Your weekly Whitehouse update

[GuitaristOfHell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iXpbDmiGq-s

I am not Barak Obama but I support this (and him) 100%. A little fruit for thought guys.

 

[The Atomic Ass]

Sounds like a god-damned salesman. Which is all he really is.

 

[GuitaristOfHell]

Sounds like a god-damned salesman. Which is all he really is.

I do approve of the affordable healthcare act though.

 

[glpg80]

I do approve of the affordable healthcare act though.

I agree everyone should have healthcare but that is a moral ideal and a personal choice. I disagree with the "tax" that they keep referring to as a penalty even though the supreme court upheld the taxation support.

Basically it makes healthcare available for the poor at the expense of raising everyone elses already current healthcare programs when the poor couldn't afford it or didn't want it in the first place and employer's do not want to support the added costs. No one wins.

 

[estabon37]

I agree everyone should have healthcare but that is a moral ideal and a personal choice. I disagree with the "tax" that they keep referring to as a penalty even though the supreme court upheld the taxation support.

Basically it makes healthcare available for the poor at the expense of raising everyone elses already current healthcare programs when the poor couldn't afford it or didn't want it in the first place and employer's do not want to support the added costs. No one wins.

It doesn't have to be a moral ideal, you could just move to Canada, England, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, The Netherlands, Japan, South Korea ... deep breath ... Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Israel, Germany, France, Belgium, Austria or Switzerland. All of which have either universal or near-universal health care. Everybody wins.

And just for anyone who sees Greece on the list and says "Yeah, and look what socialised health care did to their economy!", please look to Australia and notice that we came out of the 2010 financial crisis pretty much unscathed. In fact, in 2011 a friend of mine had a nasty fall and decimated her elbow. Many, many staples, screws, plates, stitches and surgeries later, it has cost her and her family ... nothing. Not a single cent. She and her husband didn't have to work extra hours, and their children didn't have to miss out on anything. Oh, and neither they nor I have ever had to contribute to the health care levy because none of us has ever earned enough money to be considered health care taxable.

Why is "tax" considered a dirty word in some parts of the world? I've paid a fair bit of tax in past years, and been fine with it because I knew that in the future I might need the services that this money provides. Tax isn't money you give away to others, it's money you invest in your own future.

 

[Mprinsje]

sounds like a massive tool.

 

[Michael T]

Personally im open to any program that will help people that cannot get/afford health insurance.

Ive worked hard my whole life since I was 16. This past december my factory closed down so now im unemployed & without insurance for the first time in my life. Finding a job that pays close to what I was making has been damn near impossible. I've had ACL replacement on both knees, 3 knee surgeries, arthritis in my knees back and right hand. Ive been paying full price for all my dr visits & medications since my insurance expired which is around $130 for a normal dr visit, almost $200 for a specialist and some of my medications run between $50-$100.

I recently swallowed my pride and decided to apply for a medical card and where im not married or have any biological kids I wasn't even allowed to apply.....so apparently ive worked my ass off, broke my body down in the process, made my contributions to working class society but do not qualify for any financial medical assistance even though I'm unemployed. I feel betrayed by the system.

In a nutshell im down with any programs that could potentially assist anyone in my situation.

 

[synrgy]

Why is "tax" considered a dirty word in some parts of the world?

In a picture:

The more I watch idealists fight against any establishment of a system which might actually help their fellow countrymen (whilst still claiming to be patriotic), the more I'm thankful that my beautiful bride happens to be a Canuck..

 

[AxeHappy]

I honestly can't consider any country that doesn't provide all of it's citizen's with healthcare to be a first world country.

The US needs to get it's ....ing shit together.

 

[wannabguitarist]

Not fan of the Affordable Care Act (note; this does not mean I don't think we shouldn't all have health insurance) but I can't disagree with him. The constant gridlock pushed by the Republicans is ....ing ridiculous . Obamacare is a start, but it has a long way to go before it can be considered a solution.

Why is "tax" considered a dirty word in some parts of the world? I've paid a fair bit of tax in past years, and been fine with it because I knew that in the future I might need the services that this money provides. Tax isn't money you give away to others, it's money you invest in your own future.

Meh I know I would be getting better returns after retirement if I had the oppurtunity to invest the money I'm having to spend on social security taxes in a Roth IRA instead. Taxes are a necessary evil of a functional society (nothing is truly free) but it's never fun to work your ass off and see a significant chunk of your paycheck disappear. Especially when you could put that money to better use for yourself (the tax bill on my last paycheck could have paid for a month of groceries, or gas+car insurance, or a significant deposit into my retirement account, etc; and that was just from one of 4 checks).

 

[Murmel]

^
It seems there are few ways of getting together a nice pension while still having free, or relatively free, health-care.
I know that pensions are a huge topic of discussion where I live, and most people seem very un-happy with what they're getting. Some barely getting by.

My English, or Swedish ( ) for that matter, isn't good enough to discuss any of this in an intelligent fashion. But having everything in a perfect balance (health-care, pensions, law enforcement, insert-pretty-much-anything) seems almost impossible.

If I had to choose I'd probably pick the Swedish communist, über socialist system with an almost 50% income tax that we got over the American way. Even if it means I got far less money in my pocket at the end of the month.

 

[wannabguitarist]

^
It seems there are few ways of getting together a nice pension while still having free, or relatively free, health-care.
I know that pensions are a huge topic of discussion where I live, and most people seem very un-happy with what they're getting. Some barely getting by.

My English, or Swedish ( ) for that matter, isn't good enough to discuss any of this in an intelligent fashion. But having everything in a perfect balance (health-care, pensions, law enforcement, insert-pretty-much-anything) seems almost impossible.

If I had to choose I'd probably pick the Swedish communist, über socialist system with an almost 50% income tax that we got over the American way. Even if it means I got far less money in my pocket at the end of the month.

Your English is fine

I wasn't trying to say to you have to choose between health care and pensions/retirement funds; just saying that I can more efficiently invest in my own retirement than the government can with the money I lose every month from social security taxes. On the healthcare front, I can't compete

Finding that balance is impossible because poeple's needs constantly change throughout their life times. I'm not a fan of "forcing" anyone to pay or do something for the sake of society as collective but regardless of what I believe reality doesn't exist in a vacuum and sometimes these things have to be done.

I love the idea of everyone in the United States having access affordable health care but some of the effects of the mandate on employers are actually quite harmful and I've found that most small business owners I've dealt with through work are extremely confused by the lack of information on how the law may or may not affect them.

My personal premiums and co-pays went up too so I'm not exactly happy about that .

 

[SevenStringSam]

its gonna make me one happy little panda to watch this all crumble :3

 

[synrgy]

I'm of the mind that 'affordable' is only the tip of the iceberg.

My (Canadian) father in law had a heart attack and resulting surgery, and all he had to pay for was parking. Had it happened to my (American) father, he'd be out of pocket for tens-of-thousands of dollars, if not more, *after* insurance.

 

[Murmel]

Your English is fine

I wasn't trying to say to you have to choose between health care and pensions/retirement funds; just saying that I can more efficiently invest in my own retirement than the government can with the money I lose every month from social security taxes. On the healthcare front, I can't compete

Finding that balance is impossible because poeple's needs constantly change throughout their life times. I'm not a fan of "forcing" anyone to pay or do something for the sake of society as collective but regardless of what I believe reality doesn't exist in a vacuum and sometimes these things have to be done.

I love the idea of everyone in the United States having access affordable health care but some of the effects of the mandate on employers are actually quite harmful and I've found that most small business owners I've dealt with through work are extremely confused by the lack of information on how the law may or may not affect them.

My personal premiums and co-pays went up too so I'm not exactly happy about that .

I know that my English is fine. I'm just not good enough with words to express what I'm trying to say properly, not even in my native tongue. It showed itself pretty well because you misunderstood my post a bit. Not blaming you

What I'm trying to say is something along the lines of:

- I want free health-care, great pensions and be able to run my own company without ridiculous taxes and being forced to pay for something I don't want/need.
- Sorry, that's not going to happen. You can only pick 2.

Having a utopian society for both capitalists as well as more left-leaning individuals seems far out of reach. If doable at all.

 

[wannabguitarist]

its gonna make me one happy little panda to watch this all crumble :3

Watch what crumble? Our current healthcare system? Obamacare? The US?

I know that my English is fine. I'm just not good enough with words to express what I'm trying to say properly, not even in my native tongue. It showed itself pretty well because you misunderstood my post a bit. Not blaming you

What I'm trying to say is something along the lines of:

- I want free health-care, great pensions and be able to run my own company without ridiculous taxes and being forced to pay for something I don't want/need.
- Sorry, that's not going to happen. You can only pick 2.

Having a utopian society for both capitalists as well as more left-leaning individuals seems far out of reach. If doable at all.

Got it

I've of the mindset that while the US healthcare system needs a major overhaul we probably will never have a totally "free" system due to the size and diversity of the country. There is no reason for healthcare to cost as much as it does or for families to go bankrupt, but I don't see why (or how) healthcare should be free. It's not cheap to provide

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

I honestly can't consider any country that doesn't provide all of it's citizen's with healthcare to be a first world country.

The US needs to get it's ....ing shit together.

Ooh, I get to be "that guy!"

Your idea of what it actually means to be a first world country is off. All a first world country is is a country that has a capitalistic free-market economy and was allied with the US during the Cold War, as opposed to second world countries, which are socialist countries with planned economies that were allied with the Soviet Union during the Cold War, or third world countries, which were developing countries that were allied with neither.

Of course, you could also go by a more modern definition, which determines whether or not a country is first world by looking at its Human Development Index, and guess what? The US is first world by those standards, too. The US is a first world country by pretty much every international standard available, except perhaps the AxeHappy International Does It Have As Much Healthcare As I Personally Deem To Be Appropriate Index (or the AHIDIHAMHAIPDTBAI, for... erm... short).

For the record, I absolutely agree that the US needs a healthcare system like the ones some Europeans and Canadians have, or even like South Korea, though it doesn't come close to being as affordable as what I'm reading about for Canadians and Europeans in this thread (I had two knee reconstruction surgeries and myriad lab tests/x-rays/MRIs and some physical therapy, and though it cost me more than parking, the $3-4k I paid is still MUCH less than it'd have been in the US).

I think the US' lack of universal healthcare is its largest flaw. Larger than gun violence, ridiculous divisive two-party politics, the decreasing middle class, increasing wage gap, or any of the other things people like to throw around when slagging the US, and I have the damndest time trying to justify the fact that we don't have it.

I've watched my sister, who has a debilitating genetic kidney disorder, severe asthma, and allergies to damned near everything rack up mountains of medical debt over the years, and that was even with health insurance at her jobs, since she always hit the annual cap so quickly. She actually sold a screenplay to Sony Pictures for $80k, then had to turn around and drop all of that on her medical debt, and that didn't even cut it in half. Now she can't hold a job because she's too weak to work most days because of her treatment (chemo and plasmapheresis off and on), and companies that are understanding about having to miss that much work are uncommon, so she can't get insurance to help with her still-growing debt (health problems don't go away just because of unemployment, after all). When people say universal healthcare is bad, they're telling me that the slow, painful, prohibitively costly death of my sister and anyone else in the world like her is good.

Ugh. tl;dr: I really wish the US had universal health care, but it's still a First World country despite not having it.

 

[narad]

Breaking news, Narad adopts the AHIDIHAMHAIPDTBAI as a crucial component in his search for which country he should settle down in permanently.

As to HDI, having just spent 2 years in Australia and seeing it land as #2 on that index (behind Norway, in case you were curious) has me extremely skeptical. If I'm bouncing back between 2 of the top 3 countries in the world and this is the best it gets, I'm going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[The Reverend]

I know that Obamacare (I'm taking the word back from Fox!) will stumble, but the bottom line is that America needed some kind of reform to its healthcare system. No one wanted to touch it when I was a kid in the mid 90s and shoulder-pad Hillary Clinton was down with it. Granted, a lot of of issues came up between then and now, but Obamacare was the only thing that got far enough to enact some change.

We can always go back and nix the things that don't work with it, but the point is that we committed to fixing our healthcare system.

 

[BlindingLight7]