string height in a 7 string with FR

[chopeth]

Hi, mates! Probably stupid question because there's no exact science about it and everybody prefers a different height but my 7 stringer 27'' axe with Floyd Rose is 3mm from the 14th fret (first string) and 4mm from the same fret in the seventh string. Is that even comfortable for you? it's not for me as I don't play that guitar that much lately and I'm more used to fixed bridges, and my guitar with hipshot fixed goes from 1,7mm to 2,5 or so.

If the answer is: dude, you have to lower that, it's extremely uncomfy, I'd ask another question... The floyd upper part plate is completely parallel to the body of the guitar and in the same height, isn't that a proper setting? because I think it is, and lowering the two screws in each side would lower the entire system, I don't know if I'm making myself clear here...

 

[BrutalRob]

If the tremolo base plate will sit lower than the body of the guitar, so be it. This would certainly not be more important to me than a decent setup. Half of what you have would be ideal to me.
How much neck relief do you have?

 

[chopeth]

If the tremolo base plate will sit lower than the body of the guitar, so be it. This would certainly not be more important to me than a decent setup. Half of what you have would be ideal to me.
How much neck relief do you have?

I don't know very well, should measure it probably, right?

 

[odibrom]

By your description, the guitar would be unplayable to me.

Bear in mind that the longer the scale length, the higher the action, BUT it's not 1mm higher than smaller scale lengths. You're with more than 2mm for what I use in my guitars. It's a lot. My action is normally bellow 1.5mm on the bass strings and bellow 1.25mm on the treble ones, for 25.5" 7 stringers.

You should do a deep setup to your guitar. Start with
1 - tuning to the desired pitch,
2 - then set the Floyd's spring tension (it should have its base-plate parallel to the guitars' body top surface),
3 - the neck relief (pressing 1st and last fret simultaneously, you should have about 0.5 to 1mm gap between the 12th fret's top and the strings' bottom),
4 - then action at the bridge,
5 - then intonation.
6 - re-check tuning to desired pitch.

Things to pay attention to:
- generalized Fret buzz on open strings and up to 12th fret (more or less) - there's too much tension on the neck, relieve it by turning counter clock wise the truss rod's nut.
- generalized fret buzz beyond the 12th fret (12th to 24th frets) - bridge's action is too low
- local fret buzz (only at one specific fret and string) - may be different problems, either a grooved fret or a raised one further up the neck. Contact a local tech to level and crown and polish your guitar's frets.
- overall sound too boomy - pickup is probably too close to the strings, back it off a bit
- overall sound too weak - pickup is probably too far from the strings, raise it up a bit.

 

[chopeth]

By your description, the guitar would be unplayable to me.

Bear in mind that the longer the scale length, the higher the action, BUT it's not 1mm higher than smaller scale lengths. You're with more than 2mm for what I use in my guitars. It's a lot. My action is normally bellow 1.5mm on the bass strings and bellow 1.25mm on the treble ones, for 25.5" 7 stringers.

You should do a deep setup to your guitar. Start with
1 - tuning to the desired pitch,
2 - then set the Floyd's spring tension (it should have its base-plate parallel to the guitars' body top surface),
3 - the neck relief (pressing 1st and last fret simultaneously, you should have about 0.5 to 1mm gap between the 12th fret's top and the strings' bottom),
4 - then action at the bridge,
5 - then intonation.
6 - re-check tuning to desired pitch.

Things to pay attention to:
- generalized Fret buzz on open strings and up to 12th fret (more or less) - there's too much tension on the neck, relieve it by turning counter clock wise the truss rod's nut.
- generalized fret buzz beyond the 12th fret (12th to 24th frets) - bridge's action is too low
- local fret buzz (only at one specific fret and string) - may be different problems, either a grooved fret or a raised one further up the neck. Contact a local tech to level and crown and polish your guitar's frets.
- overall sound too boomy - pickup is probably too close to the strings, back it off a bit
- overall sound too weak - pickup is probably too far from the strings, raise it up a bit.

Great and detailed answer, I fulfill the first two for sure, but have to take a look to the neck relief and then check the remaining steps

... and then I assume that the base plate is not completely defining of the correct setup of the FR as it is completely level with the body of the guitar in spite of such a big height from the string to the fret?

 

[BrutalRob]

The reason I ask you to check neck relief is: From my experience, if the base plate already is at level with the body but your action is that high, you might have way too much neck relief.
when on my guitars the baseplate was on level with the body and the neck relief was ok, the action was very low.

 

[chopeth]

Thats my hypothesis too!

The reason I ask you to check neck relief is: From my experience, if the base plate already is at level with the body but your action is that high, you might have way too much neck relief.
when on my guitars the baseplate was on level with the body and the neck relief was ok, the action was very low.

 

[BrutalRob]

Though if you gonna measure like odibrom suggested, don´t go any bigger than 0,5 mm.

I do this slightly different, hold down on first and 17th fret, meausre above 8th fret. About 0,2-0,3 mm is fine

 

[odibrom]

Great and detailed answer, I fulfill the first two for sure, but have to take a look to the neck relief and then check the remaining steps

... and then I assume that the base plate is not completely defining of the correct setup of the FR as it is completely level with the body of the guitar in spite of such a big height from the string to the fret?

Yes, the Floyd's base-plate is not a final reference for a correct setup, far from it. It depends a lot from guitar to guitar, Flat top guitars (Fender style) may be as you say, arched top guitar probably not, more so if they have an angled neck.

The reason I ask you to check neck relief is: From my experience, if the base plate already is at level with the body but your action is that high, you might have way too much neck relief.
when on my guitars the baseplate was on level with the body and the neck relief was ok, the action was very low.

This is true, but again it depends a lot on the guitar...

Thats my hypothesis too!

When following those steps listed above, do them with the locking nut loose. Only lock it after the final tuning check. Regarding having the floyd leveled with the guitar's body top, it's more important to think of it as parallel and not as higher or lower than. The floyd's height is directly dependent on the guitar's construction and as so should be addressed.

Though if you gonna measure like odibrom suggested, don´t go any bigger than 0,5 mm.

I do this slightly different, hold down on first and 17th fret, meausre above 8th fret. About 0,2-0,3 mm is fine

It's functional as well. The point is for one to find a suitable measurement method and stick to it for consistency sake. Since some guitars have 24 frets and others do not, maybe your method is safer so one may have have the same setup consistency through different guitars...

Personally, I began with the 1st and last frets because one has to start somewhere, but then I grind a notched ruler and measure the neck relief with it, it's the gap between its bottom and the fingerboard's surface at the 12th fret, generally measuring about between 0.20 to 0.30 mm. More than that and the guitars will start to feel difficult to play...

 

[BrutalRob]

dude, i agree with all you said. You just have to keep in mind, wenn fretting at 17th fret instead of 24th, you will shorten the distance and therefore have a lesser gap, with same neck adjustment. so while i measure 0,2-0,3mm when fretting 1st and 17th fret, measuring the gap above 8th fret (roundabout half the distance when 17th fret is fretted), 0,5 should be about the same gap when fretting the 24th fret.
0,2-0,3mm when fretting at last fret seems a bit too little relief to me but then again, as you stated, it all depends on the guitar and this is a starting point.
Listening to how much the strings will buzz from fret 1-7 will tell you if you have too little relief

 

[chopeth]

Well, I remeasured it, and the height changed (I must have been tired and didn't do it properly. Now I realized it wasn't as dramatic since I got 2,5mm in the 1st string and 2,75 in the 7th, still to high, especially in the thin strings. I tried what you said, holding down 1st and 17th frets the strings got pretty much evenly very close to the frets, probably in that range of 0,2-0,3mm so maybe I have to lower the bottom screw in the floyd rose, as I noticed that part is a bit raised from the body contour (which by the way is completely flat top) and the upper part of the FR is completely levelled to the body. I added some pics in case you can check them out, although I understand they might be difficult to arrive to a conclusion without the proper axe in your hands. Edit: the first two pics try to show the neck-body deviation but don't know if that can be appreciate either.

 

[elkoki]

If your relief is set well, and your Floyd Rose is bottoming out and the action is still too high, you might need to shim the neck .

You're gonna want to put the shim at the bottom of the neck pocket, it will then raise the neck higher up to the strings, you will have to raise your Floyd Rose higher and likely have to set up the guitar again. This is likely what you need seeing how your Floyd appears too low and if the string height is still too high a shim is likely what you need.

 

[BrutalRob]

looks to me like on the plain string side, the floyd baseplate is not level with the body and could still be lowered.
But again, this should not be your main concern. just adjust the string height and if the floyd is slightly below body level, this will not be the end of the world

 

[chopeth]

If your relief is set well, and your Floyd Rose is bottoming out and the action is still too high, you might need to shim the neck .

You're gonna want to put the shim at the bottom of the neck pocket, it will then raise the neck higher up to the strings, you will have to raise your Floyd Rose higher and likely have to set up the guitar again. This is likely what you need seeing how your Floyd appears too low and if the string height is still too high a shim is likely what you need.

That is very interesting, but as it implies taking the neck out to shim it, I'll try first lowering the bridge a little bit, I think

 

[elkoki]

That is very interesting, but as it implies taking the neck out to shim it, I'll try first lowering the bridge a little bit, I think

Yeah you can lower it some more , looks like you still have room to bring it down a little .. but for how low the bridge looks , the action seems a bit high especially if the relief is set well . You might want to double check that you don’t have too much relief in the neck / truss rod too loose.

Your guitar is a bolt on right ? I only shim a neck as a last resort .. for example an Ibanez I bought , the neck relief was perfect but even with the saddles bottomed out the action was super high as you reached the higher frets . Something like 3.5mm maybe higher . At this point the only option was to shim it , a shim will position the neck at a better angle , bringing the strings much closer to the fretboard that you will have to raise your Floyd . So not only will the action be much more comfortable , the Floyd won’t look awkward either . It might not be necessary in your case but I have a feeling it might be

3pcs Guitar Neck Shims Shim Made of Canada Solid Maple Wooden, For Bolt-on Neck Bolts, Shaped 0.25 0.5, 1 Degree https://a.co/d/5gxOB1g

 

[chopeth]

The guitar is a Ran Crusher 7 27'' and I noticed checking my other Ran Crusher with fixed hipshot that the string height in both is quite similar. That made me think maybe the construction of the guitar, longer scale is constructed to have higher string distance or maybe I'm just concluding bullshit. I'll just try to lower the floyd rose and see how it comes.

 

[elkoki]

The guitar is a Ran Crusher 7 27'' and I noticed checking my other Ran Crusher with fixed hipshot that the string height in both is quite similar. That made me think maybe the construction of the guitar, longer scale is constructed to have higher string distance or maybe I'm just concluding bullshit. I'll just try to lower the floyd rose and see how it comes.

Maybe , doesn’t hurt to message the company either , get their advice . Good luck

 

[Emperoff]

Well, I remeasured it, and the height changed (I must have been tired and didn't do it properly. Now I realized it wasn't as dramatic since I got 2,5mm in the 1st string and 2,75 in the 7th, still to high, especially in the thin strings. I tried what you said, holding down 1st and 17th frets the strings got pretty much evenly very close to the frets, probably in that range of 0,2-0,3mm so maybe I have to lower the bottom screw in the floyd rose, as I noticed that part is a bit raised from the body contour (which by the way is completely flat top) and the upper part of the FR is completely levelled to the body. I added some pics in case you can check them out, although I understand they might be difficult to arrive to a conclusion without the proper axe in your hands. Edit: the first two pics try to show the neck-body deviation but don't know if that can be appreciate either.

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Those pickups are also way too far from the strings!

Have you checked the nut to see if it was shimmed? Maybe you're lucky and there's a shim below the nut. If there isn't, you can always take it to a qualified tech to shim the neck or make the nut slot deeper so the action can get lower.

Maybe , doesn’t hurt to message the company either , get their advice . Good luck

Yeah, good luck with that

 

[elkoki]

Those pickups are also way too far from the strings!

They look fine to me, pickup height is a preference.. I also keep my pickups somewhat low when I want more clarity and less output. I've seen pickups even lower than the OP's, I do that with my neck pickups and they usually sound a lot better that way to me

 

[chopeth]

Those pickups are also way too far from the strings!

Have you checked the nut to see if it was shimmed? Maybe you're lucky and there's a shim below the nut. If there isn't, you can always take it to a qualified tech to shim the neck or make the nut slot deeper so the action can get lower.



Yeah, good luck with that

Yeah, Ran guitars is long time dead now, no possibility to ask. I like the pickups how they are, tried several heights and that was the best for wo much output that the warpigs deliver. I guess I'll have to get used to that string height or take it to a qualified tech, which I don't have any near nor time to take the guitar to it. Thanks everybody who try to help. Cheers!