Political Compass Thread

[mastapimp]

No surprises here...kind of what i was expecting.

 

[Drew]

Took this just to kill a few minutes on lunch, and no real surprises here. I'm basically a hair to the right of Randy, which is kind of funny considering how often we're debating each other around here.


EDIT and here's the other one:


Surprising in that spot checking a few of these, I get a lot a flack for being the token establishment Democrat, but I'm actually more progressive than a bunch of you. I've long held that the difference between the establishment and progressive lanes isn't objectives, it's pragmatism about what we can actually achieve, so maybe that isn't very surprising. My views are pretty progressive, but I'd rather take small concrete steps to make lives better, than try and fail to do something revolutionary.

 

[tedtan]

^ That's a good point, as progressive ideals are great, but not necessarily practical to implement in one fell swoop, so getting to the goal line in several smaller steps beats not getting there at all. That's something that a lot of people don't understand until they get a bit older and have a little more experience with the real world.

 

[Randy]

My views are pretty progressive, but I'd rather take small concrete steps to make lives better, than try and fail to do something revolutionary.

^ That's a good point, as progressive ideals are great, but not necessarily practical to implement in one fell swoop, so getting to the goal line in several smaller steps beats not getting there at all. That's something that a lot of people don't understand until they get a bit older and have a little more experience with the real world.

Yeah but that's kind of an idealized characterization of it. We're talking about income inequality and class separation in the other big thread and in the Bezos thread. We had 8-years of a Democratic president and an economic recovery culminating in all time highs of the stock market. What specifically did the Obama presidency do about income inequality that had a concrete effect on the average person's life being better than it was BEFORE the recession? Pragmatism would be great but sometimes it's a lazy explanation for being dragged by the tide and not actually doing anything.

What's hilarious to me is that 'progressivism' used to BE the concept of pragmatism. Progess is the idea of 'one foot in front of the other', the only caveat is that it means movement should always be forward, never backward but always constant. For whatever reason that concept seems to get stuck in some people's craw.

 

[tedtan]

Yeah but that's kind of an idealized characterization of it. We're talking about income inequality and class separation in the other big thread and in the Bezos thread. We had 8-years of a Democratic president and an economic recovery culminating in all time highs of the stock market. What specifically did the Obama presidency do about income inequality that had a concrete effect on the average person's life being better than it was BEFORE the recession? Pragmatism would be great but sometimes it's a lazy explanation for being dragged by the tide and not actually doing anything.

When I say practicality, I mean actually getting something done, not just making excuses. And while you're right about Obama, I think a lot of that was a result of his being stymied by a republican congress trying to cock block him at every turn, which, frankly, was probably because he's black (the GOP may not have liked Clinton, but they worked with him whereas they outright refused to work with Obama).

What's hilarious to me is that 'progressivism' used to BE the concept of pragmatism. Progess is the idea of 'one foot in front of the other', the only caveat is that it means movement should always be forward, never backward but always constant. For whatever reason that concept seems to get stuck in some people's craw.

I agree with the concept of continuous improvement. I'm just saying that when it is not possible to make large strides, small strides are still preferable to making no strides at all.

 

[Randy]

My biggest complaint about party-line 'establishment wing' Democrats is refusal to criticize their guy since the other guy is worse, and (especially in Drew's case) refusing to put responsibility for any change in the lap of industry regardless of how much wealth they consolidate. It's always, like, "Yeah it sucks doesn't it? Huh" and then things stay the same, so then you can't shop change without sounding like fuckin' Carl Marx because industry doesn't need to pickup the slack for lagging incomes, so then the government has to. What's pragmatic about that?

 

[Randy]

You honestly can't make an appeal for income equality and strengthening the middle class without sound like a Communist because the disparity is so great that you're either advocating restrictions on wealth or you're telling the government to pay people for existing. I don't know what a pragmatic solution is that looks like progress that even your own party will agree on, or even compromise on, muchless trying at all to appeal to the Trumpublican Party.

 

[Randy]

stymied by a republican congress trying to cock block him at every turn, which, frankly, was probably because he's black

Maybe but Obama won, even with a funny black/Muslim name, along with both houses of Congress, then two years later the US voted in the fundamentalist polar-opposite of Obama to the Senate in a near historic number of seats, then they voted Obama in a second time. So I dunno how to read that. The US is racist but they voted him in twice but they also voted in the people to undo him in the middle?

If we couldn't move the needle in 8-years I'd like to know what the scale for lurching progressivism is. Maybe I can find an affordable house in 40 years? Likewise, if all Presidents are going to get a pass because they only control 1/2 to 3/4 of the branches of government, then nobody's ever responsible for anything and we should just give up trying to make change at that level.

 

[tedtan]

The max federal tax rate on the highest income earners now is under 40%. During the economic boom during the 50's and 60's, the highest tax rate was between 70% and 92%, and was as high as 94% during WW II. We have a lot of room to address the income inequality without going full communist.

 

[Edika]

No surprises there lol!

 

[Randy]

The max federal tax rate on the highest income earners now is under 40%. During the economic boom during the 50's and 60's, the highest tax rate was between 70% and 92%, and was as high as 94% during WW II. We have a lot of room to address the income inequality without going full communist.

Ask Jeff Flake or Richard Spencer if they feel that way. Or even Andrew Cuomo for that matter.

 

[tedtan]

I’m sure plenty of people will try to spin it as communism, but we went through McCarthyism and his commie roundup during the early to mid 50’s and had high higher tax rates then, so if it wasn’t communism then, it’s not communism today, either.

What we need to do is get rid of the BS idea of trickle down economics the right has been pushing since Regan/the 80’s.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Took this just to kill a few minutes on lunch, and no real surprises here. I'm basically a hair to the right of Randy, which is kind of funny considering how often we're debating each other around here.
View attachment 84283

EDIT and here's the other one:
View attachment 84284

Surprising in that spot checking a few of these, I get a lot a flack for being the token establishment Democrat, but I'm actually more progressive than a bunch of you. I've long held that the difference between the establishment and progressive lanes isn't objectives, it's pragmatism about what we can actually achieve, so maybe that isn't very surprising. My views are pretty progressive, but I'd rather take small concrete steps to make lives better, than try and fail to do something revolutionary.

^ That's a good point, as progressive ideals are great, but not necessarily practical to implement in one fell swoop, so getting to the goal line in several smaller steps beats not getting there at all. That's something that a lot of people don't understand until they get a bit older and have a little more experience with the real world.

@Randy pretty much hit the nail on the head.

These posts are how the Dems lost the Midwest and a not insignificant amount of the blue collar/working people vote. Probably for good.

It's easy to fall back on the old "well, they can only do so much" when you're not behind the 8-ball.

The fact that the big changes can't even be talked about without being talked down to is the problem.

 

[tedtan]

The fact that the big changes can't even be talked about without being talked down to is the problem.

I'm all for big changes, I just realize that they're not always possible. And when they are not possible, I'd rather make some progress than no progress (note that I am not saying that we've been successful in making progress).

 

[Randy]

I'd rather make some progress than no progress (note that I am not saying that we've been successful in making progress).

Bolded for relevance. If this COVID relief battle is any indication of Democratic strategy in negotiations, it's no wonder they've made no progress and you have to question if it was ever their intention at all. That's why I harp on Nancy and the tax credit instead of direct payout issue, and now the not taking a $600/wk bridge or $400/wk fully covered federal extension. They walked away from the table and now they're maybe getting $300/wk that could take up to 20 weeks to kick in for some places. And they walked away to try and lever for state/local funding which they didn't get anyway, so it remains zero.

I'm not sure the leadership of this party can process or even wants "some progress" TBH.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I'm all for big changes, I just realize that they're not always possible. And when they are not possible, I'd rather make some progress than no progress (note that I am not saying that we've been successful in making progress).

It's not about making every policy a moonshot, it's about driving to goals and moving the needle closer to said goals.

It's that simple, but we can't even get there without being called stupid children, and that's why this party stands a pretty good shot of blowing it again.

That's the go-to response. The yin to the GOP's "you're not patriotic enough" yang.

 

[tedtan]

It's not about making every policy a moonshot, it's about driving to goals and moving the needle closer to said goals.

That was the point that I was trying to make, perhaps not clearly enough. To make a football analogy, if after you snap the ball, you have a receiver wide open down field, go for it. But if he's covered too closely, you have to check your other receiver; if he's also covered, then you go to your check down or scramble for three or four yards and try again next down.

Essentially, take as much as you can at each step of the way.

I'm not sure the leadership of this party can process or even wants "some progress" TBH.

I agree.

I've said it before, but I'm, not a fan of the two party political system we have here. Eight plus parties that have to come together to form add hoc coalitions over actual issues would work much better IMO. And I might go further to even preferring a parliamentary system where the president (prime minister) is actually accountable to the parliament rather than allowing for this rogue behavior from Trump and his camp.

But there is no incentive for the parties to change that, so I'm, not sure its even worth mentioning.

 

[Captain Butterscotch]

“Before taking the test: Please note that this isn’t a survey, and these aren’t questions. They’re propositions. To question the logic of individual ones that irritate you is to miss the point. Some propositions are extreme, and some are moderate. That’s how we can show you whether you lean towards extremism or moderation on the Compass. Your responses should not be overthought. Some of them are intentionally vague. Their purpose is to trigger reactions in the mind, measuring feelings and prejudices rather than detailed opinions on policy.“

 

[SpaceDock]

I had some Republicans take this test and they were both real sore that their results came out right wing authoritarian when they like to call themselves libertarian. You can’t be libertarian if you are telling people they can’t protest or get an abortion.

 

[Hollowway]