US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

[wheresthefbomb]

Good for her, the rest of us have to actively try to avoid contact with politicians

It's kinda like the whole trans folks in the military thing. I'm actually in favor of disallowing trans individuals from serving in the military, but only so long as we also disallow everyone else from serving in the military.

 

[CTID]

No matter how conservative you are, no matter how bigoted you are, no matter how much you hate those not like you... how in the world can you look in the mirror with any ounce of integrity or pride in your country and cast a vote for this complete shit stain of a human being?

This is a man that you trust?? This is a man that you feel is not completely lazy, incompetent, and malicious??? This ass-wipe wants nothing but revenge. You will never see one single benefit to you, or your family, or your neighborhood, or your stock portfolio under this completely self-serving criminal. Do you think he's a Christian like you? Do you think he has even an ounce of morality?

If you can't see this and if you have already made the decision to vote him back in... there is something very very wrong with your conscience and your heart and you are not the patriotic American that you claim to be.

you can't reason people out of positions they didn't reason themselves into. it's not because they think trump is the best option, it's because they know it's the option democrats hate the most.

it's pretty telling that every righty in here hasn't actually engaged in any meaningful debate in the past 50 pages or more. it's just random troll posts from people who don't actually want to engage, just stir the pot.

 

[StevenC]

It will get appealed. The man won’t get a fair trial in either NYC or D.C. and that fact should trouble you liberals.

Trump 2024: Maximum Chaos

You're right. In a fair trial he'd be in jail.

 

[Crungy]

you can't reason people out of positions they didn't reason themselves into. it's not because they think trump is the best option, it's because they know it's the option democrats hate the most.

it's pretty telling that every righty in here hasn't actually engaged in any meaningful debate in the past 50 pages or more. it's just random troll posts from people who don't actually want to engage, just stir the pot.

They're just too busy winning, amirite?!

 

[High Plains Drifter]

you can't reason people out of positions they didn't reason themselves into. it's not because they think trump is the best option, it's because they know it's the option democrats hate the most.

it's pretty telling that every righty in here hasn't actually engaged in any meaningful debate in the past 50 pages or more. it's just random troll posts from people who don't actually want to engage, just stir the pot.

Very much understood. And I'm not sure how at this late stage their anger and ignorance still baffles me. But it does... even as I accept their feelings of hatred, contempt, etc. I get that they see him as they see themselves in many regards but if you're just like him, then don't you also understand how directionless and negatively impactful your own leadership would be? He may be just like you but do you never learn or mature or reflect upon your own inadequacies and incompetence? How does that not wake you up??

No matter your personal agenda... your motivation to keep minorities away from you, to address border security, to own the libs, etc... this isn't a man that cares two shits about actually implementing any kind of game plan. Even if you can somehow justify the mental gymnastics that it takes to ignore, justify, or distrust all of the criminal/ felony charges that have been levied against him... how in the world do you still to this day believe that this is someone that you can legitimately support? Can you not simply see and hear in his actions and words how cowardly, selfish, inefficient, and nasty this man is?? Again... There is something fundamentally messed up in your head if you're going to continue to hitch your wagon to this monster... no matter your political affiliation nor your "values".

And not one republican out there can reverse or minimize or eliminate the diversified population that exists and will continue to exist in this country. You can dream all you want of a white, nationalist, conservative, christian society if that's your thing. But it ain't gonna happen... regardless of how any leader pacifies you or validates you on those concerns. You digging in your heels because of your roots or family values will never ever materialize into any actual actions that make your life better or more secure. You are living in a delusional fantasy world and in the process, actively destroying the democratic principles that are supposed to be the backbone of this country.

I sure as hell don't carry much if any faith or trust in our elected officials... no matter who's been at the helm. Washington is just that corrupt. But electing into office such a contemptible, destructive and vile human being is only going to undermine every aspect of this country's interests in diplomacy, humanity, and strength.

And I don't mean to come across so naive but I lost my best friend to this cultism around 2020 and it still hurts and astounds me. We were literally like brothers and although I never saw it coming until the final months, I know that he was lost, mentally and emotionally and desperately needing something to believe in or to be a part of. The final days were like trying to interact with someone that had been lobotomized or was strung out on drugs... similar to watching my mom slip away from reality and accountability due to alcoholism.

 

[profwoot]

you can't reason people out of positions they didn't reason themselves into.

I know this is a common phrase but it's always bothered me. I grew up with all sorts of crazy positions that I was able to be reasoned out of once I was old enough.

It's true (and scientifically demonstrated) that human consciousness is a thin veneer atop our primitive hardware. A human responds to stimuli by the same mechanisms as any other animal; the difference is we then have the capacity to justify those beliefs/actions after the fact, fooling ourselves into thinking we do things for rational reasons. This is why slapped-together incoherent nonsense is sufficient for wide swathes of humanity to believe dangerous and obviously false ideas -- it's all post hoc justification of unexamined lizard-brain impulses.

This is why it's so hard to reason someone out of anything, regardless of how they arrived at their current opinions -- but it can and does happen sometimes.

 

[CTID]

I know this is a common phrase but it's always bothered me. I grew up with all sorts of crazy positions that I was able to be reasoned out of once I was old enough.

It's true (and scientifically demonstrated) that human consciousness is a thin veneer atop our primitive hardware. A human responds to stimuli by the same mechanisms as any other animal; the difference is we then have the capacity to justify those beliefs/actions after the fact, fooling ourselves into thinking we do things for rational reasons. This is why slapped-together incoherent nonsense is sufficient for wide swathes of humanity to believe dangerous and obviously false ideas -- it's all post hoc justification of unexamined lizard-brain impulses.

This is why it's so hard to reason someone out of anything, regardless of how they arrived at their current opinions -- but it can and does happen sometimes.

Sure - I'm living proof of that myself. I grew up in an extremely conservative household in South Georgia and was definitely a lot further right-leaning when I graduated high school than I am now, at the age of 30.

But it still requires someone who is actually open and willing to listen to a point of view other than their own, and I'm not really seeing that here with philkilla's "i'm gonna really show these libs with my avatar" (lol), or whatever piss Glades/Darkstar decided to post this week.

Neither of these guys have even attempted any sort of dialogue, it's just one-liners thrown in here every now and then, treated as if they're some sort of "gotcha" slam dunks.

 

[StevenC]

I'm not really seeing that here with philkilla's "i'm gonna really show these libs with my avatar" (lol)

Dude is shadowboxing and losing

 

[DarkstarII]

I’m not here to convert you liberals — nothing I’m going to say will help you see the light (right? So pithy…).

I’m just here to raise your blood pressure and remind you I’m judging your idiocy.

 

[Big Dumb Bitch]

I’m not here to convert you liberals — nothing I’m going to say will help you see the light (right? So pithy…).

I’m just here to raise your blood pressure and remind you I’m judging your idiocy.

xDDDD I troll the libruls so hard lmao cuz im smart and they r stupid

 

[High Plains Drifter]

I’m not here to convert you liberals — nothing I’m going to say will help you see the light (right? So pithy…).

I’m just here to raise your blood pressure and remind you I’m judging your idiocy.

Surely you don't think that someone is a lib simply because they understand what a vile person someone is. And who even gets an elevated pulse from an unhinged cretin that is enamored by a criminal malcontent? An eye-roll, maybe.

 

[TedEH]

I’m just here to raise your blood pressure and remind you I’m judging your idiocy.

"I have nothing of value to contribute, so instead I'll be a shit disturber."
That's not the zinger you think it is.

Honestly, Veji's a better troll than any of y'all.

 

[crushingpetal]

it's pretty telling that every righty in here hasn't actually engaged in any meaningful debate in the past 50 pages or more. it's just random troll posts from people who don't actually want to engage, just stir the pot.

That's a good observation. I'll raise you one. Most of the GOP hasn't contributed to meaningful debate in a good 8 years or so. We used to have something like a contest of ideas (maybe). Or, at least, it used to be that the GOP stood for some set of principles.

 

[StevenC]

I’m not here to convert you liberals — nothing I’m going to say will help you see the light (right? So pithy…).

I’m just here to raise your blood pressure and remind you I’m judging your idiocy.

You should probably know that most people here aren't liberals. In fact, you might be closer to a liberal than a lot of people here.

 

[profwoot]

That's a good observation. I'll raise you one. Most of the GOP hasn't contributed to meaningful debate in a good 8 years or so. We used to have something like a contest of ideas (maybe). Or, it used to be that the GOP stood for some set of principles.

And granted they were also lying about standing for that set of principles, but it really was a different world back when Republicans pretended to stand for something and to care about policy. Even though all that pretense was frustrating at times, basic civility turns out to be a requirement of a functional congress.

 

[crushingpetal]

And granted they were also lying about standing for that set of principles, but it really was a different world back when Republicans pretended to stand for something and to care about policy. Even though all that pretense was frustrating at times, basic civility turns out to be a requirement of a functional congress.

An easy example is Texas. They'd claim "state's rights" vs. the federal government on the principle of local government. Then the state govt. would bully Austin claiming that cities can't decide for themselves. You don't have to be too smart to see through that shit.

 

[TedEH]

You should probably know that most people here aren't liberals.

I always assume that when someone is talking about "the libs", they're loosely talking about one of two things:

One being small-l liberals rather than big-L Liberals. As in, it's not The Liberals the political party, or Democrats or whatever else, or Liberalism the more-or-less defined political ideology, rather it's just pointed at the opposite of small-c conservatism. As in "the libs" are anyone who is vaguely liberal in their thinking - in the sense of being open to change, considerate of a wealth of ideas, taking liberally from the space of possibilities.

Or the more likely possibility that "the libs" is just the nom du jour to stand in for "the other team" - in the sense that I think a lot of people's mental model of politics is that there are really only two teams, the left and the right. Under this model, "the libs" and "democrats" and "marxists" and "socialists" and "activists" and "the left", etc. are all equivalent and interchangeable. I think this is why so many people mistakenly think that if you're not a fan of Trump, then you must be a big fan of Biden and Obama, because of course there are only two choices. (Or the Canadian equivalent, where conservatives and right wing nutjobs alike seem to think "the libs" are a fan of Justin Trudeau, which very many are not.)

 

[TheBlackBard]

I’m not here to convert you liberals — nothing I’m going to say will help you see the light (right? So pithy…).

I’m just here to raise your blood pressure and remind you I’m judging your idiocy.

This really is a testament to your lack of education as it comes to politics, thinking that a liberal is the end all be all of the other side.

 

[philkilla]

Sure - I'm living proof of that myself. I grew up in an extremely conservative household in South Georgia and was definitely a lot further right-leaning when I graduated high school than I am now, at the age of 30.

But it still requires someone who is actually open and willing to listen to a point of view other than their own, and I'm not really seeing that here with philkilla's "i'm gonna really show these libs with my avatar" (lol), or whatever piss Glades/Darkstar decided to post this week.

Neither of these guys have even attempted any sort of dialogue, it's just one-liners thrown in here every now and then, treated as if they're some sort of "gotcha" slam dunks.

I'm not trying to show anyone anything, it's just the most current version of POTUS we have, and we love him.

 

[PuckishGuitar]

An easy example is Texas. They'd claim "state's rights" vs. the federal government on the principle of local government. Then the state govt. would bully Austin claiming that cities can't decide for themselves. You don't have to be too smart to see through that shit.

In Texas the Republican logic is government works best at whatever level they have power at. State gov tells Feds and cities to fuck right off constantly, the State has supreme power. Red villages are constantly trying to limit the blue counties they’re in. It’s always their organization that is the right one, and it’s funny when you see them clash internally (school vouchers and Paxton impeachment as recent examples).

Generally I feel local governments best provide services to their communities, while the federal government best provides protections and defends rights of citizens. I think at this point we either need the federal government to reestablish supremacy in that role in major way (which means Congress needs to act, exercise for the reader to determine the likelihood), or abolish the concept of states as their individual fiefdoms ruling their citizens’ lives to various degrees. I can’t see in the long run how states currently can widely vary in how their citizens can live, and how the states interact with each other, without the ties eventually severing entirely. The states were the laboratories of democracy, now several of them are just making toxic garbage that’s running over.

The Water Knife has a good take on how states will act towards one another when the federal government fails to regulate them and defend the people. We’re already seeing places like Texas push on those boundaries.