Question for the Kiesel Vader Owners

[Webmaestro]

I'm gassing pretty bad for a Vader 7 (and, they're on sale right now!), but am worried about something related to this particular body design:

My Vader would have a floating trem.

However, I sit in the Classical position 100% of the time when I play, with the guitar perched on my elevated left thigh.

Best I can tell... that means my right inner thigh would hit the back of the trem due to the cutout back there. In fact, it seems like the trem would literally be resting on my right leg, which would constantly foul the tuning.

Can any Vader owners confirm this, or am I'm worried about nothing?

 

[ShredmasterD]

I have a non term Vader. The tuners do butt up against the inner thigh when seated classical style, which I use when seated, looking at photos of the trem equipped model, this would also be the case . This is my “hard tail “ Vader . Not only would the floating trem be all but unusable , there would also be tuning stability issues. Every time you shifted body position the trem would be deflected sharp or flat most likely

 

[Webmaestro]

I have a non term Vader. The tuners do butt up against the inner thigh when seated classical style, which I use when seated, looking at photos of the trem equipped model, this would also be the case . This is my “hard tail “ Vader . Not only would the floating trem be all but unusable , there would also be tuning stability issues. Every time you shifted body position the trem would be deflected sharp or flat most likely

Dammit, that's what I was afraid of. I'd have constant issues with moving the trem with my leg... as well as actually using the trem (again, because it's resting on my damn leg).

This makes me sad

 

[ShredmasterD]

Dammit, that's what I was afraid of. I'd have constant issues with moving the trem with my leg... as well as actually using the trem (again, because it's resting on my damn leg).

This makes me sad

It’s a cool guitar, but I would recommend that if you get do one. pass on the fanned fret option. I have found no benefit to it and it actually creates difficulties playing. At least for what I play anyway. Good luck

 

[nile33499]

I have two Vaders, and sold a third a few years ago. One 7, and one 8. I have another Vader 6 on the way now. All of them have the trem, and I also play in the classical position all of the time.

The trem will sit against your thigh, but my experience is that the Kiesel trems aren't as touchy as say a Floyd. They are really stable (one of my favorite things about them) and harder to move, and *again only my experience* you really have to be pushing it hard against your leg to get it to move during normal practice sessions- it's not something that's just going to happen from the weight of it touching your leg. It's almost never an issue for me.

They are my favorite all time guitars- and I specifically switched to Vaders because they are so comfortable to play; especially in classical. I have back issues, and I love not having to wear a strap to practice. Phenomenal guitars, I would highly recommend you at least check one out.

Good luck! \m/

 

[ShredmasterD]

I have two Vaders, and sold a third a few years ago. One 7, and one 8. I have another Vader 6 on the way now. All of them have the trem, and I also play in the classical position all of the time.

The trem will sit against your thigh, but my experience is that the Kiesel trems aren't as touchy as say a Floyd. They are really stable (one of my favorite things about them) and harder to move, and *again only my experience* you really have to be pushing it hard against your leg to get it to move during normal practice sessions- it's not something that's just going to happen from the weight of it touching your leg. It's almost never an issue for me.

They are my favorite all time guitars- and I specifically switched to Vaders because they are so comfortable to play; especially in classical. I have back issues, and I love not having to wear a strap to practice. Phenomenal guitars, I would highly recommend you at least check one out.

Good luck! \m/

question: can you use the trem while in seated classical position? I get that you're saying its stable enough to play while seated, but using it while seated doesn't look possible. I am curious. please dont take my question as adversarial. I too like the Vader quite a bit. I am considering a 6 string, along with a couple other guitars as my next purchase. they are great to travel travel with too.

 

[DoctorStoner]

Maybe find a way to add a 'strap' of aluminum or plastic between the two strap buttons to bridge the area and guard the trem.

 

[Darkscience]

Having the tremolo stick out beyond the edge of the guitar, especially the bottom side seems like a bad design period no matter how you sit and play. If you accidentally bump something, you would damage the tremolo and if while playing would sound terrible.

 

[ElRay]

… However, I sit in the Classical position 100% of the time when I play …

 

[Isaapostasied]

As long as I have a strap on mine it sits perfectly in classical position, just without resting on the legs. Whether that would work for you or not I don't know, but I love my Vader and my Lightspeed, easily the most comfortable guitars I've ever played (and ive played a lot) whether sitting or standing.

 

[guillermo701]

I own an 8 string Vader and no issues with this. To play on classical position you can rest the Vader on its right butt cheek shape end where the straplock is located or just like you mentioned. I have never had an issue like I said, and I don’t think you’ll have either. These kiesel bridges are super sturdy.

 

[spudmunkey]

I guess it would imagine, too, if you're able to play with your left leg elevated or not, and how much, that would dictate where your right leg would land...it might not even line up with the bridge area.

Before you order a custom one, would it make sense to try a used one or an in-stock, even if it means considering an extra, say, 10% to the overall final build cost to include the shipping on the one you're returning/reselling.

 

[nile33499]

question: can you use the trem while in seated classical position? I get that you're saying its stable enough to play while seated, but using it while seated doesn't look possible. I am curious. please dont take my question as adversarial. I too like the Vader quite a bit. I am considering a 6 string, along with a couple other guitars as my next purchase. they are great to travel travel with too.

Didn't take it that way at all.

I've been playing them for years, and I do use the trems quite a bit during normal playing, and it's a non issue *again- for me*. I've never even really thought about it. It functions fine for dives and pulls on my lap, in classical.

You'd have to be actively pressing your thigh hard up against it on purpose to impede any of the usability or functionality IMO.

The only issue I've ever had, is that if I'm wearing jeans that have any sort of opening or tear, the bridge will tend to catch on that if you're not paying attention when you lift the guitar up.

Sick guitars.

 

[Webmaestro]

I have two Vaders, and sold a third a few years ago. One 7, and one 8. I have another Vader 6 on the way now. All of them have the trem, and I also play in the classical position all of the time.

The trem will sit against your thigh, but my experience is that the Kiesel trems aren't as touchy as say a Floyd. They are really stable (one of my favorite things about them) and harder to move, and *again only my experience* you really have to be pushing it hard against your leg to get it to move during normal practice sessions- it's not something that's just going to happen from the weight of it touching your leg. It's almost never an issue for me.

They are my favorite all time guitars- and I specifically switched to Vaders because they are so comfortable to play; especially in classical. I have back issues, and I love not having to wear a strap to practice. Phenomenal guitars, I would highly recommend you at least check one out.

Good luck! \m/

Thanks for all that info. Love your design too--very similar to what I have in my head (I love an understated, stealthy looking aesthetic). Are your fretboards Richlite?

I would love to check one out before pulling the trigger on one, but that's not realistic... unless I just happen to get incredibly lucky one day.

Who knows, maybe I'll eventually just go for it.

 

[ChaoticKinesis]

I don't have a Vader but I have a Zeus 8-string that I play exclusively in classical position. I find that the guitar balances very well on my *right* leg (left-handed), such that the contact between my left leg and the body is very light. I could literally balance it on my one leg, with no hands, at approximately a 45 degree angle. I imagine the Vader should be fairly similar.

 

[ixlramp]

Best I can tell... that means my right inner thigh would hit the back of the trem due to the cutout back there. In fact, it seems like the trem would literally be resting on my right leg, which would constantly foul the tuning.

Even light contact between thigh and trem will certainly cause pitch errors. This is inevitable from the mechanics of a floating trem.

When a floating trem is deflected away from its central position, a 'restoring force' is created that tries to return the trem to its central position.
The restoring force is zero at the central position and very small for a very small deflection.

Therefore even a small force exerted by the thigh on the trem is enough to deflect the trem slightly, which is enough to cause a significant pitch error.
Therefore also, even a small amount of friction between thigh and trem will at some point exceed the restoring force and prevent the trem from completely returning to its central position, again causing a pitch error.