As a guitarist thinking of picking up bass...

[Whiskey_Funeral]

I've played guitar for about 9-10 years and I feel like I've reached somewhat of a plateau. I've always been more of a rhythm player, though I can play some pretty technical stuff. I'm just not big on constructing melodies and if I can say anything good about my playing (albeit, at the cost of sounding cocky) I'm like a human metronome. I play a lot, but I'm really not into recording at home or anything like that at the moment and I'm really all about just playing with other people and having fun. I think that being able to play bass would make it a lot easier for me to find a spot in a band because guitarists are everywhere. I thought of drums, but I really don't have the space to start those and I'd be evicted pretty quick - so bass seems like the logical conclusion for me. For what it's worth, I'm into fast, brutal grind/death metal: Carcass (old), Dying Fetus, Pig Destroyer, Gorguts, Cryptopsy (old), etc., so I want to know...
What are some of the biggest misconceptions/challenges I'll need to face when taking up this instrument? I know pretty much nothing about bass technique or equipment. Are there any tidbits of knowledge you guys have gained from your experiences that you think might be valuable to me? What sort of bass to look for, how to pick an amp, good practice habits/techniques, or even how to view the fundamentals of bass vs. my years of guitar playing?

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I'd say the biggest misconceptions are A) the bass is just like a guitar, just bigger and tuned lower, and that B) the bass is completely different than guitar. While that may seem contradictory, it's really how it is. It's kinda hard to explain, but the more you get into playing bass you'll see what I mean.

A few pointers though:

1) Solid State is your friend. While in the guitar world tubes are king, most professional bass rigs are based around high wattage Solid State power sections, with the occasional tube preamps.

2) Strings are a whole new ballpark when dealing with bass strings/scales vs. guitar strings/scales. It'll take some getting used to the different string types, and how much they effect tone. If you're going to be tuning really low, I highly recommend Stainless Steel strings that are taper wound.

3) Always go light weight when you can. Bass gear, and basses themselves, can get really heavy really fast. While guitar rigs typically aren't feather weights either, just try lugging an 8x10 and SVT around.

4) Take your time to work with both fingers and pick style playing. There is no "right" or "wrong", but you can give your playing all kinds of dynamics if you learn to treat both methods as equals early on.

As for gear to look for right now, look for a solid bass amp with around 500 Solid State watts if you plan on gigging. The "standard" bass cab, analogous to the 412 for guitar, is the 410, so getting one of those will more than likely work out best for your first bass rig. As for the bass, it's like choosing a guitar, look at what specs you want, and go from there.

 

[Whiskey_Funeral]

Wow! Thanks, Max! That's immensely helpful. The thing about bass being just a bigger, lower tuned guitar vs. being completely different than guitar kind of makes sense and I expect that it will make more sense as time goes on.

As far as fingers/picks, how would you say that..I dunno, differs? I'm having a really hard time thinking of questions for that because I really don't know what I'm talking about. I don't have huge spider fingers like a lot of bassists that I see on YouTube and whatnot so I feel kind of intimidated by trying to learn finger style bass.
What are the main differences between the two styles and how would each fit into different genres of music? Are there specific bands/bassists that might be helpful for me to check out to get a good understanding of each technique?

Again, thanks so much!

 

[Andii]

One thing that burns most bassists down is tone. Guitar tone is looked at carefully and honed in carefully. Bassists get something big and popular and go with that. To add to a band you have to fit in the mix of things. Doing that is all about tone. Most people use the bass as background noise to make a recording sound more full rather than taking advantage of it's full potential.

Here's some stuff about bass amplification:
-Don't buy a cab unless the magnets are neodymium. A 100lb cab with ceramic speakers is a weak cab, a 100lb neo cab is a monstrous powerhouse. In bass gear neo is used to get insane performance rather than weight reduction. A 4x10 neo cab usually reaches into lower freaquncies like the 20's while a ceramic cab stops in the 40's. The wattage rating on a 100lb neo cab will be multiple times that of a ceramic one.
-HF driver. I shouldn't have to say but some of the best selling stuff out there is missing one third of the sound.
-You need something with a strong preamp. The strongest I've heard are: Gallien Krueger RB and fusion, Mesa powerhouse and mesa 400+. They are very strongly voiced meaning they turn the signal from your bass into something incredible instead of just shooting it out of the speakers. The 400+ is the only all tube one out of the bunch. It sounds good(think primus), but the power section is 16 6l6s(cha-ching). That makes it impractical for most. The Galliens and powerhouses are both great amps. The fusion and powerhouse use Tube preamps paired with a solid state power section.
-Mesa bass cabs are pretty much the best there are on the market. They are neo and heavyweight. They are clear and destroy worlds. I recommend Mesa's bass cabs even when you choose a GK amp.
-Don't get carried away with the active EQ on your bass. If you have a strong preamp, it shouldn't be all that necessary to do something extreme. Mids are your friend too.
-Behold he power of using a guitar amp and a bass amp at the same time. Fundamental lows and rich clarity paired with a guitar circuit to add an octave to the guitars will bring a tear to your eye. Not many people are doing this right now, but I want to hear more of it. Good examples of this concept are Human Beansauce, Behold the Arctopus, Dysrhythmia and Beneath the Massacre's album Dystopia.

 

[Soubi7string]

-Behold he power of using a guitar amp and a bass amp at the same time. Fundamental lows and rich clarity paired with a guitar circuit to add an octave to the guitars will bring a tear to your eye. Not many people are doing this right now, but I want to hear more of it. Good examples of this concept are Human Beansauce, Behold the Arctopus, Dysrhythmia and Beneath the Massacre's album Dystopia.

How do you set that up?
Just guitar amp head into bass cab?

I just got my entire first set up today as well.it's a carvin r600 with a 1x15 it does the job and gets me the sound I want and I got me this 5 string Ibanez and it has active pups in it it honestly makes a big difference.if the pups are active they are clear and more versatile.the standard passive is well..lacking imo.they're warm, good for sabbath but other than that I cand really think of anything else than that fact :/
And finger technique is kinda like just rolling a rhythm when you tap your fingers on your right that is and the left well if you played guitar it's like playin a heavy duty acoustic action and tension.your arms and hands will get tired and sore real quick but it all builds up.
Be sure to pick an amp you'll be happy with cause bass is a hell of a lot more expensive than guitar a pack of strings is 20$ and up if that gives you any idea

 

[Andii]

How do you set that up?
Just guitar amp head into bass cab?

No. You run a guitar amp and cab running a high gain sound and a bass amp and cab running a clean bass sound. Or alternatively models of those things on a digital unit. There are a lot of ways to split your signal. You can do anything from using an active DI to putting a separate jack on your bass for each pickup. On a digital unit splitting your signal isn't necessary.

 

[xtrustisyoursx]

-You need something with a strong preamp. The strongest I've heard are: Gallien Krueger RB and fusion, Mesa powerhouse and mesa 400+. They are very strongly voiced meaning they turn the signal from your bass into something incredible instead of just shooting it out of the speakers. The 400+ is the only all tube one out of the bunch. It sounds good(think primus), but the power section is 16 6l6s(cha-ching). That makes it impractical for most. The Galliens and powerhouses are both great amps. The fusion and powerhouse use Tube preamps paired with a solid state power section.
-Mesa bass cabs are pretty much the best there are on the market. They are neo and heavyweight. They are clear and destroy worlds. I recommend Mesa's bass cabs even when you choose a GK amp.

These are very shortsighted statments. There are plenty of companies such as mark bass, shroeder, thunderfunk, epifany, avatar, and trace elliot that make cabs and amps that are every bit as good as the ones you listed. I know alot of people here (nashville) even just go to gigs with a sansamp bass driver and run direct.

 

[Andii]

These are very shortsighted statments. There are plenty of companies such as mark bass, shroeder, thunderfunk, epifany, avatar, and trace elliot that make cabs and amps that are every bit as good as the ones you listed. I know alot of people here (nashville) even just go to gigs with a sansamp bass driver and run direct.

Those statements aren't short sighted at all. There is a lot other good stuff out there, but bassists should use amps with a strong preamp. Yes there are a lot of people who use all kinds of things. There is a reason why bass is almost always in the background to the point where it's almost muted too.

Why don't you(or anyone else) get a guitar sansamp and just use that instead of your amp? Because it doesn't sound good. The sansamp bassdriver doesn't cut it. It doesn't offer much advantage over just using a direct box with no tone circuitry at all in it. The preamp is pretty weak.

The haphazard approach with bass stuff is why the instrument isn't often used to it's potential even in todays modern music with all the technology available to us.



I think Ampeg JUST started making neo cabs.They aren't high power and don't extend as low as they should. Ampeg makes a lot of cabs with no HF driver too. That works for some styles but I've seen many people be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong thing and be inaudible.

There are a lot of preamps available to pair with power sections as well.

Bassists that can be heard(this includes some stuff not previously mentioned):
Viraemia-Mesa 400+ paired with PJB cab
Tool-GK and Mesa heads paired with Mesa cabs and Demeter pres live
Jeff Hughell (ex Braindrill currently of Reciprocal)- GK RB head and cab
Jeroen Paul Thesseling of Obscura- Jonas Helllborg pre


The main point of all this:
Modern bassists need to be taking advantage of what is available and be heard. Now is a great time to be a musician. The bass guitar is a wonderful instrument that I want to hear more of rather than experience as clanky background noise or rumble.

 

[Deadnightshade]

if the pups are active they are clear and more versatile.the standard passive is well..lacking imo.they're warm, good for sabbath but other than that I cand really think of anything else than that fact :/

Believe me passive EMGs kill in the right bass...However if you have to deal with a budget or mid priced bass,yes active pups do a lot

 

[Soubi7string]

I'm not much of an EMG fan so I wouldn't know I'm thinkin of swapping my basses actives with some Seymour Duncan bassline actives

 

[punisher911]

To quote Andii.. "mids are your friend".. I couldn't agree more. I love deep boomy bass... until you have a drummer and a guitar player.. DON'T scoop the mids. Take a chance, bump them UP a bit... see how it cuts through.. awesome... My only advice, as a guitar player going bass.. Think of it as a bass. Don't be a frustrated rhythm guitar player. Write BASS lines.... Less is more.. all that goodness. When a bass player doubles a guitar line, if he stops, the people think the guitar player's amp fudged up, when a real bass player drops out of a song, everyone notices something is missing.....

 

[All_¥our_Bass]

A) the bass is just like a guitar, just bigger and tuned lower

From a construction standpoint that's actually true (body+neck+strings+pups, switches, etc.), but what he's getting at is how the instrument is used.

I do completely agree that bass is often just used to make music sound thicker, fuller, and I despise when the bass is mixed to sound like it's part of the guitar and not it's own thing.

Also, mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids mids

Like desu, you can't possibly have enough of it.

 

[MistaMarko]

I agree with Andii about the amp/cab selection, and I felt much better because I actually have a GK RB head and a GK Neo cab, and the tone is RIDICULOUS, and the cab isn't heavy at all. So, big +1000 to that.

- You can get away with a scooped sound in the studio if you're into that thing, since everything is in nicely-tempered rooms and all these plugins and editing control these days makes it possible. Live, or at practice? You'll be swallowed by the low-end of the guitars and especially the kick drum. I'm not one for the "high-mids" sound (around 1K), but I'm a firm believer that low-mids act as a "bass sound" but don't carry along the "wash the mix out" side effects, so keep your mids boosted around 500Hz or so. Don't think that because you play "bass" that you need to boost the "bass".

- Get used to paying $30 or more dollars for a set of strings, and say goodbye to the days of picking up three packs of strings for under $15. It sucks, believe me.

- This is completely my opinion, but I think you'll adapt better to the entire experience/mindset of bass playing if you go finger-style only. If you come from being a guitarist for 10 years as you say and pick up a bass and use a pick, you're just going to sound like a guitarist with a bass and try to play guitar things. I see it all the time. Finger-style is much more versatile in my opinion, and don't let anyone tell you that finger-style won't cut through the mix in metal, because that's bullshit. It's all about your EQ and technique.

- There's something rewarding about playing bass. Sometimes when playing with a group I'll just quit playing for about 2 seconds, and then start playing again, and realize how much I'm adding to the sound and how much "foundation" my instrument brings to the table. It's a good feeling.

- You have a lot more "freedom" in your parts, even when playing in a band with precisely-written music. A guitarist can't really get away with a random fill or run, or a random octave or something thrown in. You can.

And don't get me wrong with any of this, I also was a guitarist before a bassist. I prefer bass any day.

 

[Konfyouzd]

I'd say the biggest misconceptions are A) the bass is just like a guitar, just bigger and tuned lower, and that B) the bass is completely different than guitar. While that may seem contradictory, it's really how it is. It's kinda hard to explain, but the more you get into playing bass you'll see what I mean.

They're not contradictory if you don't view them as mutually exclusive (I think that's the proper terminology )

I picked up bass about 2 years ago (I've been playing guitar for about 13 or 13 years now) and I never really got in the habit of playing my bass like a guitar simply because of the techniques I chose...

I absolutely HATE the way it feels to use a pick on a bass so that helped. And I can't stand fingerpicking on guitar so this helped me to put a little day light between the two. The mechanics I related the alternating pattern of index/middle finger when plucking to the alternating up/down strokes in alternate picking.

But things like slapping I learned entirely on bass although they can be performed on a guitar as well.

There are also techniques like tapping that I use on both guitar and bass.

The point is, though... If you learn what each instrument's "role" is in a particular musical instance you shouldn't have to worry about whether you're "playing one like the other" only that they make beautiful music together.

@OP - If you're like a human metronome, I'd say bass is a good call. It's all about timing. And yes, when ppl find out you play bass as well as guitar they're a little more likely to pick you up assuming they think you fit the bill.

 

[josh pelican]

I'd say the biggest misconceptions are A) the bass is just like a guitar, just bigger and tuned lower, and that B) the bass is completely different than guitar. While that may seem contradictory, it's really how it is. It's kinda hard to explain, but the more you get into playing bass you'll see what I mean.

I think the biggest misconception is the asenine heard so often, "Pfft, bass is easy. Anyone can play bass."

 

[Konfyouzd]

I think the biggest misconception is the asenine heard so often, "Pfft, bass is easy. Anyone can play bass."

Or... It's boring...

Jaco Pastorius anyone? ... Or Stu Hamm...? (I didn't wanna go w/ the obvious Victor Wooten )

Most ppl that say that either listen to music where the bass is mixed down to the point that you hardly notice it unless you're sitting on a subwoofer OR the bass parts in the song just follow the guitar part root note for root note and are, in fact, boring.

 

[josh pelican]

Or... It's boring...

Jaco Pastorius anyone? ... Or Stu Hamm...? (I didn't wanna go w/ the obvious Victor Wooten )

Most ppl that say that either listen to music where the bass is mixed down to the point that you hardly notice it unless you're sitting on a subwoofer OR the bass parts in the song just follow the guitar part root note for root note and are, in fact, boring.

"Why bother playing bass? No one is going to hear it..."

 

[Konfyouzd]

Someone actually said that?

 

[MaxOfMetal]

"Why bother playing bass? No one is going to hear it..."

The sad thing is, after years of listening to extreme metal, I can see that that statement can hold true on numerous occasions.

 

[synrgy]

The sad thing is, after years of listening to extreme metal, I can that that statement can hold true on numerous occasions.

No doubt. Far too many metal bass players either A) get buried in the mix completely or B) have a 'tone' dialed in that DOESN'T ACTUALLY HAVE ANY BASS IN IT. (Think the 'click-click-click, click-click,click, click-click-click' bass sound from Metallica's 'Enter Sandman'..)

A life-long friend of mine plays in a (I dunno what they consider themselves) metal band called "High Five For Suicide". For the longest time they had no bass player, and their shows just sounded like a big wall of white noise. Then for a little while they had a bass player and it was like the fucking sky opened up and finally let their riffs come through the wall of noise. Why? Cause the bass player (who's no longer with the band unfortunately) had an awesome tone that provided the low frequency groove, but also the *perfect* middle ground of low-mids and mids to sit between the 2 guitar players who were essentially mid/treble city.

*edit* PS -- Just do it. Playing more than one instrument is the bee's knees.