The BRJ Black Friday Thread (Only for updates for/by customers.)[Ad Free]

[WickedSymphony]

Bank, meaning credit card? Or did you link PP to your actual bank account? And what aspect of the emails made them refund the money? You don't have any kind of smoking gun sort of email, so I'm wondering what did it. I'd like to be able to make the same case.

Yeh, I have my Visa with Bank of America. After mtndrew posted that he had luck with them, I gave it a shot. My transaction was in June 2012 so they couldn't do it over the phone and I had to fax them everything.

Basically, in addition to the transaction number, posting date, etc., I sent them every e-mail I had since the date of the final transaction, all the contact info I had for Bernie, and I had to describe my situation as the events occurred (I wrote maybe 3/4 of a page in Word or so). I also sent links to this thread and to BRJ's facebook page to show that other people are in the same predicament to show more credibility for my story.

Also, this transaction was one directly to BRJ when he was doing the final payments through his site, if that changes anything. I'm not sure how this changes if it was linked through paypal, although my paypal is linked to my account.

As far as what exactly was in the e-mails that made them do it, I have no idea. I just told them about all the excuses he made for delays and they were reflected in the e-mails along with the lack of responses back from him over the past year. I'm fairly certain that linking to here and his facebook made my case much stronger than the e-mails alone would have.

 

[SpaceDock]

^ Same here, visa via wells fargo. I really had to bitch up a storm and talked to 5 bankers over several hours. Got my final payment back, but paypal told me to .... off with my deposit. Paypal wont do anything for me at all.

There is a 8-10 week review period where they are looking into the situation, but I did get the "provisional credit" so I am praying they don't take it back.

The emails just show the constant delays. The main point I tried to drive home with them is that this is like a contractor for a home. You dont get the product up front, but instead pay as progress is made and he kept delaying, therefore the 1 year starts at his last date of contact.

At this point I really think it is more of a customer satisfaction/loyalty benefit more than legal reparations. If you have this option, do it now!! Time is not on your side.

 

[WickedSymphony]

^ Same here, visa via wells fargo. I really had to bitch up a storm and talked to 5 bankers over several hours. Got my final payment back, but paypal told me to .... off with my deposit. Paypal wont do anything for me at all.

Luckily with Bank of America, the calls in total took maybe 20 minutes including getting transferred around to the right departments, but I really didn't have to make any massive fuss or anything. In my case, I never got a provisional credit. It was nothing for 3~ weeks and then an account adjustment along with the interest back on the amount.

I'm not surprised about Paypal, but I'd imagine most people do the Paypal transaction through their credit card so you could still try with the bank directly. I got my spot from someone else on here so I'm not gonna go after them, obviously, but I don't think there's a viable way for me to go after BRJ for the remainder at this point. Anything I could think of would probably just be throwing good money after bad (along with a whole lot of headache on top of it).

 

[Khoi]

Luckily with Bank of America, the calls in total took maybe 20 minutes including getting transferred around to the right departments, but I really didn't have to make any massive fuss or anything. In my case, I never got a provisional credit. It was nothing for 3~ weeks and then an account adjustment along with the interest back on the amount.

I'm not surprised about Paypal, but I'd imagine most people do the Paypal transaction through their credit card so you could still try with the bank directly. I got my spot from someone else on here so I'm not gonna go after them, obviously, but I don't think there's a viable way for me to go after BRJ for the remainder at this point. Anything I could think of would probably just be throwing good money after bad (along with a whole lot of headache on top of it).

I'm going to attempt to call Bank of America, I made my final payment through them. I can't remember if my deposit was with money already in my PayPal or not, but it's linked to my Bank of America account anyways.

What did you tell them when you first called customer service? Which department would I need to go through?

 

[WickedSymphony]

I'm going to attempt to call Bank of America, I made my final payment through them. I can't remember if my deposit was with money already in my PayPal or not, but it's linked to my Bank of America account anyways.

What did you tell them when you first called customer service? Which department would I need to go through?

I did this like 4 weeks ago so I don't remember everything exactly, but hopefully this helps:

https://www.bankofamerica.com/credit-cards/security-faq.go

I used the number listed here to contact them and told them I needed to file a dispute. I had the statement, transaction reference number, etc., but they still had a bit of trouble finding it since it was so old. One guy managed to find it but had to transfer me to the next department to actually handle it, but the guy there said since it was over a year he couldn't even see it on the computer (even though the previous guy had saved it for him) and I'd have to fax my claim in, and he told me to send as much relevant information as I possibly could for the best chances of getting it done. As far as what I told them in the call, it was just a recount of what had happened as best as I could remember. I didn't have to use any analogies to explain what a custom instrument order was like the way others had to in order to get the point across, and I didn't have to raise hell on the phone or anything to make them help me out.

I jotted down the numbers they transferred me to in notepad so I think this one is the last one i ended up at since I wrote 'billing dispute' next to it. (It took like 3 or 4 transfers to end up in the right place altogether so this might not be it.)

800-457-3693

Then they gave me the fax number here: 1-888-672-6262

I just googled a free online fax service to send it (about 8 pages of emails) since I don't have a personal fax. (Found one called myfax or something that worked, just attached the .doc file to send it)

In my fax, top to bottom, I listed my name, best contact number, account #, posting date, transaction reference number, transaction description, transaction amount, story of what happened with as much detail as possible, whatever contact info I had for BRJ (address, phone, cell, website, facebook, email), link to this thread, and my entire e-mail history (including headers) since he asked for the final payment.

In my explanation of what happened, I referenced the specific things in my case (him being dodgy with delays, missed delivery dates, back and forth about what actually needed to be redone), and all the things we heard happened through here along with time references to the best of my knowledge. I also explained that I had tried to be as accommodating as possible given the circumstances, but at this point I was simply out of options. I was always polite in my e-mails because a) I didn't want him to screw up the guitar any worse given how things had been going and then be left with him leaving me a messed up instrument/no refund, and b) I knew it probably wouldn't look good for my case if I was being a dick should it have come to this situation. I think the most important thing was that my e-mails reflected my story, and linking to here and facebook showed that I wasn't making things up. (There's literally no way someone could possibly fake THIS much information and posting content for a dispute)

Anyway, maybe that was a bit long winded, but I really hope it helps some of you guys out. Any other questions feel free to ask here or in PM. Best of luck!

 

[Hollowway]

I will likely try it, although my CC is not through BofA. But really, getting my $600 back from someone else doesn't really make me feel totally satisfied. The fact is I want either the money or the guitar from Bernie. It doesn't make sense that me, or my CC company, should make a "donation" to Bernie. I can think of millions of people more deserving of a donation from me than he. I've hung in there patiently waiting for him, but the fact is Terri is making zero effort to protect his legacy, help him out, or help any of us out. She's got a house full of guitars she could do something with, or plan to do something with, and instead of telling us what she's thinking we just get radio silence. I still plan on filing suit, or using whatever other avenues I have to get the guitar or money back. I fully understand he may not have the money, but he does have the guitar. And I paid for it.

 

[WickedSymphony]

Yeh, I feel the same way. I just wouldn't feel right going after the original spot holder for the deposit money, and I waited out because I'd much rather have gotten the guitar from Bernie and come to a happier solution. Hell, I would've even taken the incomplete guitar and parts when Terry started posting on facebook last month. I messaged her twice with absolutely no response. These people honestly don't give a shit at all.

The only thing for me is that after it's all said and done I'd probably just come out even more behind than I already am, and at this point it's been such a terrible experience I'd probably just get rid of the guitar instantly; I don't want the name of a POS like that on any guitars I own. If a good opportunity rises for me where I know I can get the rest of my money back from Bernie then I'll take it, but for now I'm just going to cut my losses. It's not worth it to me to potentially screw myself more just to recover that $600.

In any case, I'm probably just gonna stick to guitars from major companies now (I do have some past due NGDs I should get around to posting, actually). It would've been nice to get the exact guitar I wanted, but it's not worth the risk of being dicked around by the builder and BRJ is far from the only one pulling that stuff off.

I just hope his name is tarnished enough that no one tries to order something from him again. Though it honestly amazes me that throughout all this people STILL asked where to place an order - good luck to them.

 

[Hollowway]

^ Amen to all of that.

 

[MetalDaze]

Well, unlike the rest of us, these banks do have the means to file some nasty lawsuits to reclaim the money they are refunding, especially if they start getting flooded with claims for BRJ.

So, you may not be donating to the BRJ fund after all

 

[Hollowway]

^ Yeah, that's a good point. Though, I would guess that the group of us (as a whole, or especially the number that actually dedicate the time to file something with them) will be a mere blip on their radar. Still, it is another way to call attention to it.

 

[WickedSymphony]

Well, unlike the rest of us, these banks do have the means to file some nasty lawsuits to reclaim the money they are refunding, especially if they start getting flooded with claims for BRJ.

So, you may not be donating to the BRJ fund after all

Well, as of now I still donated $600, haha. Though earlier this month I thought I had donated 3.5x that so I'm (relatively) happy with that and knowing that they'll hopefully go after him for it.

 

[MJS]

I will likely try it, although my CC is not through BofA. But really, getting my $600 back from someone else doesn't really make me feel totally satisfied. The fact is I want either the money or the guitar from Bernie. It doesn't make sense that me, or my CC company, should make a "donation" to Bernie.

If you're talking about a charge-back, the money your CC company gives to you gets yanked from Bernie's account.

He'd have a chance to dispute it, but proof of delivering the goods that were paid for is about the only way to reverse one, as a merchant. My guess is that there would be no dispute.

 

[Hollowway]

If you're talking about a charge-back, the money your CC company gives to you gets yanked from Bernie's account.

He'd have a chance to dispute it, but proof of delivering the goods that were paid for is about the only way to reverse one, as a merchant. My guess is that there would be no dispute.

Yes, but a charge back, IIRC, has a limited length of time in which it is valid. My guess is that he was right and BofA just credited him the money back as a CS move, and is not going after BRJ. But it would be awesome if they did.

 

[WickedSymphony]

My guess is that he was right and BofA just credited him the money back as a CS move, and is not going after BRJ.

Well, oddly enough I just found out from my bank that they're still trying to contact BRJ. So I guess that it's not over yet. They said they'll contact me again within 30 days to let me know the result. Boy do I feel stupid for getting excited so quickly. Guess I jumped the gun and thought it was over since it took them nearly a month to post anything at all, and it showed up as an adjustment with no mention of it being temporary (never had to dispute something until this so I don't know how it usually goes).

I'd imagine at this point that either they won't get any response from him at all, or like MJS said that he'll have to provide proof of delivery to counter my claim. I don't see how there is any way that he could counter my dispute, and if they're looking into it, why they wouldn't find it in my favor by the end of this.

Sorry for raising a ruckus in here lol. Still, I really recommend everyone try contacting their banks for this. At the very least they're investigating it when I thought that we were way out of the dispute window, and I think if more claims go in they'd be more alerted to the issue.

I'll keep you guys up to date with what happens from here.

 

[Speculum Speculorum]

What the hell does a temporary credit back even mean? Did they put money in your account? What? Are they going to charge you for it if you spend it and they ultimately doesn't resolve? I don't understand this. AT ALL.

 

[Hollowway]

Actually, I think that's really good news for them to reach out to him. I mean, all any of us are really after is to know what is going on. (Well, we want our guitars, but honest communication has been the big issue here.) I'm not sure the bank will get any more information than any of us has, but since they're "official" it might result in Terri or BRJ saying what they plan to do with all those guitars at the house.

 

[WickedSymphony]

What the hell does a temporary credit back even mean? Did they put money in your account? What? Are they going to charge you for it if you spend it and they ultimately doesn't resolve? I don't understand this. AT ALL.

Basically as I understand it, while the charge is under investigation they credited the amount in dispute back to my card. Looking at my account online, it shows a 'balance adjustment' for the original amount and a 'credit protection adjustment' for the interest, both of which are non-pending, completed transactions. I had assumed from the wording and the time that had passed since filing that they had already investigated, but I got a letter just now regarding my dispute and contacted their CS to find out what was going on, and so I found out that it's still under investigation.

I personally don't understand the reason for the temp credit back if it's still under investigation, but I'm glad that they're at least investigating it instead of turning me away outright due to the long time period. As I said in the last post, I can only imagine that they'll either not get any response from BRJ or that he'll have to provide proof that he sent my guitar (which he didn't do and is thus unable to provide it). I suppose the third scenario would be that they give some excuse that they still intend to deliver the guitar, but I'm not sure that that excuse would fly given the constant delays shown in the e-mails and all the other issues regarding his absence right now.

@Hollowway - While it would be nice to have an honest answer about what's going on, I think the time for that has simply passed. We've all been more patient than they deserve, and every time they've communicated 'honestly' about their plans it has just resulted in false promises and even more delays for all but a select few who managed to get their guitars. Looking at their facebook, it took months to update the first time he went into the hospital, and when he came back that only lasted a few months and hardly any guitars seemed to go out. And now Terri says to message her about outstanding orders and it looks like most of us just got ignored. I'm confident any update they tell to the bank, much like when the BBB contacted them, wouldn't result in much of a resolution for the majority of us involved in this.

At this point, I don't want to know what's going on so much as I want to get what I can back out of this and wash my hands of it.

 

[JPMike]

I am so tired with the whole situation that I have started to not even care...

But what's going on at the moment??

 

[WickedSymphony]

Update: BoA says they consider my dispute resolved, but BRJ still has a chance to dispute my claim by providing documentation showing why he considers the transaction to be valid. (I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.)

Mike, how long have you been out of the thread? Quite a bit's happened depending on when you were last in here, but I think the last 5 pages or so covers everything new.

 

[spawnsc]

I tried to dispute with Bank of America few months back they put the money in as temporary and then returned the transaction back to them maybe I should try again to see what happens.

So wicked did they finalize everything for you? when will they give it the ok?