US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

[bostjan]

This is a dumb question, but how are younger people surviving if they are not working? Did they figure out a way to survive without food and water or something?

Regarding legalization of cannabis, didn't it take an awfully long time between the president admitting that he used the drug and the other president decriminalizing it at the federal level? Better late than never, I suppose.

The entire War on Drugs is stupid. I mean, coke is legal in Colombia, and they have a perfectly function society...

Err, umm, well, at least they aren't any worse off because of the drug laws. Anyway, drug use shouldn't be a problem to be solved with the same methods as dealing with murder or assault. I'm not going to condone drug use, but jailing drug users to reduce addiction in our communities is like locking up fat people in a donut factory to try to cut down on obesity.

 

[Crungy]

The never ending "war" that will always be lost, no matter the cost. I completely agree with your analogy, it doesn't address the root of the issue. People are always going to be addicted to something and they'll find it regardless.

 

[TedEH]

drug use shouldn't be a problem to be solved with the same methods as dealing with murder or assault

Maybe they should - to a point. By which I mean address their root causes rather than just punishing the offense. I've been under the impression that crime rates, regardless of what the crime is, tend to be higher in the presence of other societal problems. I'd be willing to bet that both cases of just spontaneous murder and cases of spontaneous substance abuse are less frequent than our punishment methods would suggest - like you don't murder people when you're happily cruising through life, nor do you feel a need to resort to vices to cope with a life that is great already.

Dunno why it makes me think of that old saying "happy wife, happy life", but instead - "happy life, happy... er, society?" I think you get what I'm going for.

 

[CanserDYI]

It's like the whole view on African Americans/Black people doing a disproportionate amount of crime, so it must be a racial trait. No. Poor people do a disproportionate amount of crime compared to their wealthy counterparts (petty crimes, mind you , but that's a different conversation). And who have we forced and oppressed into lesser and poorer economic situations for generations and generations? Who have we put laws and systems in place to keep in poverty and undereducated?

If you have, you have no reason to take. If you have, you have no reason to want. If you have, you have no reason to covet. And we have plenty.

 

[bostjan]

Maybe they should - to a point. By which I mean address their root causes rather than just punishing the offense. I've been under the impression that crime rates, regardless of what the crime is, tend to be higher in the presence of other societal problems. I'd be willing to bet that both cases of just spontaneous murder and cases of spontaneous substance abuse are less frequent than our punishment methods would suggest - like you don't murder people when you're happily cruising through life, nor do you feel a need to resort to vices to cope with a life that is great already.

Dunno why it makes me think of that old saying "happy wife, happy life", but instead - "happy life, happy... er, society?" I think you get what I'm going for.

Yes, I agree that addiction is a huge societal problem. What I disagree with is trying to pretend that locking them up with their dealers for a few months at a time is going to solve the problem.

Violence does indeed come from desperation and addiction leads to desperation. But locking up nonviolent people due to behaving in a way that statistically links them to a crime is a little too eugenic for me. Instead, it would be nice to hook them up with some sort of rehab program that gets them involved with positive, constructive activities that take their minds off of their addiction. Locking them up in a place where boredom is the name of the game isn't going to help, and locking them up together with other addicts and dealers is only going to establish more powerful drug supply networks.

40 years ago, I might have agreed with the tactics with enough convincing, but, now, we've tried it and seen how it worked out, and it's an abysmal failure. Drugs are a worse problem in the USA than they ever were before the War on Drugs. And that was fully apparent that such was our trajectory even back during Bush and the War on Terror. In general, declaring war on any abstract thing is just going to end worse than it started. We need to fight ideas with better ideas, not with brute force.

 

[Drew]

Maybe they should - to a point. By which I mean address their root causes rather than just punishing the offense. I've been under the impression that crime rates, regardless of what the crime is, tend to be higher in the presence of other societal problems. I'd be willing to bet that both cases of just spontaneous murder and cases of spontaneous substance abuse are less frequent than our punishment methods would suggest - like you don't murder people when you're happily cruising through life, nor do you feel a need to resort to vices to cope with a life that is great already.

Dunno why it makes me think of that old saying "happy wife, happy life", but instead - "happy life, happy... er, society?" I think you get what I'm going for.

Yeah, you're exactly right. No one wakes up one morning and says, "hmm, what a beautiful day... I think I'll become addicted to heroin." People turn to drugs because they're trying to escape something, be it a shitty living situation, stress and anxiety, chronic pain, etc.

It's belatedly occurring to me that drug probably got a fairer-than-typical depiction in Stranger Things, of all places, in season 4, when the cheerleader wanted moly, I think, because she thought it would help her escape from, well, what she thought was just a psychotic break, but actually turned out to be demonic possession. Still, the escape from something rather than just being a social degenerate.

 

[TedEH]

For the record, bostjan, I think we're on the same page. I don't think locking people up tends to solve any real problem other than when it's to take a real immediate / imminent threat out of the equation - which is never the case when you're talking about someone being locked up for having some weed on him.

 

[mmr007]

I say this as someone who has never done drugs...locking up anyone who does drugs is beyond stupid (if that is their only crime) therefore simple use of drugs should not be a crime. Consider...

If you apply for the FBI you can admit to using certain drugs and still get hired (no meth or heroin...cocaine is ok so long as no more than say 5 times and not within 5 years of the date of application yadda yadda etc etc) BUT...if you've ever been arrested for drug use, not only are you instantly disqualified, you are disqualified from most jobs including walmart. What fucking sense does that make? You can use drugs in the past and admit you used drugs in the past but if you got caught in the past? Well fuck off....run along now. So its the getting caught that is the disqualifier. Makes sense.

 

[CanserDYI]

I say this as someone who has never done drugs...locking up anyone who does drugs is beyond stupid (if that is their only crime) therefore simple use of drugs should not be a crime. Consider...

If you apply for the FBI you can admit to using certain drugs and still get hired (no meth or heroin...cocaine is ok so long as no more than say 5 times and not within 5 years of the date of application yadda yadda etc etc) BUT...if you've ever been arrested for drug use, not only are you instantly disqualified, you are disqualified from most jobs including walmart. What fucking sense does that make? You can use drugs in the past and admit you used drugs in the past but if you got caught in the past? Well fuck off....run along now. So its the getting caught that is the disqualifier. Makes sense.

It's the classic, "Drugs are bad and will ruin your life, so if we catch you with them, we're going to treat you badly and ruin your life."

 

[TedEH]

so if we catch you

I suppose the reality is swapping that "so" for "because".

you are disqualified from most jobs including walmart

Of course, working at a walmart might lead to to drugs just to help cope with working at a walmart.

 

[LordCashew]

No one wakes up one morning and says, "hmm, what a beautiful day... I think I'll become addicted to heroin."

Challenge accepted.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

Of course, working at a walmart might lead to to drugs just to help cope with working at a walmart.

The struggle is real. I've never worked at wal-mart, but working service industry with nothing to dull the edges is rough. I still tend bar part time, but it's a constant challenge being sober in that industry, especially when one of the unspoken perks (even at jobs that explicitly forbid it) is that you get to drink. My worst drinking has always coincided with shit jobs that have huge liquor stocks, no cameras, and no inventory control.

It almost became a point of principle, stealing product was a way of giving myself a raise as well as dealing with my depression and toxic work environments. Some of these places even caught me and gave me pretend-discipline talks but the truth was they needed me there worse than they needed me to not-steal a half rack of PBR every night, and they paid me so little it was a wash. As long as I wasn't getting caught they were happy to pretend it wasn't happening.

I never got into uppers thankfully, but the attitude there is the same. Yeah, the grill cook is a tweaker, but he does a great job keeping the tickets organized because he's on meth and will stick around long after closing scrubbing fryers as long as the voices keep telling him to. Until they inevitably burn out, management is happy to pretend it isn't happening. The amphetamine crisis is a secret boon to owners of shitty restaurants everywhere.

A lot of it makes for funny stories now, but I was in a bad place and fortunate to have lifted myself out of that to the extent I've been able to. I worked with a lot of dudes who are still sliding down that hole today and probably will be until they've got nothing left.

 

[Metaluna]

The never ending "war" that will always be lost, no matter the cost. I completely agree with your analogy, it doesn't address the root of the issue. People are always going to be addicted to something and they'll find it regardless.

drug wars always help create a thriving black market and more people end up taking the illegal drug. So, if you want to pump endless money into policing, with zero outcome (end steady corruption of cops) by all means declare a War On Drugs.

 

[vilk]

What an absolute unit of a crones douchebag.

Yeah, fucking d bag doing policy I agree with... And just for votes! Well guess what! I'm gonna vote for the other guy who doesn't enact policy I agree with!! Let's go Brandon!

 

[Metaluna]

Yeah, fucking d bag doing policy I agree with... And just for votes! Well guess what! I'm gonna vote for the other guy who doesn't enact policy I agree with!! Let's go Brandon!

Dark Brandon will see to it

 

[nightflameauto]

Dark Brandon will see to it

Now I see Biden with a mustache hangin' out with Dark Abed plotting the destruction of the other timelines. As long as they wipe out this one, I'll consider it a win.

 

[Metaluna]

Now I see Biden with a mustache hangin' out with Dark Abed plotting the destruction of the other timelines. As long as they wipe out this one, I'll consider it a win.

Ya know I voted Giant Meteorite in ‘16 and was massively disappointed. I think SM Sterling wrote a lot about wiping timelines, we should ask him how it’s done. In his novels from the Peshawar Lancers the evil russkies have a way to bring about the nothing.
check this poem by John Donne on similar theme. Very metal

A Nocturnal upon St. Lucy's Day​

BY JOHN DONNE
'Tis the year's midnight, and it is the day's,
Lucy's, who scarce seven hours herself unmasks;
The sun is spent, and now his flasks
Send forth light squibs, no constant rays;
The world's whole sap is sunk;
The general balm th' hydroptic earth hath drunk,
Whither, as to the bed's feet, life is shrunk,
Dead and interr'd; yet all these seem to laugh,
Compar'd with me, who am their epitaph.

Study me then, you who shall lovers be
At the next world, that is, at the next spring;
For I am every dead thing,
In whom Love wrought new alchemy.
For his art did express
A quintessence even from nothingness,
From dull privations, and lean emptiness;
He ruin'd me, and I am re-begot
Of absence, darkness, death: things which are not.

All others, from all things, draw all that's good,
Life, soul, form, spirit, whence they being have;
I, by Love's limbec, am the grave
Of all that's nothing. Oft a flood
Have we two wept, and so
Drown'd the whole world, us two; oft did we grow
To be two chaoses, when we did show
Care to aught else; and often absences
Withdrew our souls, and made us carcasses.

But I am by her death (which word wrongs her)
Of the first nothing the elixir grown;
Were I a man, that I were one
I needs must know; I should prefer,
If I were any beast,
Some ends, some means; yea plants, yea stones detest,
And love; all, all some properties invest;
If I an ordinary nothing were,
As shadow, a light and body must be here.

But I am none; nor will my sun renew.
You lovers, for whose sake the lesser sun
At this time to the Goat is run
To fetch new lust, and give it you,
Enjoy your summer all;
Since she enjoys her long night's festival,
Let me prepare towards her, and let me call
This hour her vigil, and her eve, since this
Both the year's, and the day's deep midnight is.

 

[Shoeless_jose]

For the record, zero people released from prison with this pardon, Biden also could have had the classification of it changed but instead is recommending a study to look into the possibility, literally he did nothing but blow hot air.

 

[spudmunkey]

For the record, zero people released from prison with this pardon, Biden also could have had the classification of it changed but instead is recommending a study to look into the possibility, literally he did nothing but blow hot air.

Under the Controlled Substance Act, no, the president can't reclassify it on his own, not even by Executive Order. All he can do is basically what he did, and appoint people to positions who support it.

What it does right now though, is now several thousand (but less than 10k, if I remember right) people no longer have a felony to report on their job or apartment applications.

 

[philkilla]

Yeah, fucking d bag doing policy I agree with... And just for votes! Well guess what! I'm gonna vote for the other guy who doesn't enact policy I agree with!! Let's go Brandon!