Peavey 6505 20w amp?! Yup...

[Hawkevil]

You seem to be missing how IRs are made. Essentially a cab is miced up and the preamp out is also recorded, then the preamp signal is "subtracted" from the mic signal. All IRs have some sort of power amp in them and you would be hard-pressed to find one not using a tube power amp. What is it that you want to do, take the signal from the power amp output? Then what? You're still missing the speaker's coloration. What a cab sim does is impose an EQ curve on the output signal that mimics the EQ curve of a specific speaker. So in this amp you have the ability to record silently either with the preamp and an IR or the full amp and a cab sim. If you want a better option, put a damn mic on the cab.

Most commercial impulses like Redwire or Recabinet uses a flat power amp meaning it essentially takes it out of the equation. A lot of impulses keep the power amp engraved in the fliter yes, but definitely not all.

Add the fact that the 6505's tone relies quite heavily on the power amp section gives plenty of reason to want to record pre and power amp.

Okay, admittedly I had always assumed a line out was pre and power amp. I've never needed to use one before. The point still stands though, why give these options without the ability to have a pre and power amp output with no annoying EQ filter disguised as a mic sim?

 

[Sean Richardson]

Delivery to stores is been quoted as mid May. Makes sense if you consider that Namm is to launch, make initial stock orders (for Peavey) and take first round orders from resale outlets, about 4-5 weeks production in China, then international sea freight, local distribution. It may be latter or earlier depending on the vagaries of international manufacture and shipping...

 

[ESPImperium]

Id like to know the answer on the power tubes on the 6505 20W. Are they fixed bias or tubes id have to bias? With the tube safety circuit id think its fixed bias, anyone know? I tend to only go for fixed bias amps.

Im defiantly getting one of these heads to twin with a Mesa Mark V 25W depending on the bias question.

 

[Mordacain]

Id like to know the answer on the power tubes on the 6505 20W. Are they fixed bias or tubes id have to bias? With the tube safety circuit id think its fixed bias, anyone know? I tend to only go for fixed bias amps.

Im defiantly getting one of these heads to twin with a Mesa Mark V 25W depending on the bias question.

Peavey doesn't make any fixed bias amps that I'm aware of. Most people don't as there is no way save for an extensive screening process (which is why you have to buy Mesa-branded tubes) of getting any set of tubes to be 100% alike and that's what you need when you have a fixed voltage set for the tubes to operate at.

That being said, I'm sure the bias adjustment is the same as the Valveking Micro I had and that was SUPER easy to adjust. Basically, just pop the new tubes in, and adjust the bias trim pot until the TSI lights on the front go green. I really dig the TSI system though as I can run the tubes a bit hotter or colder depending on what I'm going for as there is a pretty wide sweetspot according to the TSI. The only problem with it is that the trim pot is only accessible by removing the chassis from the head shell.

 

[Mordacain]

My assumption was that the USB/XLR signal is post power amp and load. I do not, however, know that to be true. You could be right. I haven't seen any tech specs yet from this amp detailed enough to tell. But, since it has a speaker defeat switch and a 3-position attenuation switch it just seems massively silly that the signal wouldn't be post-power amp and load.

Sure about one thing, though, if it is a simple preamp tap with a cab/mic sim it's going to sound like ass.

The USB/XLR outs are post power section. There is essentially another tap off the power output that feeds the simulation circuit / dummy load.

That assumes it's the same as the VKIIMH which given it is essentially the same chassis & MSDI / dummy load circuit stands to reason.

 

[Mordacain]

There's a possibility that it might not come with a footswitch at all. There are two TRS jacks on the back: one for rhythm/lead and crunch on/off, and one for reverb on/off and fx on/off.

It has 4 footswitchable functions, but there's no text anywhere yet that suggests a footswitch is actually included.

I'm going to hedge my bets that a footswitch is not included.

The 6505MH and Classic 20MH are all in the same price bracket $499 (same as the VKIIMH); the ValveKingIIMH did not include a footswitch, so I would doubt it for either of these.

That being said, any latching footswitch will do most likely as it did with the VKIIMH.

 

[MetalDestroyer]

The point still stands though, why give these options without the ability to have a pre and power amp output with no annoying EQ filter disguised as a mic sim?

Because it's not feasible from a commercial standpoint. Peavey would not only have to have the dummy load (which they do), they would also have to put in another step-up transformer to get the output signal to line level. Then they would have to find more space on the back panel to put in another output and, as you said, the sound is affected by the power amp. But ask yourself, would you really want the el84s' sound stamped in your recorded tone? Probably not. Maybe in the full version, but probably not in this one. Then you would have to run it through an IR to simulate a cabinet, which may or may not already include a tube power amp. I know mine do, but I don't use "commercial" IRs, I use ones people made with big tube amps. There's a limit to versatility that can be achieved in conjunction with economy, and I think most would judge these add-ins to not be worth it. Regardless of what you do, if you aren't recording a big amp cranked with a mic, it isn't going to sound like a big amp with a mic. I think Peavey has given plenty of options in this amp-certainly more than any other amp available aside from the Mark V 25, and at well under half the price.

 

[Blasphemer]

You seem to be missing how IRs are made. Essentially a cab is miced up and the preamp out is also recorded, then the preamp signal is "subtracted" from the mic signal.

Nope. Thats definitely not true. Pretty much every IR is made by putting pink noise directly into a power stage, bypassing the preamp completely. Sometimes this is done with a guitar head by putting the signal directly into the effects return, and other times by using a flat response poweramp. The preamp is nowhere in the equation at all.

All IRs have some sort of power amp in them and you would be hard-pressed to find one not using a tube power amp.

The first half of your statement is true, but as was said earlier - many IRs use a solid state poweramp, such as one you would use for a PA. They don't have the sonic qualities that a guitar power amp has; They're much more flat in their output.

What is it that you want to do, take the signal from the power amp output?

Yes, that's exactly what I want to do. I can still have the tube saturation, compression, and coloration from the power amp stage, but still put my own speaker IRs on them, the IR essentially being a very high definition EQ, nothing more.


Sorry if that came off as dickish, it wasn't my intent, it just seemed like a lot of false information all in once place

 

[MetalDestroyer]

Many corrections

It's all good, I made a mistake. See my above post

 

[Omura]

The USB/XLR outs are post power section. There is essentially another tap off the power output that feeds the simulation circuit / dummy load.

That assumes it's the same as the VKIIMH which given it is essentially the same chassis & MSDI / dummy load circuit stands to reason.

The video mentioned that all the peavey mini amps use the same chassis/back plate, can anyone with a vkiimh tell us how useable the USB out is?

 

[MetalThrasher]

I might not be sold on this unless a foot-switch is included.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

I don't know if Peavey even makes a separate 4-button FS with 2 TRS cables. All the 3+ button footswitches are DIN.

 

[Mordacain]

The video mentioned that all the peavey mini amps use the same chassis/back plate, can anyone with a vkiimh tell us how useable the USB out is?

The USB is useable, but is of low quality and has a slight background noise, so it will likely be less useful on the Classic 20 than the 6505. The louder you turn up the amp master the less noticeable it is. Of course, it's possible that they might have included higher quality DACs on the newer models.

The XLR is perfectly clear but Peavy's cab emulation is not great IMO. It's not bad for scratch takes or for feeding a PA in a live situation but I'd probably run the preamp out to another input and run recabinet or another IR loader with poweramp + cab impulses.

 

[Stijnson]

The USB is useable, but is of low quality and has a slight background noise, so it will likely be less useful on the Classic 20 than the 6505. The louder you turn up the amp master the less noticeable it is. Of course, it's possible that they might have included higher quality DACs on the newer models.

The XLR is perfectly clear but Peavy's cab emulation is not great IMO. It's not bad for scratch takes or for feeding a PA in a live situation but I'd probably run the preamp out to another input and run recabinet or another IR loader with poweramp + cab impulses.

The internal cab sim, even if it was great, would still be more useful if it could be turned off. So you can use others. Otherwise I dont really see the point of the DI outs. Get with the program Peavey, if Laney can do it so should you.

Either way, I was worried it might not have a internal dummy load, but the mini Valveking model has it, and considering the 6505 is basically the same chassis with the same options, it should have it too.
This means you can run it without a cab, and without the internal cab-sim, from the FX send to a DAW with power amp and cab emulation. Might even sound better then using those damn EL84's!

 

[Mordacain]

The internal cab sim, even if it was great, would still be more useful if it could be turned off. So you can use others. Otherwise I dont really see the point of the DI outs. Get with the program Peavey, if Laney can do it so should you.

Either way, I was worried it might not have a internal dummy load, but the mini Valveking model has it, and considering the 6505 is basically the same chassis with the same options, it should have it too.
This means you can run it without a cab, and without the internal cab-sim, from the FX send to a DAW with power amp and cab emulation. Might even sound better then using those damn EL84's!

I agree that they should also allow you to defeat the cab sim on any amp featuring them.

EL84s sound badass if the power section is tuned right though. Luckily the power section on my VKIIMH sounded awesome. Interesting note on the power attenuation, it is actually not really attenuation in the strict sense, but rather two different positions that bleed off a preset amount of power off to the dummy load. In theory that should have all settings sound pretty much the same. 20 and 5 watts do sound very close, with 1 watt having a bit more high frequency roll-off.

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

That's my biggest complaint with the Vypyr series. The amp models are VERY solid, as are the effects, but the cab sim is rather... not.

 

[edsped]

I don't know if Peavey even makes a separate 4-button FS with 2 TRS cables. All the 3+ button footswitches are DIN.

This is what I was getting at with the dual TRS jacks comment.

 

[ESPImperium]

Peavey doesn't make any fixed bias amps that I'm aware of. Most people don't as there is no way save for an extensive screening process (which is why you have to buy Mesa-branded tubes) of getting any set of tubes to be 100% alike and that's what you need when you have a fixed voltage set for the tubes to operate at.

That being said, I'm sure the bias adjustment is the same as the Valveking Micro I had and that was SUPER easy to adjust. Basically, just pop the new tubes in, and adjust the bias trim pot until the TSI lights on the front go green. I really dig the TSI system though as I can run the tubes a bit hotter or colder depending on what I'm going for as there is a pretty wide sweetspot according to the TSI. The only problem with it is that the trim pot is only accessible by removing the chassis from the head shell.

When you put it like that, I'm gonna get one. However, if the trim pot was a bit more accessible, it would be the perfect tube head. Will be the perfect compliment head for me. Bizarrely, the sound that sold me on it was the gain on channel 1 as it will be enough for me for the country stuff I'm going after at the moment. However, its the channel 2 stuff that will be ideal for the metal man in me to blow the tones that have been so unachievable with a Mesa for me, think Chimaira/Devil Driver tones, those more modern Drop C sounds from 2002 till present that have been very popular.

Need the UK price as this will be a very unexpected dent in my 2015 budget.

 

[Sean Richardson]

This just went up...

http://youtu.be/sbNflqDgpP4

 

[pawel]

Because it's not feasible from a commercial standpoint. Peavey would not only have to have the dummy load (which they do), they would also have to put in another step-up transformer to get the output signal to line level. Then they would have to find more space on the back panel to put in another output and, as you said, the sound is affected by the power amp.

The post-power amp line out is essentially the same thing as patching a DI box between your amp and your speaker. Since they are already doing that internally to get the XLR/USB out, all they would need to do is give us the ability to switch the preset speaker sim EQ curve on or off so that we can use our own IRs.

The great thing about amps is that their preamp and power sections are designed to work together, so it is nice to be able to capture the whole amp when recording or playing direct through something like a Torpedo Live. Using a preamp out might also sound good, but it will sound different.

My current setup for playing at home (and for recording, although I don't do much of it) is a tube head into a loadbox, with a DI off the other speaker output going into an EPSi, feeding some rack processors, into a mixer into monitors. If I were to get the Peavey and wanted to use my setup with it, a speaker sim that I can switch off would eliminate two things from my signal chain (the load and the DI), which would have been quite nice.

Similarly, for someone using Torpedo products, being able to switch off the cab sim would mean that they would only need a Torpedo CAB as opposed to the Live to get the same result (assuming the load works ok).

No big deal, but it sounds like a pretty simple feature that would make life considerably easier for a lot of people using IRs.