The Carvin / Kiesel thread

[Wucan]

^Was just fiddling with the builder now, not bad even with a few extra frills. Raw tone finish only though, not my cup of tea sadly.

 

[Avedas]

I once asked Jeff about 27 frets and he more or less said they were stupid and he hates them

Of course he said the same about multiscale trems before too

 

[Hollowway]

I once asked Jeff about 27 frets and he more or less said they were stupid and he hates them

Of course he said the same about multiscale trems before too

That usually means he’s about to release it, lol. It’s like a poker “tell.”

 

[mbardu]

Dang...the couple of times I paid attention to the pricing in Balaguer's builder, I'd run about 50/50 with them being more or less expensive than Kiesel for similar spec, and Balaguer offered some things Kiesel didn't in some areas, and less in others.

I had never looked at a price of a Vandermeij before, but did a (as close as I could) comparison to Kiesel. They only had one in-stock with a price, so I wasn't cherry-picking anything...it was the only one with a price.

This guitar is €3899, which (according to Google) equates to $4,235 USD:
View attachment 137318

For Kiesel, I priced it against their A2. Same body and top wood, the neck I did walnut and maple 5-piece, same compound radius birdseye fretboard. To try to get price parity on pickups I wennt with the Fluence, which are about $100 less than the BKP Mule set, but I balanced that difference by pricing in an Evertune bridge which costs give-or-take the same amount more than the Schaller Hannes bridge.

In the end, it came out to $3559 with the G&G-made hardshell case, about $675 less than the in-stock Vandermeij. I know some would see the standard tuners as a 'down grade" compared to Hipshot, so it is missing that, but I think the G&G-made Kiesel hard case is a much more expensive case than the Gator case Vandermeij includes, so that more than evens out.
View attachment 137320

One thing that saved me a bunch I think on the Vandermeij was also that I wanted a simple oiled finish, which I believe makes a big difference there.
For the case he must have changed since, because I got a VERY substantial Hiscox case; and yeah, I wouldn't trade that or a G&G for a Gator.

PS: The shape of the flame top on the A2 is very weird when you look at it in the builder with a black outline. Never realized before

 

[soliloquy]

Came in excitedly when i saw Devin Townsend is joining the Carvin/Kiesel family.
Checked the price, and i'm staying out....cool looking and unique though.


way back when, I did message DT, as I thought the MIDI options that are present on some of the carvin guitars would be of great use for Devin's ambient work. I still think that could be of use for him, but whatever.

 

[mikernaut]

I'm hoping this will be Paul Masvidal's sig. Such a cool looking Lightspeed. Sounds like they were having some tech issues during the performances though

 

[Hollowway]

In an interesting cross section of, “I wasn’t going to spec out a custom, but this in stock build looks nice” and “how do I get rid of a lot of money fast” there’s a $25,000 K series on the in stock page. For you high roller types.

 

[Alberto7]

He's said he wouldn't let it go for less than $20k.

There was a 2nd K series guitar that was built from slices of the same billet as Koa Angel's top, but the other woods are less upgraded.

They've made a at least one more of those Ultra V7 multiscale. Like the Type X basses and Osiris Double necks, they've never been on the builder but I dont think the upcharge is all that much.

In an interesting cross section of, “I wasn’t going to spec out a custom, but this in stock build looks nice” and “how do I get rid of a lot of money fast” there’s a $25,000 K series on the in stock page. For you high roller types.

Hahaha we were just talking about that very guitar a few pages ago. Seems Jeff wasn't kidding and he is indeed a flipper like us!
I still think that is the nicest guitar they've ever done. Though at $25k I'm like 3/4 of the way into a nice Parker archtop, and I'm not getting a Kiesel when those are the kinds of alternatives one starts to think about at that price range. Or, you know, a car.

 

[JimF]

Or 20x used Prestiges

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Just trying to hype the brand.

Jeff's big push the entire time he's been "the guy" has been to elevate the brand from a plucky little guitar builder known as a budget option in the custom guitar space into being respected as a high end boutique luthiery operation à la Anderson or Waghorn or something.

 

[Wucan]

Just trying to hype the brand.

Jeff's big push the entire time he's been "the guy" has been to elevate the brand from a plucky little guitar builder known as a budget option in the custom guitar space into being respected as a high end boutique luthiery operation à la Anderson or Waghorn or something.

I'm not sure if it's about the brand becoming as "respected" as high end shops as much as it is about expanding its footprint to drive sales. Kiesel is very price-focused still, base builds will cost people as much as entry-level US Gibson/Fenders off the shelf and they hold frequent sales. They make their margin on customization, not necessarily on making the best playing guitars ever.

You can tell what kind of customers they want - people who will just not stop ordering Kiesels because they like the value proposition while not minding to pay extra to get the looks and woods they want. As someone else paraphrased earlier in the thread, the plain $1500 A2 will play just as well as the $4000 monster burst with extinct woods version.

 

[Moongrum]

I'm not sure if it's about the brand becoming as "respected" as high end shops as much as it is about expanding its footprint to drive sales. Kiesel is very price-focused still, base builds will cost people as much as entry-level US Gibson/Fenders off the shelf and they hold frequent sales. They make their margin on customization, not necessarily on making the best playing guitars ever.

You can tell what kind of customers they want - people who will just not stop ordering Kiesels because they like the value proposition while not minding to pay extra to get the looks and woods they want. As someone else paraphrased earlier in the thread, the plain $1500 A2 will play just as well as the $4000 monster burst with extinct woods version.

Jeff does try to position his guitars as being comparable to Suhr, PRS, etc., but I think he's trying to convince the public of that, not necessarily make guitars that are comparable, because I agree with your take. Kiesel will never compare to something like Suhr because I don't think they could ever reach the same attention to detail and customer service. John Suhr is actually insane, in a good way. I remember someone posting about JHS fucking up a rehouse job of a Suhr pedal on TGP and John was BEGGING the poster to send it into him because he wanted to fix it (for free) so bad, and was talking about how it requires special tools, etc etc I've seen him do the same about his guitars. I could NEVER see Jeff doing that

 

[somethingsomething]

Suhrs are great guitars but my hot take is that they're pretty overhyped. I think a lot of that has to do with how much goodwill John Suhr has generated (versus Jeff being a fucking knob). The Kiesels I've played have been just as nice as the Suhrs. But yeah, QC is probably better overall from Suhr (and Suhr is definitely better when it comes to customer service).

 

[AltecGreen]

Just trying to hype the brand.

Jeff's big push the entire time he's been "the guy" has been to elevate the brand from a plucky little guitar builder known as a budget option in the custom guitar space into being respected as a high end boutique luthiery operation à la Anderson or Waghorn or something.

He's taken the next step.

K-SERIES-JK43

KIESEL GUITARS K7H, UNDEFINED, UNDEFINED STRING, UNDEFINED

www.kieselguitars.com

 

[Nobody]

He's taken the next step.

K-SERIES-JK43

KIESEL GUITARS K7H, UNDEFINED, UNDEFINED STRING, UNDEFINED

www.kieselguitars.com

How does a 25 thousand dollar guitar come with a soft case?

 

[Wucan]

He's taken the next step.

K-SERIES-JK43

KIESEL GUITARS K7H, UNDEFINED, UNDEFINED STRING, UNDEFINED

www.kieselguitars.com

That's 2 or 3 private stock PRSes right there

 

[somethingsomething]

Lol, well, someone bought it.

 

[spudmunkey]

How does a 25 thousand dollar guitar come with a soft case?

I'm sure if you called and asked, they'd throw in the upgrade to a hard case.

Lol, well, someone bought it.

I both am, and an not, surprised. Someone bought 'Merica', after all. There's a market for everthing. And at least Koa Angel was pretty.

 

[spudmunkey]

In the live today, someone asked about what made him change his mind on selling it.

He said he didn't really, the guys just asked what it might take, he said $25K, and then they would pit it up for a week. He said he had offers around $20k, but even at $25k wasn't even sure if he'd feel good about selling it because of the sentimental value, at least in part because it signifies the first guitar build from woods that were completely sourced/milled and completed all in their new (current) factory.

To be clear, someone didn't buy it.

 

[Wucan]

Ooh, just got a delivery notification. If all goes well, NGD Friday!