Steve Vai's 'tool-less tremolo system' prototype

[Randy]

The parker trem is a beautiful looking piece of hardware but it doesn't have enough string pressure over those ball bearings. If you dive bomb with it the strings ping and click all over the place. Its not a smooth sounding design. Would have been better if they did strings through the block rather than top load.

Never had a problem with mine. Between the different spring gauges and how much tension you can dial it in using the thumbwheel, there's a lot of 'wrong' ways to set it up. Are you sure the ones you used were correctly setup?

 

[dr_game0ver]

strings through saddle is nothing new, the mid 80' kahler 2520 has it...

 

[xwmucradiox]

Never had a problem with mine. Between the different spring gauges and how much tension you can dial it in using the thumbwheel, there's a lot of 'wrong' ways to set it up. Are you sure the ones you used were correctly setup?

Mine is on a Nitefly which I believe is a different spring configuration than the leaf springs on a Fly. But the baseplate and string angle are the same which is my issue. When you dive bomb the strings pop up off the ball bearings which makes an annoying noise I dont get with other trems.

 

[bostjan]

Neither of my two Parkers ever had a single problem with their trems. The flat springs were ultra-quiet, too, which makes going back to coiled springs seem so much noisier.

 

[Sermo Lupi]

Kahler's nuts are a weird history - I believe they did have a version of the Finger-Tite I just mentioned, but I'm not clear on whether that was an aftermarket thing marketed very weakly, or if it was ever a production option on anything.

The normal Kahler nuts however, were basically a floyd nute behind the actual nut, and worked terribly, because they allowed the strings to stick in the nut - the exact problem Floyd Rose's solution avoided. (Of course, they had no choice, while Floyd's idea was under patent, so whatever, but this was one reason kahler have repeatedly failed on the market)

I have a guitar with a Kahler, and actually the 'behind the nut' locking nut is probably more of a design feature than a flaw. Regular nuts are easily replaced, re-filed, and honestly don't bind much at all, whereas a floyd locking nut leaves you with less flexibility. Kahler's system basically just leaves you with the advantages of the existing nut while adding functionality for locking--trust me, those strings aren't moving once they're locked down.

Also, anecdotes are only worth so much, but of the guitars I own, one has a Floyd and one has a Kahler. But do the job equally well and, while they definitely feel a bit different, they have about the same tuning stability. If anything I'd say the Kahler is slightly more stable, actually. That's the 2300 model.

And as for the tool-less locking nut, yeah, Kahler's been doing that for ages. Not really a new concept, but if Floyd Rose can put their own spin on it, all the power to them.

 

[edsped]

I've wanted an answer to this for a long time - The Tremol-No guys are quite clear that if you take all the strings off your guitar, the tremol-no won't hold that kind of tension, and the springs will force it to move.

But wouldn't Tremol-No + D-Tuna make it pretty easy to use a D-Tuna on a floating OFR? It's only being asked to hang onto a couple extra pounds of force after all, not 60+.

Tremol-No + D-Tuna works fine, but you need a top mounted floating Floyd or a route for the D-Tuna, like some of Nuno's guitars have.

 

[StevenC]

I am kind of missing the point of this, I guess. I am sure Vai has a guitar tech. For the rest of us, what is the big deal about keeping a set of tools? I mean you have to have a place for extra strings right? Why not keep the tool there, like we all do.

Vai does have a guitar tech, his name is Thomas Nordegg and he's much more into gear and tinkering than Steve. Not only that, but I imagine he deals with a lot more Edge setups and string changes than Steve. I'd say there's a good chance this idea didn't come from Steve.

 

[Dayn]

Vai does have a guitar tech, his name is Thomas Nordegg and he's much more into gear and tinkering than Steve. Not only that, but I imagine he deals with a lot more Edge setups and string changes than Steve. I'd say there's a good chance this idea didn't come from Steve.

With Vai's shows and the amount of guitars he has, I imagine there's a lot of time and effort to be saved by his tech without having to fiddle with allen keys, screws, and blocks.

 

[Nag]

because the worst thing when being on tour with the band is needing an allen key, right ?

 

[Dayn]

I'd be more concerned with losing the fiddly screws and string blocks. Ten guitars, 60 little fiddly parts that each has a chance of being dropped or lost.

 

[Science_Penguin]

I'd be more concerned with losing the fiddly screws and string blocks. Ten guitars, 60 little fiddly parts that each has a chance of being dropped or lost.

That's what I like about Kahler's design- everything's screwed on like a nice well-put together machine. Floyd's "screws mashing against blocks mashing against strings" design always seemed to me like a jury rigged garage project intended as a prototype, but then someone said "Nah, that works, let's roll with it!"

 

[Grindspine]

Gotoh designed a tool-less Floyd licensed bridge back in 1985 for the WRC (Wayne Charvel) Gibson model. Tool-less clamping that is; Allen screws are still needed for saddle height and intonation.

I scored one of these for an older guitar and adore the design.

 

[Leviathus]

I thought this was super old news and they scrapped the idea a while ago....

 

[Rachmaninoff]

Why not just use locking tuners and a non-locking tremolo?

Because it will never be stable as a double-locking system. I own PRS, EBMM... they're pretty good, but my Ibanez is a level above, Edge system simply won't go out of tune, it doesn't matter how much abuse I inflict.

Guthrie Govan, who openly says to hate double-locking systems, gave up the non-locking tremolo years ago. Now he's using a locking tremolo with locking tuners and a bone nut lubricated with Big Bends Nut Sauce... and he still retunes his guitar after almost each song (although he hits heally heavy on his 010's).

 

[OmegaSlayer]

About the ball bearings, I think the insanely pricey bridge that Yamaha Custom line had in the 90s was ace.
I'll take pics of how it works for you guys when I get back home.

(this is an image I found on the net)

But...the only consideration is that there's one thing working against us guitarists, and it's money.
We won't ever have the perfect bridge because patents and stuff.
Even the most perfectEST bridge will miss a usefully feature or 2.

 

[Andromalia]

Well, patents aren't eternal even if we won't see their end ourselves.
That said, even if the end result isn't good, it's cool people still do research on trems.

 

[bostjan]

I'd be more concerned with losing the fiddly screws and string blocks. Ten guitars, 60 little fiddly parts that each has a chance of being dropped or lost.

QFT.

I recall losing the 3rd string during a show and then realizing after the show that my main guitar was missing a tiny saddle block. Luckily I brought a backup guitar with a standard fixed bridge.

 

[GuitarBizarre]

Well, patents aren't eternal even if we won't see their end ourselves.
That said, even if the end result isn't good, it's cool people still do research on trems.

Utility Patents are only 20 years. Most of us will survive to see every patented product we think is revolutionary now, become obsolete and public domain. And then some.

 

[shadowlife]

I'd rather just keep an extra allen key on hand.

Vigier's locking trem is still my favorite, and the standard by which i judge all others.

 

[Scordare]

Here is the Kahler design

I love tremolo guitars and have never really understood the hate for cutting off ball ends and having wrenches...