Roger Waters rerecording of Dark Side of the Moon October 6 - Drops single "Money"

[Spaced Out Ace]

Yeah, the whole “Roger is wearing a Nazi uniform onstage” got an automatic eye roll from me. Roger’s a dick but that was as misdirected as it gets. Just watch The Wall and it’ll all make sense, if one still comes out of that thinking “Oh, Roger’s definitely a nazi”, they did nazi The Wall.

Good one!

 

[TheBlackBard]

I keep seeing The Wall get brought up, but nothing about how it's in terrible taste to dress up like a Nazi and use big inflatable pigs with the Star of David and money signs on them in the country AND the city where these atrocities took place. Even if he isn't a Nazi, it's kind of alarming to see people who are perfectly willing to look the other way in terms of just how fucking marvelously tone deaf it is for him to do the shit that he's doing. Provided plenty of reading material.

 

[KailM]

Money is the worst song on DSOTM, so I’m glad he chose THAT one to butcher.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

So why couldn't he just say "fuck Nazi's" or something? Apparently, authorities in more civilized places than Georgia believe otherwise and I'd trust them given... you know... it's their homeland, it's their past, it's unfortunately a black mark among German history, and they felt action should be taken.

But why let me speak for Jewish people. Here it is from them:

Roger Waters Spreads Hate | Jewish Federation of Greater Nashville

www.jewishnashville.org

Though he denies it, Roger Waters (of Pink Floyd) makes no effort to hide his anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. He says he's not anti-Israel or biased against Jews, yet the imagery and props he often uses tell a different story - like a huge, inflatable pig he hangs off the rafters with stars of David and dollar signs. He also frequently and publicly harasses other artists who go to Israel to perform. Waters plays at Bridgestone Arena on August 13 and we want as many people to know what kind of bigot is coming to our diverse, wonderful city.

Yeah, the Nazi's are the butt of the joke there... /sarcasm

I'm not going to lay out my "Jew bonifides" because that's stupid and doesn't frame the discussion at all.

But neither Isreal, nor Isreal affiliated institutions, "speak for the Jews" the world over.

I think Waters is a dick, a blowhard, a hypocrite, and most damning: a terrible musician these days, but I don't think he's entirely wrong on his stance concerning modern day Isreal.

He's been dunking on Nazis for decades, and if you've seen his performances from the 80's onwards you'd probably have better context then "Israel, speaking for all Jews, says he's bad."

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

I'm not going to lay out my "Jew bonifides" because that's stupid and doesn't frame the discussion at all.

But neither Isreal, nor Isreal affiliated institutions, "speak for the Jews" the world over.

I think Waters is a dick, a blowhard, a hypocrite, and most damning: a terrible musician these days, but I don't think he's entirely wrong on his stance concerning modern day Isreal.

He's been dunking on Nazis for decades, and if you've seen his performances from the 80's onwards you'd probably have better context then "Israel, speaking for all Jews, says he's bad."

.

 

[Wiltonauer]

Things like this always make me ponder the similarities and differences between promoting/celebrating a thing, mocking it, and presenting it without commentary for individual reflection. How do you gauge the true intent of someone who does stuff like that?

Sometimes I think that going out of your way to mock something like anti-Semitism also requires repeating its messages, even if it’s in some “context” where it’s supposed to be “okay”, just to show that it’s wrong. Is it possible that the power of suggestion in simply putting those ideas into more minds, can also be harmful? Especially when it’s done so theatrically, it tends to look a little too celebratory for my tastes.

 

[Metalman X]

This was one of the first albums that got me into music in general as a young lil' shit, so have always been a fan of Pink Floyd. Even like some of Rogers earliest solo stuff too.... but as I've gotten older I've realized he's a bit of a tool as a person. And I say this not just as a Floyd fan, but also as someone who lost his father at a very young age, therefore knowing full well how that can fuck up a person too.... just sad to see. But it's not an excuse for being an asshole for the rest of your life, trust me. I stopped taking that shit out on others by my late teens (as for not being an asshole to myself.... thats a work in progress)

In regards to the nazi costume, yeah, I don't think it's any secret that it's meant as theater, and he's making a statement against fascists....

HOWEVER.... it's also an unfortunate fact that just cuz one hates nazis, doesn't necessarily mean they're not also an antisemite. Roger's been pretty public with his antisemitism for a long ass time, but spouting those views, while being someone who routinely wears nazi regalia, even as a spoof.... not a good look no matter how you slice it. .....ESPECIALLY in Germany, lol. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but pretty sure thats illegal in Germany, regardless of context.

The original DSOTM will always be a legendary album. And if you feel the need to check it out in a different flavor, I highly recommend just packing a bowl, putting on a good set of cans, and taking a side trip to The Dub Side Of The Moon, which I can almost guarantee will be a much better time for most of us.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Things like this always make me ponder the similarities and differences between promoting/celebrating a thing, mocking it, and presenting it without commentary for individual reflection. How do you gauge the true intent of someone who does stuff like that?

Sometimes I think that going out of your way to mock something like anti-Semitism also requires repeating its messages, even if it’s in some “context” where it’s supposed to be “okay”, just to show that it’s wrong. Is it possible that the power of suggestion in simply putting those ideas into more minds, can also be harmful?

I think context is important. So what do you do when you have no context? Is it ever possible to have all the context? What about bad actors?

I don't think it's ever completely clear cut, and I think it's up to individual interpretation, because that's just how the real world works, whether we like it or not.

Are people getting radicalized and indoctrinated into Nazism at any of Roger's Pink Floyd cover band shows? Probably not. Could someone? Sure, folks can be powerfully stupid.

 

[TheBlackBard]

I think context is important. So what do you do when you have no context? Is it ever possible to have all the context? What about bad actors?

I don't think it's ever completely clear cut, and I think it's up to individual interpretation, because that's just how the real world works, whether we like it or not.

Are people getting radicalized and indoctrinated into Nazism at any of Roger's Pink Floyd cover band shows? Probably not. Could someone? Sure, folks can be powerfully stupid.

For me personally, it's not just the outfit, it's also the inflatable pigs with dollar signs and the Star of David on them. Maybe he's not a Nazi, but given the suit he wore WHERE he wore it and his onstage decorations, if this is somehow a joke where the Nazi's are the butt of it, I guess I'm just not smart enough to get it. The Wall keeps getting brought up but in my mind, even if that's somehow supposed to be a sign that he's against Nazi's, it can't be denied that there are WAY better ways to go about it because what he's doing now is tone deaf at least and performative at best.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

For me personally, it's not just the outfit, it's also the inflatable pigs with dollar signs and the Star of David on them. Maybe he's not a Nazi, but given the suit he wore WHERE he wore it and his onstage decorations, if this is somehow a joke where the Nazi's are the butt of it, I guess I'm just not smart enough to get it. The Wall keeps getting brought up but in my mind, even if that's somehow supposed to be a sign that he's against Nazi's, it can't be denied that there are WAY better ways to go about it be cause what he's doing now is tone deaf at least and performative at best.

Artists can be provocative. That's part of the gig. Not everyone is Cliff Richards.* Everyone saying that he just needs to write a stern letter to Bibi is some disingenuous bullshit.

If it gets the conversation going, it worked. Again, I don't think there are a bunch of Neo-Nazis sitting around going "fuck yeah! One of us! One of us! One of us!" at a Roger Waters show in 2023. I mean maybe, Nazis aren't known for being very bright.

You're definitely smart enough to get it, you've just bought into the narrative that anything anti-Isreal is inherently antisemitic. It's an easy inference to make, as there's a healthy political machine pushing that angle. Waters has even made the distinction between Isreal, the country's leadership, and it's people. Again, I'm not ride or die BDS'er, but I also take issue with a lot of modern day policy of Israel's leadership.

I also don't care that he did it in Germany. I'm sure Germany is very embarrassed about a certain time in their history as they should be. I also have mixed feelings about their hard line censorship. I understand it, and I'm not vehemently against it, but I think it's also purposely used to shut down real satire and give me "out of sight, out of mind" vibes.

Again, I think Waters is mostly a childish dipshit, and I'm sure he's learning harder into this because someone is telling him not to.

*I don't know, he seems inoffensive, couldn't think of a better example. YOLO.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

I'm not much of a Pink Floyd fan and this whole thing isn't that difficult for me to unpack.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

Artists can be provocative. That's part of the gig. Not everyone is Cliff Richards.* Everyone saying that he just needs to write a stern letter to Bibi is some disingenuous bullshit.

If it gets the conversation going, it worked. Again, I don't think there are a bunch of Neo-Nazis sitting around going "fuck yeah! One of us! One of us! One of us!" at a Roger Waters show in 2023. I mean maybe, Nazis aren't known for being very bright.

You're definitely smart enough to get it, you've just bought into the narrative that anything anti-Isreal is inherently antisemitic. It's an easy inference to make, as there's a healthy political machine pushing that angle. Waters has even made the distinction between Isreal, the country's leadership, and it's people. Again, I'm not ride or die BDS'er, but I also take issue with a lot of modern day policy of Israel's leadership.

I also don't care that he did it in Germany. I'm sure Germany is very embarrassed about a certain time in their history as they should be. I also have mixed feelings about their hard line censorship. I understand it, and I'm not vehemently against it, but I think it's also purposely used to shut down real satire and give me "out of sight, out of mind" vibes.

Again, I think Waters is mostly a childish dipshit, and I'm sure he's learning harder into this because someone is telling him not to.

*I don't know, he seems inoffensive, couldn't think of a better example. YOLO.

I sure hope none of these do good phonies check out SOD.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

I also don't care that he did it in Germany. I'm sure Germany is very embarrassed about a certain time in their history as they should be. I also have mixed feelings about their hard line censorship. I understand it, and I'm not vehemently against it, but I think it's also purposely used to shut down real satire and give me "out of sight, out of mind" vibes

It gives me "those who ignore history are bound to repeat it" vibes. I find censorship repugnant; it insinuates I am not capable of flushing the toilet full of shit I don't care to read. Aside for doom scrolling, mainly for looking a the animals at the zoo (lol at the Bud Light bullshit; just wow), I tend not to have time for feigned outrage campaigns.

To elaborate -- I'm not sure why Bud Light was tone deaf enough to have Dylan advertise for them. I highly doubt transgender people (in general) will want to drink piss water just because Dylan is on the part that goes in the trash. As for the "Boycott Bud Light" group, why the fuck were you people buying that shit to begin with? Budweiser and Bud Light is awful.

 

[MetalDestroyer]

I just personally think that wearing anything nazi-like while performing in Germany, where nazi symbols are illegal, is dumb. Be provocative elsewhere, I’m sure there are plenty of other tour dates you can play dress up at

 

[Wiltonauer]

It gives me "those who ignore history are bound to repeat it" vibes. I find censorship repugnant; it insinuates I am not capable of flushing the toilet full of shit I don't care to read. Aside for doom scrolling, mainly for looking a the animals at the zoo (lol at the Bud Light bullshit; just wow), I tend not to have time for feigned outrage campaigns.

To elaborate -- I'm not sure why Bud Light was tone deaf enough to have Dylan advertise for them. I highly doubt transgender people (in general) will want to drink piss water just because Dylan is on the part that goes in the trash. As for the "Boycott Bud Light" group, why the fuck were you people buying that shit to begin with? Budweiser and Bud Light is awful.

So they found the one transgirl in America who likes drinking terrible mass-market domestic beer. Good for them, I guess?

 

[TheBlackBard]

Artists can be provocative. That's part of the gig. Not everyone is Cliff Richards.* Everyone saying that he just needs to write a stern letter to Bibi is some disingenuous bullshit.

If it gets the conversation going, it worked. Again, I don't think there are a bunch of Neo-Nazis sitting around going "fuck yeah! One of us! One of us! One of us!" at a Roger Waters show in 2023. I mean maybe, Nazis aren't known for being very bright.

You're definitely smart enough to get it, you've just bought into the narrative that anything anti-Isreal is inherently antisemitic. It's an easy inference to make, as there's a healthy political machine pushing that angle. Waters has even made the distinction between Isreal, the country's leadership, and it's people. Again, I'm not ride or die BDS'er, but I also take issue with a lot of modern day policy of Israel's leadership.

I also don't care that he did it in Germany. I'm sure Germany is very embarrassed about a certain time in their history as they should be. I also have mixed feelings about their hard line censorship. I understand it, and I'm not vehemently against it, but I think it's also purposely used to shut down real satire and give me "out of sight, out of mind" vibes.

Again, I think Waters is mostly a childish dipshit, and I'm sure he's learning harder into this because someone is telling him not to.

*I don't know, he seems inoffensive, couldn't think of a better example. YOLO.

Yeah maybe. I don't know, like... even if he isn't a Nazi, me personally, I still don't agree with the imagery he's using, what he's doing, and some his stage props, that shit just seems in really bad taste to me. I feel like you can send the same message another way without doing it the way he's doing it or if he is going to do it that way, maybe take night off of doing it like that in Germany? I will agree that he's a fucking asshole even if it's not for the same reason.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Yeah maybe. I don't know, like... even if he isn't a Nazi, me personally, I still don't agree with the imagery he's using, what he's doing, and some his stage props, that shit just seems in really bad taste to me. I feel like you can send the same message another way without doing it the way he's doing it or if he is going to do it that way, maybe take night off of doing it like that in Germany? I will agree that he's a fucking asshole even if it's not for the same reason.

I totally agree that it's tasteless, and he's obviously being overly provocative because he likes being a shit.

I still don't understand the pearl clutching over doing it in Germany, but I'm not German, so maybe there's an angle I'm not totally seeing. I'm sure it stings being reminded of that time period, but like, good. Maybe it's good to be uncomfortable with it.

 

[TheBlackBard]

I totally agree that it's tasteless, and he's obviously being overly provocative because he likes being a shit.

I still don't understand the pearl clutching over doing it in Germany, but I'm not German, so maybe there's an angle I'm not totally seeing. I'm sure it stings being reminded of that time period, but like, good. Maybe it's good to be uncomfortable with it.

They ARE uncomfortable with it. That's why they have laws in place where Nazi propaganda is illegal, it's illegal to openly state support for Hitler, and it's illegal to deny the Holocaust happened. I'm sure they're plenty uncomfortable in class learning about it, uncomfortable knowing they're a country that has a LOT of blood on its hands, uncomfortable knowing they have sites they've preserved for the memory of the victims. How much more uncomfortable can they be? How much reminding do they need? It's in their law, for God's sake.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

They ARE uncomfortable with it. That's why they have laws in place where Nazi propaganda is illegal, it's illegal to openly state support for Hitler, and it's illegal to deny the Holocaust happened. I'm sure they're plenty uncomfortable in class learning about it, uncomfortable knowing they're a country that has a LOT of blood on its hands, uncomfortable knowing they have sites they've preserved for the memory of the victims. How much more uncomfortable can they be? How much reminding do they need? It's in their law, for God's sake.

Forever and always.

Part of why things are so fucked up here in the United States is that we've pretty much run from the worst parts of our history and the longer we run, the harder and harder it is to heal. It's easier to whitewash and rebrand and pretend it never happened.

That said, you can't make thought illegal. So sure, you can't go full Nazi in Germany, legally, but that doesn't stop the thought. There's still active Neo-Nazis in Germany. So obviously just making everything illegal didn't just make it go away, as convenient as that would be.

 

[TheBlackBard]

Forever and always.

Part of why things are so fucked up here in the United States is that we've pretty much run from the worst parts of our history and the longer we run, the harder and harder it is to heal. It's easier to whitewash and rebrand and pretend it never happened.

That said, you can't make thought illegal. So sure, you can't go full Nazi in Germany, legally, but that doesn't stop the thought. There's still active Neo-Nazis in Germany. So obviously just making everything illegal didn't just make it go away, as convenient as that would be.

Well then maybe Roger should do that kind of show here since, you know...

Although if he's going to "mock" some of the people behind our problems, he's going to need a few different uniforms.