it's months past whatever time frame Reverb, and banks for that matter, offer to help in.

I didn't know reverb allowed that. Today I learned.

 

[Sermo Lupi]

It really depends. In the case of no ship then yes, in the case of the item being flawed then pretty much no in reality. They have recently changed their policy so that if you need to dispute the transaction they have first and last say on what happens, typically running the buyer and seller into each other repeatedly until a resolution Reverb can keep a cut of is agreed upon- usually to the dissatisfaction of the shorted party who just wanted to buy a fucking guitar. Before that folks' only recourse was disputing the transaction with their bank or PayPal while Reverb pulls their cute little bank/not-a-bank who is asleep at the wheel arbitration. Now if that is done they will breach the ToS and Reverb can tell them to go fuck their hat.

Most folks don't realize that buyer protection through your bank exists and can be very helpful. Reverb acting as a third party escrow really puts a target on their back between private parties when Reverb advertises, but doesn't actually render, protection services. That's why they changed the ToS. FWIW I've had better deals and sales through Guitar Center of all places, and they have no problems with untangling customer satisfaction IME. I've never gotten a good guitar off of Reverb in comparison.

I've no patience for companies offering services they cannot render, particularly online marketplaces who gut their customer support systems because they feel they shouldn't be held to the same standards as a brick-and-mortar. However, it's been the case since the beginning of internet commerce that transactions boil down to two people communicating clearly, putting contingencies in place, and being realistic about outcomes if something goes wrong.

It's a cliche at this point that someone goes online to complain about being 'scammed' after they took foolish risks as a buyer, and the comments are filled with kneejerk reactions to do a chargeback via their bank as if it isn't an absolute last resort.

Provided that the buyer and seller did their due diligence with one another, I mostly agree with Reverb that the best way to handle any issues usually is to work it out between yourselves. That's why you ask any questions beforehand and use shipping insurance.

Not everyone handles bad news the same way, and that's often why customer support is necessary. You can wind up being blamed for something that isn't your fault because the other party is mad and wants to use you as their punching bag. Hopefully, you communicate enough before the sale to weed out those kind of people.

I had a trade last year that looked like it was going sideways once I learned the seller was not being completely forthright, but I was able to work it out with the seller by talking it through. Being adults about it is the only thing that helps.

That's the thing with Guitar Center, right? Neither the company nor its staff are necessarily on your side, but at least you can walk into a store or pick up a phone and talk to someone about your issue. If you have a legitimate grievance, hopefully someone behaves like a human being somewhere along the way.

If all e-commerce buyers and sellers were as open as that in their written communication, there'd be far fewer problems. That's why I'm a bit leery of the chargeback crowd.

He sells "pre-orders" on Reverb. So if you buy something by the time you know you've been scammed it's months past whatever time frame Reverb, and banks for that matter, offer to help in.

Reverb offers a week of buyer's protection, from receipt of delivery. No idea how that applies in the case of pre-orders. I've noticed other shops do the same (e.g. Diablo Guitars putting up pre-orders for CS Jacksons that are still 6-12 months from delivery).

 

[SalsaWood]

If your bank offers you buyer's protection in private party sales you should probably blow them for it because they are not very inclined to do so. Reverb acting as an escrow service without actually being one in reality is what puts them in the middle of it at all. They're basically trying to be a bank, but they aren't, and are subject to the same consumer protection protocols the banks exercise upon them. If they were just a listing marketplace they could very easily sit back and tell folks tough tiddies, not our fault you shipped your guitar to a ten year old in Ohio and didn't get paid, but they aren't just a listing marketplace. That's what makes it tricky for them and why folks go there, but the reality of their service is pretty much dog shit in my experience.

 

[soul_lip_mike]

If your bank offers you buyer's protection in private party sales you should probably blow them for it because they are not very inclined to do so. Reverb acting as an escrow service without actually being one in reality is what puts them in the middle of it at all. They're basically trying to be a bank, but they aren't, and are subject to the same consumer protection protocols the banks exercise upon them. If they were just a listing marketplace they could very easily sit back and tell folks tough tiddies, not our fault you shipped your guitar to a ten year old in Ohio and didn't get paid, but they aren't just a listing marketplace. That's what makes it tricky for them and why folks go there, but the reality of their service is pretty much dog shit in my experience.

This reminds me of my credit card apparently having all sorts of warranty protection on purchases. I’ve never tried to use it and I don’t even know how I would. I should probably look into it because I’ve heard it can be handy.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

Anyone catch VictoriousWeapons (Kyle from Vitriol) on IG talking about getting his new Daemoness and that Mr. Scumbag himself is trying to start up shop again after running away with people money.

"The proceeds will go toward finishing my new Daemoness, which has been handed over to Lee at @gmw_guitarworks for its finishing touches while Dylan is relocating the Daemoness HQ."

That sounds like Kyle made Dylan send his incomplete build to someone else to be finished. A few people here have done similar things with builders gone MIA. Wether done as a friend or forced to part with the unfinished build it doesn't give much hope for the future of Daemoness.