Fallout 76

[TedEH]

^ Either that, or people, games and situations are dynamic and opinions are bound to differ. I mean... we have a whole thread about how people have differing opinions.

Clearly, not having a hate-boner for all the video games is internetting wrong.

 

[PunkBillCarson]

^Clearly putting words into people's mouths is the way to debate.

If you're not having problems or the misfortune everyone else is having, good on you, but to simply act like nothing is wrong with the game or the business practices of the ones who developed it is asinine. That's like saying "well I ain't never been beat up by police, so it must not be a problem."

 

[Xaios]

to simply act like nothing is wrong with the game or the business practices of the ones who developed it is asinine. That's like saying "well I ain't never been beat up by police, so it must not be a problem."

Yes, because that's clearly what's going on, as evidenced by the following:

for example, their initial response to Bag-gate was utterly indefensible

which I'll grant that the game should be protected against, so that's a strike against Bethesda

_________
Hmm, it's almost like when you say:

^Clearly putting words into people's mouths is the way to debate.

...you're not actually being sarcastic.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Yeah, I've never said the game doesn't have problems, or that Bethesda hasn't handled things poorly. I just said I'm still enjoying it, despite the internet's insistence that I shouldn't because it's objectively bad.

It's definitely a flawed experience, but so far for me the positives outweigh the negatives. I won't make any excuses for the flaws it has or for the way Bethesda has dealt with (or not dealt with) them, but sometimes I do feel like I must be playing a completely different game, given all the vitriol I see directed towards it.

 

[PunkBillCarson]

You can enjoy whatever you like. If you find some sort of joy playing the game, good on you. Myself, I always expect Bethesda games to have bugs. It's a Bethesda thing at this point. Just for everything that's happened in AND out of the game, it's hard for me to feel Bethesda can be defended from anything and for me personally, when an entity like Bethesda is just this clueless about their product and goes a step further in treating their fanbase like toddlers, that's just too far for me. I'm not going to bag on someone for enjoying the game, it just seems like with Bethesda and Blizzard lately, there's been a certain level of defense here who lets things get way too out of hand before they start decrying the actions of these developers, and that just doesn't sit right with me. In my mind, these sorts of transgressions should be rubbed in THAT MUCH FURTHER to ensure that bullshit like this doesn't happen again.

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

It just seems like with Bethesda and Blizzard lately, there's been a certain level of defense here who lets things get way too out of hand before they start decrying the actions of these developers, and that just doesn't sit right with me. In my mind, these sorts of transgressions should be rubbed in THAT MUCH FURTHER to ensure that bullshit like this doesn't happen again.

Can't speak for others but for me personally, I don't like letting other incidents bleed into other incidents. If you do X, I only want to chastise you for X, not X and Y because Y really pissed me off a couple weeks ago. Obviously context varies and sometimes shit happens, but usually that's my motto. So when someone does something dumb, I want to be very firm with them about that particular incident and handle it then. Especially in larger scale cases like this because I don't want to make specific people feel attacked for something that they likely had no control over.

The point where our viewpoints converge is when people consistently screw up and the time has come to just cut the cord. Which is what I've done; I actually landed there before 76 came out. After seeing Fallout 4 I decided I was done giving Bethesda my money. I figure they care a lot more about the $60 a year they aren't getting from me than they do about my honest to god opinion. Obviously 'vote with your wallet' has issues, but it's better for the already-dangerously-high levels of general rage I just carry around with me on a daily basis.

Like the latest episode in the Blizzard trainwreck. Now they're making you tie your account with your Twitch account if you want to properly use the site. I was absolutely livid at first but then I remembered that this was exactly the type of Facebook-esque bullshit that caused me to drop their entire platform after over a decade of support. It literally doesn't affect me and stressing out about it is only going to turn me into an even more tightly wound individual than I already am, and the world isn't ready for that

--
Just as a post-edit subnote as well; I know the "move on" approach outlined here may not be as efficient for prompting change from a company; but personally, after a company goes as far as these guys do, I wouldn't trust them afterwards anyway. I know they still have the same personnel making the same decisions, this type of thing was clearly what they wanted, and there's just going to be more garbage down the line. Feels like an "I'm sorry for getting caught" more than a genuine "I'm sorry" kind of thing, you know?

 

[Xaios]

After seeing Fallout 4 I decided I was done giving Bethesda my money.

This really illustrates that what a person is willing to tolerate is also dictated largely by personal preference. For myself, I actually hated Fallout 3, so even during the previews for Fallout 4, I was only cautiously optimistic because I liked what they were showing in the previews, but I also liked the previews for Fallout 3. When I actually played Fallout 3, I was very disappointed, especially as someone who had been looking forward to it for a long time, given that I played Fallout 1 and 2 back in 2000. I also wasn't really that big on Skyrim either in the end, not nearly as much as other people were. But lo and behold, I ended up loving Fallout 4. As such, I also love FO76. Ultimately this means that I likely have a higher threshold for Bethesda "getting crap past the radar" that I'm willing to tolerate. As I've stated repeatedly at this point, no, I don't support every decision they've made from a business standpoint, and the game is ultimately flawed technically. However, the kernel of it is something I really enjoy, and that enjoyment ultimately trumps whatever issues I do have with it.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

the memes about fallout 76's fallout are gold:

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

Hah, those are fantastic.
I miss Obsidian's Fallout. New Vegas was dope.

 

[PunkBillCarson]

I normally don't indulge myself in looking at memes (mostly because people use stupid language like "dank" in association with them) but those are pretty damn nice.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Apologies in advance to people who saw the thread bump and expected more hilarious anti-76 memes.

People complain a lot about how annoying the scotchbeasts are, especially at low levels. It's a valid complaint, of course. They're irritating as hell, with that seemingly infinite ranged attack they constantly spam, or their apparent unwillingness to land so melee users can have a go.

However, I've found one consequence of that is that once I finally became powerful enough to take them down without breaking all my gear and/or using all my chems, I actually started actively seeking them out so I could destroy them. I used to NOPE the hell out of there any time I saw one on the horizon, or heard the FLAP FLAP FLAP of one approaching. Now, I'm like "WHERE IS THE BASTARD, BRING IT ON." Their behavior definitely caused me to develop a grudge, and I'm out for blood.

On that note, speccing into all levels of the various shotgunner perks + skeetshooter + enforcer is OP af. Want to take out scorchbeasts, deathclaws, behemoths, or mirelurk queens? Cripple them. Just... cripple the sh!t out of them.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Ugh. In the interest of fairness, I'll step back from the cheerleading and detail the "gaming" experience I had yesterday:

1) The first time I start it up, I get the "your camp cannot be placed" message. No biggie, I'll just exit to the menu and jump back in. Server hopping to the rescue!

2) Second start-up: After the loading screen, I hear the sound of my camp loading in, but then immediately disconnect from the server and get booted back to the menu.

3) Third start-up: "Your camp cannot be placed." Server hop.

4) Fourth start-up: "Your camp cannot be placed." Server hop.

5) Fifth start-up: Camp placed! No disconnect! Let's do this!

I make my way to the location of the next quest objective, the Wendigo Cave. Upon entering, I discover that a high-level player has been through recently, because the enemies are still scaled to someone much higher level than me. I was lvl 18, and coming across lvl 50 Mirelurk Kings and lvl 60 feral ghouls. I'm a trooper, so I tried to fight my way to the objective anyway. Fruitlessly, it turns out: The Mirelurk King wiped the floor with me. I choose to spawn back outside the cave, but now all the loot I dropped is back inside the cave with the high-level baddies. Rather than risk it again, I opted to sacrifice the precious black titanium scrap I dropped, and logged out for another server hop. That would hopefully reset the levels of the enemies in the cave. Log out, server hop.

6) 6th start-up: "Your camp cannot be placed." Server hop.

7) 7th start-up: Camp placed successfully, I find myself outside the Wendigo Cave. However, I notice that there's no quest objective marker on my compass. I check my journal, and the entire quest had been reset to the first objective. Two hours of quest progress from the day before, gone. This not being the first time a quest objective has bugged out on me, I decide to try a refresh / server hop. That usually sorts things out.

8) 8th start-up: "Your camp cannot be placed." Server hop.

9) 9th start-up: Camp placed, back outside the Wendigo Cave, still no new quest objective. Looks like I get to do the previous objectives over again. The closest to a silver lining about that is that, because I had already done the goddamned objectives, I already have the fast travel locations closest to them marked and available for use. That sped things up a bit, but didn't mitigate my frustration all that much.

I make my way to the mine for the first objective, and again find the location has recently been visited by a higher level player, because I was was swamped by lvl 40+ enemies, who swarmed and promptly killed my lvl 18 ass. Not wanting to abandon my loot this time, I said screw server hopping and decided to just run past everything, get my stuff, and hope to be able to beat the final boss of the mine despite the level difference. Turns out dying and re-entering the mine reset at least part of it, though, because after fighting a few lvl 40 idiots, I got to the final boss (a named Glowing One), and he was only lvl 22. Nice.

The next few checkpoints pass without major incident, including finally making my way through the Wendigo Cave and killing a lvl 32 Wendigo (the mirelurks and ghouls had reset to be more level-appropriate, thankfully). I make it to the final portion of the quest, fight my way through a (once again over-leveled) ski lodge, and then...

...disconnected from server.

10) 10th start-up: "Your camp cannot be placed." Server hop.

11) 11th start-up: "Your camp cannot be placed." Server hop.

12) 12th start-up: Camp placed. Loot stored. gear repaired. I head back through the (now appropriately leveled) ski lodge, get to the final objective marker, pick up the piece of tech I've been working towards finding for two days now, and...

...the quest objective doesn't update. It still says "Retrieve the blablabla," and still has a floating quest marker on the shelf that previously contained the piece of tech that is now in my f*cking inventory.

Logged out, didn't server hop, closed the bethesda launcher, went and watched netflix for the rest of the evening.


It was probably the most infuriating gaming experience I've ever had. I've cried "hyperbole!" at all the people shouting "objectively bad!" or "literally unplayable!" about this game, but last night was probably as close as a game can come to being literally unplayable, while still remaining playable. Barely.

Later that night there was supposed to be a new patch released, and it'd better be a f*cking good one, because I do not want a repeat performance of last night. I had experienced disconnects, camp placement issues, and quest progress bugs before, but never so many times in one gaming session, and never a quest objective reset quite as severe as that one. That sh!t cannot keep happening.

It sucks even more because, when the game decides it does want to run properly, it's still a genuinely fun experience. I love exploring. I love crafting, and finding new loot. I even like having to fight or sneak my way through an over-leveled area, because it keeps me on the edge of my seat. If Bethesda can just get their shit together and learn how to properly run their servers and fix the coding for some super obvious sh!t, they'd have a real gem on their hands.

EDIT: To clarify, "your camp cannot be placed" is not a bug or a glitch. When you build a camp structure in game, it isn't permanent. When you log out, it disappears. That means that while you're gone, someone might end up building in the same place. When you log in again, if the spot your camp was in is occupied in the server in which you're placed, you get the message about being unable to place your camp. You're then allowed to place it somewhere else for free (relocating usually costs caps), or you can log out and try again in the hopes that you'll be placed in a server where your camp spot is available.

What'd be nice, of course, is if the game could search for a server where your camp spot is available BEFORE logging you in, rather than loading you in to a random one and telling you it's unavailable. The current system is still better than the previous "lol ur camp is scrapped" solution, though.

 

[cwhitey2]

...

Thank you for sharing all of that.

I will not be even thinking of buying that game now.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Thank you for sharing all of that.

I will not be even thinking of buying that game now.

I'd say if you had some interest in it previously, then rather than just declare you'll never buy it, wait a while instead. I still hope Bethesda will fix all the bullshit and we'll all have an awesome game to play. Until you've heard that that major, game-breaking problems are taken care of, though, nope. I can't recommend buying this game in its current state.

 

[cwhitey2]

I'd say if you had some interest in it previously, then rather than just declare you'll never buy it, wait a while instead. I still hope Bethesda will fix all the bullshit and we'll all have an awesome game to play. Until you've heard that that major, game-breaking problems are taken care of, though, nope. I can't recommend buying this game in its current state.

To be fair i was going to Elder scrolls online at some point.... guess what i still don't have even after they didn't charge you to play...

Im sick of games not being finished and company's selling them. Like seriously...fuck those company's.

Ps. I LOVE Bethesda games.

 

[PunkBillCarson]

To be fair i was going to Elder scrolls online at some point.... guess what i still don't have even after they didn't charge you to play...

Im sick of games not being finished and company's selling them. Like seriously...fuck those company's.

Ps. I LOVE Bethesda games.

But those poor people's feelings, you heartless bastard!!! Pay the 60, make them feel great about accomplishing a half assed thing for a full assed pay check.

 

[TedEH]

But those poor people's feelings, you heartless bastard!!! Pay the 60, make them feel great about accomplishing a half assed thing for a full assed pay check.

On some level I feel like this comment was written just for me.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

That sounds like such a headache.

Im sick of games not being finished and company's selling them. Like seriously...fuck those company's..

Apart from Fallout 1 they've always been massively bug ridden unfinished games but FO76 just took it too far. This time fans weren't as accepting.

 

[PunkBillCarson]

On some level I feel like this comment was written just for me.

 

[Xaios]

Apart from Fallout 1 they've always been massively bug ridden unfinished games but FO76 just took it too far. This time fans weren't as accepting.

This is the truth. Fallout 2 is my favorite Fallout game personally, and it has several game-breaking bugs that were never fixed. I also love New Vegas, but the frequency of corrupted-save and stuck-terrain bugs in that game is absolutely infuriating. I know I've probably been one of the lucky ones with regards to Fallout 76 and the bug experience, but the honest truth is I've encountered fewer bugs myself in Fallout 76 than I have in Fallout New Vegas. People have turned a blind eye to the absolutely terrible technical development of that game for 8 years now simply because it's an Obsidian title, or rather because it's not a Bethesda title. Obsidian may have great writers (or, at least we'll see if they still do given that a bunch of their best talent, including Avellone, walked out the door) and game designers, but their technical side is every bit as bad as Bethesda's.