US Political Discussion: Biden/Harris Edition (Rules in OP)

[narad]

I remember one of the big talking points when she was announced being that she spent her whole career putting people in jail for marijuana offenses and now she was flip-flopping to get on the Biden campaign, which advocates for legalization. They both feel like political snakes to me - it's Biden's fault the student loan situation is this bad in the first place.

I'm not a fan of our current white house. It is still better than Donnie "Putin please attack our NATO allies" Trump

Just maybe some hyperbole there. I don't think Biden is personally behind the pervasive university administration bloat and culture that shames people who take non-traditional life paths. Since the US never had European-style heavily outcome-based repayment and forgiveness plans on the table, the more systemic pressures that raise costs and push young people to take such an unreasonable gamble (and which often involves a mix of government and private loans) are more to blame for US student loan debt than a couple people voting on a bill here or there.

 

[MetalDestroyer]

Just maybe some hyperbole there. I don't think Biden is personally behind the pervasive university administration bloat and culture that shames people who take non-traditional life paths. Since the US never had European-style heavily outcome-based repayment and forgiveness plans on the table, the more systemic pressures that raise costs and push young people to take such an unreasonable gamble (and which often involves a mix of government and private loans) are more to blame for US student loan debt than a couple people voting on a bill here or there.

I'm basing my assertion on the belief (I'm not an economist obviously) that the non-dischargeability of student loans through bankruptcy incentivised more loans to go out, resulting in the positive feedback loop of more risk-free money -> more cost. It also had the positive effect of allowing more students to get a post-secondary education. Unfortunately it was not capped and has grown exponentially to where we are today. Biden was a spearhead of the bill that made student loans non-dischargeable in the event of bankruptcy.

If you don't believe that that factor plays a major role in the student loan crisis, then I'm sure you have a different feeling about Biden's student loan efforts

 

[narad]

I'm basing my assertion on the belief (I'm not an economist obviously) that the non-dischargeability of student loans through bankruptcy incentivised more loans to go out, resulting in the positive feedback loop of more risk-free money -> more cost. It also had the positive effect of allowing more students to get a post-secondary education. Unfortunately it was not capped and has grown exponentially to where we are today. Biden was a spearhead of the bill that made student loans non-dischargeable in the event of bankruptcy.

If you don't believe that that factor plays a major role in the student loan crisis, then I'm sure you have a different feeling about Biden's student loan efforts

Are you referring to the 2005 bill?

 

[MetalDestroyer]

Are you referring to the 2005 bill?

I thought it was done in the 90's, but maybe I'm not educated enough to have an opinion on this subject

 

[narad]

I thought it was done in the 90's, but maybe I'm not educated enough to have an opinion on this subject

I think if you're using the term "spearhead", you'd have to be referring to the 2005 bill, for which he was one of the more vocal democrat supporters. Though I think spearhead is still hyperbole for a republican proposal and if you look at the votes, it's 74/25/1 on a 1/2 majority in a republican majority house and senate -- it's not Biden who gets that pushed through.

Stepping back from Biden himself, if you want to put it all on the 2005 bill, then we should be able to look at the years preceding the bill and see a much brighter situation. But if you look at the tuition costs adjusted for inflation, you see a long and constant increase in costs leading up to 2005, and which only continue at a predictable trend in the years that followed. So I would contend that it's still the demand for college that is the primarily motivator in cost (and which is itself the primary motivator for all the administration and "perk" spending to lure more/more profitable students, which is another huge component of rising costs in the past 15 years in particular).

Of course loans and loan availability is ultimately the cause of student debt, in the same way that easily accessible food is the cause of obesity. But it's not the heart of the problem. And loan availability is also the only means for low income students who are otherwise risky and without collateral to even attend nicer schools (financial aid aside). So if you reign that in, there are other consequences.

Personally the pushes the current Biden administration has made for student loan reform, not even talking about the forgiveness, are the most significant and helpful changes to US student loans probably since their inception. I'm not up to date on which of these plans have been regulated out of existence, and the actual reforms were often overlooked in light of the "free money!" forgiveness excitement and criticism, but in spirit it was very UK-ish, which is a very good thing and definitely something I wish I had available to me when I was tossing my paychecks at my 8.9% APR loans when the annual interest was basically as high as my annual take-home.

 

[Randy]

I remember one of the big talking points when she was announced being that she spent her whole career putting people in jail for marijuana offenses and now she was flip-flopping to get on the Biden campaign, which advocates for legalization. They both feel like political snakes to me - it's Biden's fault the student loan situation is this bad in the first place.

Also a lot of stories about Kamala using status as bigshot in CA to get backstage and rub elbows with bigshot entertainers, sloppy off her ass drunk and high. Credible accounts that to this day she's in a constant fog of pills or edibles.

So it's less about "putting people in jail for stuff she's legalizing now", it's more about her jailing people for shit she was doing at the exact same time.

She's also a fuckin PR nightmare. I won't go digging right now but article a couple days ago that she had an appointment with Arab American rights groups, and they held a pre-meeting teleconference in preparation that she botched so bad they ended up cancelling their meetings with her.

 

[USMarine75]

F RFK Jr.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/12/politics/rfk-jr-apologizes-cousins-super-bowl-ad/index.html

UPDATE... he can stay F'd.

 

[Randy]

 

[USMarine75]

Stewart / Raskin 2028

 

[JSKrev]

Disgusting. Jesus fucking christ the gop is so fucked.

If there were a requirement for a three-digit IQ to serve in Congress, we'd be rid of MTG and a few others. I blame social media for creating a stage for these idiots.

 

[Drew]

"I think that the question that you have to confront is why a single state should decide who gets to be president of the United States...what's a state doing deciding who other citizens get to vote for for president?" -Justice Elena Kagan

Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson questioned whether the office of the presidency can be disqualified under the 14th Amendment.

Chief Justice John Roberts said that if the Colorado decision is upheld, other states could kick other candidates from the ballot.

"It'll come down to just a handful of states that are going to decide the presidential election," he said. "That's a pretty daunting consequence."

Justice Samuel Alito said that states reaching their own conclusions could create an "unmanageable situation."

Supreme Court appears skeptical of Colorado booting Trump from ballot (axios.com)

Honestly, these are all valid questions...

..but the CO decision really has two seperate, only loosely related, questions in it. These answer the first - is Colorado within their rights to remove a candidate from the primary ballot for federal office?

But, they don't really get at the larger question - can anyone be barred from the presidency for engaging in insurrection, and if so how and under what conditions?

They can rule narrowly on the first... but that just kicks the can down the road, because as soon as Trump clinches the nomination, the second question will begin to be litigated, whether he's even eligible for the presidency at all. And given how long this first question has taken, it's entirely possible that even if cases were filed in June, we would't have a decision before January 19th or whatever it is this year, when he's due to be sworn in. And they know that, so I think they kind oif have to address at least the general outline of how the second question would be handled - would Trump need a conviction, an act of Congress, or is the amendment self-executing?

I think Trump knows this, and is trying to get ahead of, well, a few things, but this definitely being one of them, by trying to have the trial on his role in Jan 6th delayed until after the campaign, because if he's found guilty there he has far fewer legal arguments to address the question of his eligibility under the 14th Section 3.

 

[Drew]

I'm basing my assertion on the belief (I'm not an economist obviously) that the non-dischargeability of student loans through bankruptcy incentivised more loans to go out, resulting in the positive feedback loop of more risk-free money -> more cost. It also had the positive effect of allowing more students to get a post-secondary education. Unfortunately it was not capped and has grown exponentially to where we are today. Biden was a spearhead of the bill that made student loans non-dischargeable in the event of bankruptcy.

If you don't believe that that factor plays a major role in the student loan crisis, then I'm sure you have a different feeling about Biden's student loan efforts

I'll be honest, I saw your claim that Biden made this worse and immediately thought it was bullshit, but I thought you meant President Biden and not Senator Biden.

Senator Biden...? This is VERY complex. And I think (as do you) the good needs to be evaluated with the bad - a student graduating with uncollateralized loans and then immediately declaring bankruptcy is a very bad outcome for a lender, since they have essentially no recourse (you can't seize a degree in the same way you can a house or car, and sell them to help cover your losses). This bill allowed college students who would not otherwise be able to afford college tuition either on a cash basis or by being approved for a more "conventional" loan to afford college.

But on some level you kind of have to question the logic of making these loans bankruptcy remote, but then still offering them at a hefty spread to the risk-free rate for that particular tenor. That's not a really sensible scenario, and it certainly gives lenders the incentive to issue pretty freely.

I think there are other factors in play - the american attitude that a college degree, ANY degree, is a "ticket to middle class wealth," the arms race colleges have engaged in, investing in expensive facilities and student perks to attract students based on quality of life (which in part is because student loans are easy to get), etc... But yeah, as a general rule of thumb, if you increase the amount of leverage someone is able to use to buy something, over time you increase that thing's price.

 

[USMarine75]

 

[Glades]

Opposition leader gets prosecuted and jailed for criticism of the state’s corruption and embedded power, charged with extremism. Why does this sound familiar?

 

[USMarine75]

Opposition leader gets prosecuted and jailed for criticism of the state’s corruption and embedded power, charged with extremism. Why does this sound familiar?

Glad we finally agree that the Biden witch hunt is ridiculous.

 

[philkilla]

Glad we finally agree that the Biden witch hunt is ridiculous.

You better be careful. That's the most qualified person in the US to be president right now.

 

[USMarine75]

You better be careful. That's the most qualified person in the US to be president right now.

You're right. We've got an old man who rails at clouds, has memory problems, slurs his words, and utters nonsense.

Then there's Biden.

This is definitely the 2008 Sun Bowl of College Football (google it) and not the Rose Bowl. But given only these two, I'll take the guy that doesn't want to be a dictator, doesn't cozy up to dictators, and has actually and effectively passed legislation during his tenure.

 

[MFB]

Opposition leader gets prosecuted and jailed for criticism of the state’s corruption and embedded power, charged with extremism. Why does this sound familiar?

Remember when the thinly-veiled Trump analogy you're making was in power, and still failed to undo any of the state corruption and embedded power he literally campaigned on eliminating (AKA "DRAIN THE SWAMP") and dare I say, emboldened folks to actually make it worse?

Oh right...

 

[Big Dumb Bitch]

Georgia Senator Vows to Protect Girl, But Then Runs Away After Learning She Is Trans

During a visit to lobby legislators on transgender issues, Senator Carden Summers (R) knelt down and told a child he would protect her. When he learned she was trans, he backed away.

www.erininthemorning.com

this is like an onion article lol

 

[Drew]

Opposition leader gets prosecuted and jailed for criticism of the state’s corruption and embedded power, charged with extremism. Why does this sound familiar?

...because Trump has been perfectly clear that's what he plans to do to Biden if he's re-elected?

Or did you mean Trump, and thought fraud, money laundering, campaign finance violations, inciting an insurrection, and what Georgia calls "solicitation of election fraud" was a fancy way of saying "criticizing the state"?

I mean, seriously, it's fucking hilarious. Being prosecuted isn't some sort of proof you're "right," and are like being silenced for "speaking truth to power" or whatever nonsense Trump will have his donors believe. Trump broke a whole SHITLOAD of laws, before, during, and after he was in office, and they're finally catching up with him. You honestly think he should not be prosecuted for breaking the law, just because he's running for President? That whole immunity argument got laughed out of the courts.

Grow up.