US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

[spudmunkey]

While I don't disagree with the overal theme of "make sure you're aware of the big picture and newest data", with Bill, there's always something he says that makes me go, "wait...what was that again?" In this video it was the "Of the 30 countries that have universal health coverage, Canada spends over 13% of its economy on it."

To start, what exactly did the first part of that sentence have to do with the second? "Of the 30 best pizzas in the world, Canada spends $13." it doesn't make any sense.

Looking at the source material (No, not Yahoo! Finance), in his mention of access, Canada had 86% in 2023, 93% in 2016. The average of the top 10 countries was 93%. Where did the US fall, while spending 3x more per capita? 87%. The only reason the US might spend a lower % of overall economy on health care (it doesn't, but if it did) it would be because of the enormous military portion of the economy making other sectors seem proportionately smaller.

Yes, Canada was worst in regards to people getting a doctor appointment by the next day. Worst of the top 10. But most of the countries that beat it have what's called "embargo slots", which are held empty, and make people call in when they open, which does improve chances of being able to get a "same" or "next day" appointment, while pushing out the wait for traditionally scheduled appointments, and has the effect of juicing up the "next day access" numbers.

Of the 38 OECD nations, Canada spends more overall than most, but they also spend more on preventative while they spend the least on that top 10 list on Hospital services, with lower than average out-of-pocket costs.

Again, I'm not discounting the "look at the big picture", but also, "When looking at the big picture, you also can't focus on the parts you like best"...which was his point, but not his execution.

 

[narad]

While I don't disagree with the overal theme of "make sure you're aware of the big picture and newest data", with Bill, there's always something he says that makes me go, "wait...what was that again?" In this video it was the "Of the 30 countries that have universal health coverage, Canada spends over 13% of its economy on it."

To start, what exactly did the first part of that sentence have to do with the second? "Of the 30 best pizzas in the world, Canada spends $13." it doesn't make any sense.

Looking at the source material (No, not Yahoo! Finance), in his mention of access, Canada had 86% in 2023, 93% in 2016. The average of the top 10 countries was 93%. Where did the US fall, while spending 3x more per capita? 87%. The only reason the US might spend a lower % of overall economy on health care (it doesn't, but if it did) it would be because of the enormous military portion of the economy making other sectors seem proportionately smaller.

Yes, Canada was worst in regards to people getting a doctor appointment by the next day. Worst of the top 10. But most of the countries that beat it have what's called "embargo slots", which are held empty, and make people call in when they open, which does improve chances of being able to get a "same" or "next day" appointment, while pushing out the wait for traditionally scheduled appointments, and has the effect of juicing up the "next day access" numbers.

Of the 38 OECD nations, Canada spends more overall than most, but they also spend more on preventative while they spend the least on that top 10 list on Hospital services, with lower than average out-of-pocket costs.

Again, I'm not discounting the "look at the big picture", but also, "When looking at the big picture, you also can't focus on the parts you like best"...which was his point, but not his execution.

Yea, never, ever, ever trust Maher numbers at face value. He has a very disingenuous way of portraying information, especially in the new rules section. I have a clique of foreigners I rant and talk politics with - americans, french, germans, mexicans. Pretty much everyone is left of center, but when Maher was citing these racial issues being taught in school, so that 3rd graders or whatever are separated into racial groups and taught about white guilt and stuff like that, they think this a widespread thing. Then you dig into where these stories come from and it's always some outlier thing.

The guy with boobs above is a great example. Maher has been so fixated, I think they were mentioned on 3 separate episodes that come to mind. It would be so easy to say that this person is crazy and taking the piss out of it, and not the most representative person of trans issues. Instead he digs in like they're the end goal of the left trajectory. So I've lost a lot of respect and kind of treat him almost as a centrist Trump that loves pot and being treated as cool by black guests.

Gotta give his writers props on that "america adjacent" though

 

[Dumple Stilzkin]

I just wanted to chime in about theft on the retail level. Where I live it is not just people stealing food, one of the areas I frequent on my walks is littered with the safety seals meant to keep people from stealing bottles of hard alcohol. I also routinely deal with people stealing expensive items from my department costing as much as 67$ a piece. These are again not food items.

 

[TedEH]

As an actual Canadian, this Maher guy has no idea what he's talking about. Cherry picking stats that look bad don't make our healthcare some kind of hellscape. Are there long wait times for some things? Yeah, of course there are, but some dickbag TV pundit is never going to stop to interrogate the details. I live in a city with notoriously bad health services, and you'd still never go unseen in an actual priority case. Non-time sensitive attention is made to wait. I broke my foot and was seen in a couple hours. My ex cracked her head on some ice and was seen immediately. I told stories in the relationship thread about a whole saga involving a car accident, 7 fractures, a separated shoulder, etc., and it was honestly dealt with as well as I could have asked for, requiring specialist surgeons, etc. Even in a weird scenario a while back where we had no proper documentation because of a move between provinces, we were seen immediately and sorted out without having to pay anything, and were back at home the next morning. The things you wait for are non-critical and/or require specialists that are in short supply, same as it would be anywhere else. The one thing I've had to actually wait for is a personal family doctor, but not having a family doctor doesn't stop me from going to a walk-in or an ER.

But choosing between waiting more than a day for a doctor appointment, or just not going at all because I'd have to take out a mortgage, I'll take the day's wait.

"Canada didn't do it perfectly, so we shouldn't do it at all" is such a stupid argument for anything.

 

[USMarine75]

"Canada didn't do it perfectly, so we shouldn't do it at all" is such a stupid argument for anything.

When did Bill Maher say that?

 

[TedEH]

When did Bill Maher say that?

It's the underlying premise of the whole video. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's literally stated right at the outset of the video.

[...] new rule, if we want to save our country, we should follow the advice good liberals have given for decades and learn from other countries, especially those beacons of progressivism like Canada, England, and Scandinavia [...]

Then proceeds to cherry pick every lazy criticism of those places he can find as proof that "good liberals" are failures and nobody should listen to them.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Maher is an abelist Islamophobe who is skeptical of vaccines and panders to the worst sort of pseudo libertarian.

 

[Glades]

Maher is an abelist Islamophobe who is skeptical of vaccines and panders to the worst sort of pseudo libertarian.

Bill Maher has been anti-religion since forever. Not just Islam.

I obviously don’t agree with most things Maher has to say. But I can appreciate that he’s been one of the few political commentators that has remained pretty consistent in his views since the 90s. One of the few remaining Carlin-type classical liberals. He’s not out there pandering to the extremists for views or money like everyone else.

 

[Big Dumb Bitch]

The biggest issue with Bill Maher is that he's not remotely funny lol

 

[Glades]

The biggest issue with Bill Maher is that he's not remotely funny lol

The biggest issue with Bill Maher is that he’s not as smart as he thinks he is.

 

[synrgy]

Maher's key issue for me is that he didn't learn from his predecessors' failure to evolve, and became Old Man Yells At Cloud. See also: Dennis Miller. Time remains undefeated.

He had a peak, somewhere around Bush/Cheney's first term (IIRC), but he became intolerable pretty rapidly thereafter. What lengthened his show's run was whomever was booking the panel guests; often interesting mixtures having interesting conversations -- whenever Bill can keep his mouth shut long enough to let that happen.

Bang, Mary, Kill?

Maher vs Rogan vs Peterson, and... Go!

 

[Randy]

Maher's key issue for me is that he didn't learn from his predecessors' failure to evolve, and became Old Man Yells At Cloud. See also: Dennis Miller.

The big issue with a lot of those old comedian types is that "Me Too" put the fear of God into them that the world was gonna crash down on them for every non-PC joke they told 30 years ago, so they all became "anti-woke" Libertarians overnight. And I've got my issues with "cancel culture" but letting the fear of being Cosby'd or Louis CK'd turn you into a crotchy old man is an embarrassing evolution.

Maher's rap on vaccine's is less noble body autonomy, more "wah, I didn't like when they told me I couldn't go to the club and I had to wear a mask" so he inherited a bunch of problematic shit as an overreaction. He did the same thing when he overreacted to college kids not wanting alt-right scum being hosted at campus speaking events, so he decided to let them on his show instead.

Maher a guy who's exceptional at not being able to see the world past the end of his own nose.

 

[StevenC]

It's the underlying premise of the whole video. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's literally stated right at the outset of the video.

Then proceeds to cherry pick every lazy criticism of those places he can find as proof that "good liberals" are failures and nobody should listen to them.

"Good liberals... England" is a fascinating choice for someone who is supposedly paying attention to politics. Bill Maher should not be allowed on TV.

 

[Big Dumb Bitch]

Idaho is a shithole and I wish I didn't live right next to it

Supreme Court allows Idaho to enforce its ban on gender-affirming care for transgender youth

The Supreme Court is allowing Idaho to enforce its ban on gender-affirming care for transgender youth while lawsuits over the law proceed, reversing lower courts.

apnews.com

 

[TheBlackBard]

Bill Maher has been anti-religion since forever. Not just Islam.

I obviously don’t agree with most things Maher has to say. But I can appreciate that he’s been one of the few political commentators that has remained pretty consistent in his views since the 90s. One of the few remaining Carlin-type classical liberals. He’s not out there pandering to the extremists for views or money like everyone else.

Difference is, Carlin didn't punch down.

 

[spudmunkey]

Nvrmnd

 

[StevenC]

Bill Maher has been anti-religion since forever. Not just Islam.

I obviously don’t agree with most things Maher has to say. But I can appreciate that he’s been one of the few political commentators that has remained pretty consistent in his views since the 90s. One of the few remaining Carlin-type classical liberals. He’s not out there pandering to the extremists for views or money like everyone else.

I love every time Glades uses a phrase like "classical liberal" as if he knows what that means.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I love every time Glades uses a phrase like "classical liberal" as if he knows what that means.

I'm not sure who or what he knows less about: Maher, Carlin, or being a "classical liberal."

 

[Drew]

While I don't disagree with the overal theme of "make sure you're aware of the big picture and newest data", with Bill, there's always something he says that makes me go, "wait...what was that again?" In this video it was the "Of the 30 countries that have universal health coverage, Canada spends over 13% of its economy on it."

To start, what exactly did the first part of that sentence have to do with the second? "Of the 30 best pizzas in the world, Canada spends $13." it doesn't make any sense.

I think it actually does make sense, but doesn't make the point he thinks it does.

Basically, "how much does it cost for Canada to provide universal health care, measured by what's the expense as a proportion of total national income?" That's not a bad way to measure how "expensive" health care is for a country - Canada is able to acheive universal health care by spending 13% of national income on healthcare.

The problem for Maher is, in the US we do NOT have nationally-administered universal health care, we have a hodge-podge of public and private coverage and a lot of out-of-pocket spending... and we as a nation STILL spend 17.3% of GDP on healthcare.

So the real question here isn't why Canada spends so much. It's why we get so little for spending so much more.

 

[TedEH]

Whenever I see those kinds of comparisons, I can't help but think that when your population is 10x ours, and divided and administrated in a completely different (and I think more complicated) way, that has to have a major impact on how the spending has to work, making any 1-to-1 numbers comparison difficult to draw meaningful value from.