OmegaSlayer
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Thanks
Now think if Yamaha brings them back into production
This one, quality wise, is equal to my Japanese Ibby (JEM77, FGM1, RG2228)
Post Random Pics of Your 6s.
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Now think if Yamaha brings them back into production
This one, quality wise, is equal to my Japanese Ibby (JEM77, FGM1, RG2228)
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Marked Man
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I have no reservations about Edwards. I have two Edwards LPs and would say they are above LTD1000 but maybe just below ESP Std / E-II (not by much if any...although they don't have the extra jumbo frets that I love on Eclipses).
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spudmunkey
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A friend of mine didn't understand the importance of taking even just the slightest amount of effort to get good lighting to take pictures of his guitar he's trying to sell, so I threw these two rows of guitars together, and showed them to him separately. I asked him which one he'd more likely want to buy. It didn't even click to him until I combined them into this one side-by-side that he realized they were the same guitars.
Seabeast2000
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tbh, I never knew the rules of good lighting and still don't. I don't even know really anything about camera stuff. Mostly just "avoid glare and reflections" or something like that.
What are the primary differences of light/camera between the two sets here?
odibrom
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In the first photo, the guitars all look dark and almost black, not showing the true colors they
Color is light, without light, there is no color whatsoever. If one wants to show some object's color, one should seek natural light, daylight (sunny day preferably) at a natural shade. Direct light doesn't go well with color showing for it will create lots of glare and parasitic reflections, artificial light doesn't go well with showcasing the color of something because it is never a white/natural light.
By natural shade I mean in the shade of something that doesn't reflect colored light, so preferably around something considered to be white or light grey. Color doesn't belong to objects, it is reflected by them, so if you have something white near something red, the white will be red tinted. The thing is that our brain does the white balance thing automatically and most of us can't turn it off, but and although many cameras (cell phones included) already have that auto - white balance, it only works so far.
Unfortunately, most humans aren't educated in the understanding what they are seeing, the whys and hows and everything else. It's like a given truth that no one questions... but when things don't work as desired no one knows how or why...
manu80
Well-Known Member
Well…like Britney once said « i did it again »
The peavey hp2 was a steal, Nos from 2018 , not more expensive than a mij evh. When i see the prices of the old peavey wolfgang… all good here
I don’t recall the wolfgang neck to be so beefy !
And a Robin medley usa,b&b l500xl pup ,with a paint refin, looks like blood pretty cool axe, very light
The peavey hp2 was a steal, Nos from 2018 , not more expensive than a mij evh. When i see the prices of the old peavey wolfgang… all good here
I don’t recall the wolfgang neck to be so beefy !
And a Robin medley usa,b&b l500xl pup ,with a paint refin, looks like blood
pretty cool axe, very light
Marked Man
Well-Known Member
My Four Horsemen of Toan, all Pale Riders, although once they were only Three....
L-R bottom pic:
'92 Jackson Soloist Pro MIJ - Duncan Distortion / PATB Stack (2), Titanium Fat Block + Titanium Claw, EMG EXG + SPC, New Dunlop 6100 Nickel Frets
Edwards LPC 130 MIJ "Rhoads Model According to Me" - JB/'59
'91 Charvel 650 Custom MIJ - EMG 85 / SLV / SLV + EMG SPC, New Dunlop 6100 SS Frets
Jackson Custom USA - EMG 81 / 60 + EMG EXG + SPC, EVH D Tuna
L-R bottom pic:
'92 Jackson Soloist Pro MIJ - Duncan Distortion / PATB Stack (2), Titanium Fat Block + Titanium Claw, EMG EXG + SPC, New Dunlop 6100 Nickel Frets
Edwards LPC 130 MIJ "Rhoads Model According to Me" - JB/'59
'91 Charvel 650 Custom MIJ - EMG 85 / SLV / SLV + EMG SPC, New Dunlop 6100 SS Frets
Jackson Custom USA - EMG 81 / 60 + EMG EXG + SPC, EVH D Tuna
spudmunkey
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I don't know much about the technical aspects, but you're bang on with the reflections. If the light on the object is brighter than what it would try to reflect, it's more likely that the "reflection" will be black, allowing the blacks/dark colors to shine and be "punchy"
The top photo was just depending on the indirect light coming in from a window, sort of from "behind" the guitars because of the way they are angled, putting the fronts all in shadow, and then the wall they are pointing to is mostly white, so the reflection is just mostly white glare. It was also a bit dim, so the camera had to automatically bump up the exposure, making for more graininess.
The bottom row, from left to right:
1. This was in the evening, but I brought a bright lamp into the room, so I could have light coming from a direction that hit the fronts more, but not be reflected. Taken with a Samsung Note 9.
2. This is on the floor, in an area where I have two small skylights visible, but I could mostly block the glare from them. Though with the carved top, I had to stand to block the one behind me. Also taken with a Note 9.
..........
3. This one was studio lighting, taken with some sort of Nikkon DSLR. This snapshot was taken with a Samsung Note 5
..........
4. This one was just taken outside in the sun with an Ricoh point-and-shoot digital camera back in '08, and I tried to point it in a way that eliminate the most glare/reflection, but if I had something black to put down in the area that was being reflected, it would have been much better. Sometimes holding up a black piece of poster board with one hand is enough. With the gloss black back of the body, it's basically like trying to photograph a mirror. Since what is being reflected is just as bright as the light on the guitar, both are easily visible.
..........
LunatiqueRob
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Random it is. Here we go:
soliloquy
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portrait photographer here, but as others mentioned/suggested, the same rules apply:
soft light = good light
diffused light = soft light
harsh lighting = dramatic shadows = chances are, its bad lighting that will enhance any blemishes.
case in point: not a cloud in the sky and its DIRECT light, you're squinting, if you photograph something, its racoon eyes and nasty shadows and colors are washed out. BUT if its a cloudy sky, the light is soft, colors are softer, shadows are softer, blemishes are mostly taken care of.
i dont really do product photography as much, but same ting applies. Take an image in your front/backyard when its super cloudy...OR take a picture INDOORS close to a giant window when there is no 'direct' sun peeking through the window.
declutter the background too.
it doesn't take much to make something go from 'average' looking to 'WOW!'
best of luck
Marked Man
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I've reached the same conclusions through practice. With the right lighting, even an apple can look impressive. It's everything.
There is a bathroom near the laboratory where I work that has worse lighting than a KGB mug shot. Sometimes makes me wonder, "Am I looking tired/hungover today?! Feeling zombified?
". 
Then I walk into the regular office bathroom and everything's alright. 
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LunatiqueRob
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Others have explained good photography practices from their perspective, and I'll share mine as well (professional photographer since 2004, shooting everything from products, food, fashion, portraits, corporate, street, travel, to real estate). I posted my photos a few posts above so you can see the results of what I'm about to describe, but I'll post examples in this post too.
The typical problems I see in most guitar player's photos of their gear are:
1. Bad lighting. The photos are either under-exposed or over-exposed, not showing how the gears actual look. Cameras are dumb, despite all the automatic magic they try to cram into them (and phone camera apps). They don't always know your intentions or what subjects you're pointing at (although AI will improve that in the years to come). It uses a simple but inflexible standard to judge exposure, which is to use a "middle gray" value as the standard, so if your photo's average value (value is a term used in visual art to describe the brightness of something) is brighter than that middle gray, it'll lower the exposure automatically, and it'll do the reverse if the average is darker than middle gray. This means, that if you have a black guitar against a bright valued background (such as bright sunlit white walls), and the white areas take up most of the composition (let's say 70% white wall and 30% black guitar), then your camera's metering is going to look at that and think the overall value is brighter than middle gray (you can think of it as 50% brightness, but it's a lot more nuanced than that), so it'll lower the exposure, which means your black guitar now looks more like a black silhouette with no details left. The opposite is true. If you have a dark background and a light-valued guitar (Iet's say white), then the camera will try to raise the exposure because it thinks the scene is too dark, and now your white guitar looks over-exposed and washed out and all details are lost.
Bad lighting also can be just inappropriate quality and direction of the light source, such as having the light source behind the guitars, directly above the guitars (when the guitars are vertical on a stand or hanging on the wall), and any other drastic angles in relation to the guitar, casting ugly harsh shadows from the knobs, switches, pickups, etc., onto the body. You want soft lighting for the most part (unless you're going for a very dramatic and moody look, which is usually only reserved for special moody shots used in marketing, and even those are rare because they obscure the products too much). Soft lighting is diffused, and it comes from a larger light source. Small light sources like the sun or a bare light bulb are called direct light and it's very harsh and casts sharp-edged shadows. This is why photographers use softboxes or panel lights that increase the size of the light source. If you simply point a desk lamp at the wall/ceiling, you will create a soft diffused light because the harsh light hits those large surfaces and then bounces back as if it's a large area of light instead of one single small point of light. This is also why overcast days have very soft light--the harsh sunlight is diffused through the sheet of clouds covering the entire sky.
2. Bad angles/lens distortion. Too many guitar photos are bad because the person used inappropriate lens focal length and camera angle, pointing at the guitar in ways that will distort its overall proportions, such as a massive headstock and tiny body. I've seen so many shots of people just standing and pointing down at their guitars on a stand, and the angle is terrible, like when adults take photos of children doing the same, resulting in unappealing photos of the children with humongous heads and tiny bodies. You need to get down to the same level as the child, and in this case, the guitar, so you can take photos of it from the front angle and not from above it. If you use a wide-angle lens (whether an actual camera or a phone camera with multiple lenses), then know that it'll cause distortion, and whatever is closer to the camera will appear much larger than what's further away from the camera, and the center of the frame will be enlarged while the edges will be shrunken. This is like the fisheye-lens effect where you see photos of dogs with giant snouts and tiny bodies--those were shot utilizing the wide-angle distortion for comedic effect.
3. Bad reflections. Glossy finishes are the hardest to deal with because they are like mirrors and will reflect everything in the environment, so you need to arrange the guitar or things in the environment just so, to get rid of distracting reflections. Usually, unless you have a photography studio especially equipped to deal with this issue, you WILL get reflections. Even I get reflections because I do so little product photography now that I don't have my studio set up for it anymore, whereas I used to have things set up for product shot clients. Now it's mostly portraits and real estate.
4. Bad composition. Composition is something that people get serious about when they become serious about visual art. How you arrange the subject within the frame relative to what else might be in the scene, is one of the most telling signs of how good a visual artist is. I can tell 10 different photographers to shoot the exact same object, and I might get back 10 totally different compositions that all feel very different from each other. The choice of camera angle, the focal length, what details are isolated, etc. Too many guitar photos have unwanted clutter in the composition--just typical household clutter and distractions that detract from the shots.
5. Potato cameras. This is becoming more rare since camera tech has advanced in lot in the last 10 years, and even cheap smartphones can take decent photos. However, because often the lighting is inadequate (too dark), the camera will automatically boost the ISO level (sensor's sensitivity to light), which although will achieve a brighter exposure in dimly lit scenes, it'll also increase the grainy noise you see in the photo. Then, the automated algorithm in your camera or phone camera app will try to remove all that noise, resulting in smeary photos with no details left. Guitar Center used gear photos are often guilty of this, and I'm just in disbelief at how bad many of their used gear photos are. The higher-end the camera is, the better it'll perform in low-light situations, resulting in less noise and better-retained detail, and this is because higher-end cameras have larger sensors, so they can capture more detail and the pixels aren't packed as tight together so they generate less heat (thus less noise).
5. Lack of polish via editing. All professional photography goes through editing, no exceptions. This is because professional work requires a level of polish that is guaranteed by doing editing, and even shots that already look amazing in-camera can be improved with some light editing like sharpening details, removing noise, punching up the saturation, etc. You would be shocked by how a really bad exposure can be salvaged with good editing, and how a great photo can be amazing with some editing.
Now, I'm going to show you the difference between just casually taking photos of my guitars, vs me being careful and treating it more like photography.
These are just me casually snapping some shots to keep records of what has recently arrived in my studio. Just phone camera (Samsung Galaxy Z Fold 4):
Notice how cluttered they are, with lots of crap in the background that distracts from the guitars. But for their intended purpose, they do their job just fine.
And look at how bad this shot is--it's just a dark guitar against a dark background with inadequate lighting. I wasn't trying at all (I disliked this guitar so much I didn't even bother taking better photos of it and sent it right back to the seller):
This other shot with a different background is also bad, due to the clutter and dark on dark obscuring the guitar's shape:
A different guitar that's a lot lighter in color will show up better against a dark background, but it's still cluttered:
Now, let's see what happens if I were to use the same phone camera and shoot the same guitar, but be more careful about lighting and composition:
Now let's see what happens if I use a high-end full-frame camera (Sony a7RII), shooting a similar-looking guitar also from Schecter, using the same lighting, compositions, and background:
As you can see, being more careful with just your choice of background, composition, and lighting will immediately improve the photos, even if using the same camera. And then, from there, if you want to go up to the next level, invest in a quality camera. But you don't have to buy a high-end camera, as even an entry-level camera with a decent-sized sensor (Micro Four-Thirds or APS-C sized) can achieve very good results. I'll elaborate on that in another post since the forum only allows 10 image attachments per post.
LunatiqueRob
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I mentioned in my previous post that you don't need a very expensive high-end camera to get great results. Even phone cameras can get excellent results if you know how to use it effectively. But, phone cameras will have limited level of control compared to a dedicated camera, and they have tiny sensors (about the size of a pinky finger nail, whereas a full-frame sensor is the size of a large stamp) that cannot achieve adequate fidelity for higher standards. I'll show you how a Micro Four-Thirds senor camera (Olympus E-M1 Mark II), with only about half the size of a full-frame sensor, compared to a full-frame camera (Sony a7IV).
BTW, these shots were all taken with just the soft/diffused ambient light coming through the windows of the living room, and the background is a yoga mat.
These shots were taken with the Micro Four-Thirds sensor camera:
You can see that the noise level is a bit higher, and once removed, the details are a bit less sharp at the same resolution. I don't use this camera for professional work--it's my casual camera for when traveling or just snapping shots around the house of friends and family. But it is definitely a very capable camera and far better than any phone camera.
Now, compared to shots from my Sony a7IV with a full-frame sensor, you can see these have higher fidelity and lower noise. This is because the sensor is about twice the size of the Micro Four-Thirds:
You'll notice that on the glossy-finish guitars, there are reflections like windows, ceiling fan, framed pictures on the walls, shelves, etc., but I try my hardest to position the guitar and myself so those reflections end up in the least distracting areas on the guitar. Not perfect compared to if I still had my studio set up for large product photography, but much better than if I didn't even bother trying to minimize the reflections at all.
I also want to point out that having backgrounds of real environments isn't inherently bad--it depends on the look you're after. You can achieve nice shots if you use the environment effectively, like in these shots:
I hope all these tips will help y'all in getting better shots of your beloved guitars (and better listing photos when you sell them).
BTW, these shots were all taken with just the soft/diffused ambient light coming through the windows of the living room, and the background is a yoga mat.
These shots were taken with the Micro Four-Thirds sensor camera:
You can see that the noise level is a bit higher, and once removed, the details are a bit less sharp at the same resolution. I don't use this camera for professional work--it's my casual camera for when traveling or just snapping shots around the house of friends and family. But it is definitely a very capable camera and far better than any phone camera.
Now, compared to shots from my Sony a7IV with a full-frame sensor, you can see these have higher fidelity and lower noise. This is because the sensor is about twice the size of the Micro Four-Thirds:
You'll notice that on the glossy-finish guitars, there are reflections like windows, ceiling fan, framed pictures on the walls, shelves, etc., but I try my hardest to position the guitar and myself so those reflections end up in the least distracting areas on the guitar. Not perfect compared to if I still had my studio set up for large product photography, but much better than if I didn't even bother trying to minimize the reflections at all.
I also want to point out that having backgrounds of real environments isn't inherently bad--it depends on the look you're after. You can achieve nice shots if you use the environment effectively, like in these shots:
I hope all these tips will help y'all in getting better shots of your beloved guitars (and better listing photos when you sell them).
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Marked Man
Well-Known Member
Pro quality pics, man.
Backgrounds are important and can elevate the artistic quality of any shot. I've been into fast cars for many years and used to drive hundreds of miles at times in part to take pics in front of certain features at a certain time of day, especially the golden hour. Perfect moments, captured.
odibrom
.
@LunatiqueRob
Great work on explaining these things for uneducated folks on these subjects, great photos as well. There are, however 2 things I'd like to comment on the POTATO CAMERA PHOTOS, these problems I often see coming from generic cell phone photos, both not hardware/software limitations but user related.
- Cell phones are objects that have constant hand touch and hands are greasy and dirty and... they often touch the phone's lens, which will add a filter to the photo. The grease and dirt filter which will affect how the light enters the camera. In order to avoid this, ALWAYS clean your phone's lens before taking photos with a dry and cloth of some sort, do not aply force or there's a high risk of damaging the lens' surface with scratches, no one wants that, ever.
- Then, there's also the user's fault by not knowing how to take advantage of the camera's software control and frequently not using the max resolution option available... or often using the lowest resolution possible for storage sake. In order to maximize the photo quality, ALWAYS use the max resolution possible. Additionally, one should also navigate the camera's menu options to customize the user experience, like deciding on the color space/panorama, white balance options, and whatever else there is.
:::::::::::::
Having this said, personally, I take my photos the best I can and edit them only when out of the phone they aren't rocking as much as I'd like. Most of the time I'm downsizing and cropping them, with a little color balance and contrast twists but not much. It depends a lot on the photo's purpose and since when I'm doing my gear's photos I'm doing it just for fun, I'm not too demanding on the result and don't invest much time on each photo..
Great work on explaining these things for uneducated folks on these subjects, great photos as well. There are, however 2 things I'd like to comment on the POTATO CAMERA PHOTOS, these problems I often see coming from generic cell phone photos, both not hardware/software limitations but user related.
- Cell phones are objects that have constant hand touch and hands are greasy and dirty and... they often touch the phone's lens, which will add a filter to the photo. The grease and dirt filter which will affect how the light enters the camera. In order to avoid this, ALWAYS clean your phone's lens before taking photos with a dry and cloth of some sort, do not aply force or there's a high risk of damaging the lens' surface with scratches, no one wants that, ever.
- Then, there's also the user's fault by not knowing how to take advantage of the camera's software control and frequently not using the max resolution option available... or often using the lowest resolution possible for storage sake. In order to maximize the photo quality, ALWAYS use the max resolution possible. Additionally, one should also navigate the camera's menu options to customize the user experience, like deciding on the color space/panorama, white balance options, and whatever else there is.
:::::::::::::
Having this said, personally, I take my photos the best I can and edit them only when out of the phone they aren't rocking as much as I'd like. Most of the time I'm downsizing and cropping them, with a little color balance and contrast twists but not much. It depends a lot on the photo's purpose and since when I'm doing my gear's photos I'm doing it just for fun, I'm not too demanding on the result and don't invest much time on each photo..
LunatiqueRob
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Thanks!Pro quality pics, man.
Backgrounds are important and can elevate the artistic quality of any shot. I've been into fast cars for many years and used to drive hundreds of miles at times in part to take pics in front of certain features at a certain time of day, especially the golden hour. Perfect moments, captured.
Wildlife and landscape photographers are known to sleep out in the wild in ungodly hours and shitty weather just to be able to capture some elusive wild animal, or a landscape lit at a specific angle by the sun in those 30 seconds. I have gotten injured trying to capture difficult shots before (climbing onto things I shouldn't have for a better angle).
Yes! My wife is guilty of that. Her phone and iPad are always covered in fingerprint and grease and god knows what else. If I have to touch her devices I always use hand sanitizer afterward. She once asked me why her photos looked crappy because ones from my phone looked great, and I took her phone, looked the photo she took, then I wiped the lenses with my shirt, and handed it back to her. She couldn't believe the difference it made.
Another thing people don't know is how they have to hold the camera very still to not cause motion blur and smear the details. Yes, we have sensor stabilization/anti-shake tech now but they don't perform miracles, so you still have to be relatively still to not overwhelm their capability.
Pretty much all phone camera apps today have automated image optimization built-in, so the editing is already done for you. You'd actually have to go into the settings to turn it off or else you don't even know all your photos have already been edited by the algorithm.
BTW, you guys can check out my photography work here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/32242855@N00/sets/72057594095034856
odibrom
.
I can relate that experience with so many familiars and friends. I also always clean my phone's lens with my t-shirt before any photo, but when I see my students (around 16y/o) taking photos with their phones, it creeps me out about how much careless they are, even with compositions... the Cell Phone generation is completely careless about anything... amazing...Thanks!
Wildlife and landscape photographers are known to sleep out in the wild in ungodly hours and shitty weather just to be able to capture some elusive wild animal, or a landscape lit at a specific angle by the sun in those 30 seconds. I have gotten injured trying to capture difficult shots before (climbing onto things I shouldn't have for a better angle).
Yes! My wife is guilty of that. Her phone and iPad are always covered in fingerprint and grease and god knows what else. If I have to touch her devices I always use hand sanitizer afterward. She once asked me why her photos looked crappy because ones from my phone looked great, and I took her phone, looked the photo she took, then I wiped the lenses with my shirt, and handed it back to her. She couldn't believe the difference it made.
Another thing people don't know is how they have to hold the camera very still to not cause motion blur and smear the details. Yes, we have sensor stabilization/anti-shake tech now but they don't perform miracles, so you still have to be relatively still to not overwhelm their capability.
Pretty much all phone camera apps today have automated image optimization built-in, so the editing is already done for you. You'd actually have to go into the settings to turn it off or else you don't even know all your photos have already been edited by the algorithm.
BTW, you guys can check out my photography work here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/32242855@N00/sets/72057594095034856
The shaking part is specially important in less optimal light situations like dark places. One thing motion object trails other is the camera shaking, two completely different things. With cell phones, it's not so hard to avoid shaking since these are super light compared to a SLR camera, specially with heavy lens and camera bodies. When I'm with my DSLR camera, I'll take photos in RAW mode always, but since I haven't been needing its use in the last 5 or so years, the cell phone has been more than enough... more so because my camera is about 20 years old!... But still works great.
