Abasi Concepts/Larada Megathread

[Randy]

The brand seems cursed. It almost doesn't matter who builds them.

As stated in here some time back, the design is a workflow nightmare. Each subsequent revision seems to become more assembly-line ready, but things like the contoured and two tone headstock add another few steps from what a typical guitar (think Telecaster) require in the build/finish process.

The more things that have to be done after the guitar leaves the mill and anything that has to be done by hand (like taping the paint lines for headstock) are another chance for imperfections, multiplied by how many of them there are on the guitar, then multiplied by how many they make in an hour/day/week.

Cool af guitars, I want one, but it's not something I'd expect to pull off in volume without regular blems etc.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

As stated in here some time back, the design is a workflow nightmare. Each subsequent revision seems to become more assembly-line ready, but things like the contoured and two tone headstock add another few steps from what a typical guitar (think Telecaster) require in the build/finish process.

The more things that have to be done after the guitar leaves the mill and anything that has to be done by hand (like taping the paint lines for headstock) are another chance for imperfections, multiplied by how many of them there are on the guitar, then multiplied by how many they make in an hour/day/week.

Cool af guitars, I want one, but it's not something I'd expect to pull off in volume without regular blems etc.

Eh, it's not like this is some small time builder, it's one of the top five guitar OEMs in world.

It just seems like there's very little QC being done after everything is shipped over. If there is, they're either getting a mountain of bad ones that we're not seeing, or it's more like the Rondo Music school of QC: "hey, is it the right color? Yeah, then ship it".

I don't think this is a manufacturer issue per se. About every step of the way "management" has shown how unprepared they are for running a guitar brand.

We've kinda hit Hanlon's razor here.

 

[MrWulf]

honestly i'm struggle to think why would you want to buy an Abasi at this point. It is not going to give you Tosin's thumping ability and technical skill but who am I kidding

 

[Jack McGoldrick]

Remember that Gibson video where they drove over a bunch of guitars with a digger? Yeah that’s what I’m waiting for

 

[Randy]

Eh, it's not like this is some small time builder, it's one of the top five guitar OEMs in world.

It just seems like there's very little QC being done after everything is shipped over. If there is, they're either getting a mountain of bad ones that we're not seeing, or it's more like the Rondo Music school of QC: "hey, is it the right color? Yeah, than ship it".

I don't think this is a manufacturer issue per se. About every step of the way "management" has shown how unprepared they are for running a guitar brand.

We've kinda hit Hanlon's razor here.

Oh agreed, I'm just saying that if you're going to be spotty on QC, the more steps in the build process the more winkles you're gonna have. The Rondo comparison is apt, the simpler guitars in their range are more consistent, the features you tack on, the uglier they get. I've literally never put my hands on a Douglas Scope that was even playable, but the ALs and tele copies are pretty consistent.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Oh agreed, I'm just saying that if you're going to be spotty on QC, the more steps in the build process the more winkles you're gonna have. The Rondo comparison is apt, the simpler guitars in their range are more consistent, the features you tack on, the ugliest they get. I've literally never put my hands on a Douglas Scope that was even playable, but the ALs and tele copies are pretty consistent.

I just don't see a lot about these that are overly complex, even the headstock, and the problems all look like stuff that's rushed and sloppy vs. genuinely difficult to pull off.

It looks like they're all just mishandled at some point. It would explain the headstock finish issues and various digs, dings, and gouges.

 

[Randy]

Ah, I didn't consider that.

 

[kisielk]

honestly i'm struggle to think why would you want to buy an Abasi at this point. It is not going to give you Tosin's thumping ability and technical skill but who am I kidding

From an ergonomics and visual perspective it’s really appealing, there’s just a lot of good ideas in the design that are put together by someone with a lot of playing experience. If they can achieve good execution I would totally get one.

I’m not even aware of another brand that does the similar narrow spaced 8 string designs, and there’s not a lot to choose from in non-strat shapes in the first place.

 

[jyym]

What is the actual nut width and string spacing?

 

[BlackMastodon]

Oh agreed, I'm just saying that if you're going to be spotty on QC, the more steps in the build process the more winkles you're gonna have. The Rondo comparison is apt, the simpler guitars in their range are more consistent, the features you tack on, the uglier they get. I've literally never put my hands on a Douglas Scope that was even playable, but the ALs and tele copies are pretty consistent.

I wonder if the added complexity of these builds means they can't do bigger batches, and then suddenly a huge chunk or even the majority of them would be considered "unsaleable" by normal standards so they lower the QC bar to allow cosmetic issues so long as they're playable just to be able to meet some of the demand. /tinfoilhat

 

[cip 123]

I wonder if the added complexity of these builds means they can't do bigger batches, and then suddenly a huge chunk or even the majority of them would be considered "unsaleable" by normal standards so they lower the QC bar to allow cosmetic issues so long as they're playable just to be able to meet some of the demand. /tinfoilhat

More likely they don’t have the capital to do bigger runs so opt for the smaller “exclusive drops” but they probably don’t have the margins to send guitars back this we end up where we are

 

[HellaSickTight]

More likely they don’t have the capital to do bigger runs so opt for the smaller “exclusive drops” but they probably don’t have the margins to send guitars back this we end up where we are

I think it’s exactly this. I feel like Tosin lost a lot of money on the falbo endeavor, and this latest batch cost under half a million dollars not counting R&D and business operations, or so if you do some loose math. Like that’s a lot of money! I can totally see how they don’t have the resources to be sending back 1/3 of their instruments at this stage in their growth. I Honestly can’t see 33% of the AAL money funding this in its entirety for very long, they must have raised VC from somewhere else, I feel like that’s what Ivan brought to the table. And I can’t see the margins on the legion series being over like $600. Honestly I think their best move from here on out is to get Tosin in front of these guitars for a personal QC like Solar before they ship out. Show us a photo of him checking out 200 guitars that just showed up, like the pictures of him signing the J series.

 

[r3tr0sp3ct1v3]

What if. The ones that released were the 1/3 good ones?

 

[Jonathan20022]

There's no way that you just point blank lose your funding if you send back defective builds to WMI due to reasonable rejection. If they had to send 50 back (Once again, made up number for the sake of discussion), due to reasonable rejection over flaws. They can expect to get 50 replacement guitars for those send backs.

There's countless layers of logistics behind ordering batches of guitars, and I'm not going to make blanket assumptions about how they operate. But I feel like people are reaching pretty hard here considering that Abasi is contracting 3 separate manufacturers to develop and supply batches of instruments in varying sizes.

If Grover/Japan/WMI sends Abasi an instrument with issues, these parties don't just pocket the money. They have to rebuild these instruments to be up to standards, it's in Abasi's best interest to send back instruments and not have negative PR floating around.

 

[BlackMastodon]

More likely they don’t have the capital to do bigger runs so opt for the smaller “exclusive drops” but they probably don’t have the margins to send guitars back this we end up where we are

This is a much better way of wording what I was trying to get at.

 

[I play music]

From an ergonomics and visual perspective it’s really appealing, there’s just a lot of good ideas in the design that are put together by someone with a lot of playing experience. If they can achieve good execution I would totally get one.

I’m not even aware of another brand that does the similar narrow spaced 8 string designs, and there’s not a lot to choose from in non-strat shapes in the first place.

That "ergonomics" nonsense claim needs to stop finally. There is nothing more ergonomic about this than an Ibanez RG 8 string. Several people have even confirmed that the design tends to be neck heavy. If you look at the people playing them at NAMM then you don't tell me that their playing position looks anything ergonomic.
Design is matter of taste of course. First time I thought wtf it looks like mobby dick. I think I can get used to it but still there are better designs.
Most 8 strings are superstrat shaped because single cut 8 strings are usually just not the most "ergonomic" thing. If you don't want something stratty, check out all the headless 8 strings.

 

[Daniel Leu]

My Overcast Legion 7 (finally) came in today. I gave it a pretty thorough going-over and have been playing it for the past couple hours. I've got to say I'm impressed. No flaws in the finish, neck is super straight and action slammed down even past where I would usually set it with no buzz. I'm still getting used to the pickups but they're definitely more versatile than I thought, which was my biggest fear as I usually play clean stuff. I was fully prepared to send this thing back but can't find a single reason to at all. I realize there are people that weren't as fortunate (or have better standards?) but for now I'm keeping it. I'm not much of a metal player so I can't say how these compare to other 7's besides the beat up RG7321 that I've had on loan for the past few months.

Video here for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/p/CG5g_2IhWrR/

 

[Benadon]

My Overcast Legion 7 (finally) came in today. I gave it a pretty thorough going-over and have been playing it for the past couple hours. I've got to say I'm impressed. No flaws in the finish, neck is super straight and action slammed down even past where I would usually set it with no buzz. I'm still getting used to the pickups but they're definitely more versatile than I thought, which was my biggest fear as I usually play clean stuff. I was fully prepared to send this thing back but can't find a single reason to at all. I realize there are people that weren't as fortunate (or have better standards?) but for now I'm keeping it. I'm not much of a met

My Overcast Legion 7 (finally) came in today. I gave it a pretty thorough going-over and have been playing it for the past couple hours. I've got to say I'm impressed. No flaws in the finish, neck is super straight and action slammed down even past where I would usually set it with no buzz. I'm still getting used to the pickups but they're definitely more versatile than I thought, which was my biggest fear as I usually play clean stuff. I was fully prepared to send this thing back but can't find a single reason to at all. I realize there are people that weren't as fortunate (or have better standards?) but for now I'm keeping it. I'm not much of a metal player so I can't say how these compare to other 7's besides the beat up RG7321 that I've had on loan for the past few months.

Video here for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/p/CG5g_2IhWrR/

al player so I can't say how these compare to other 7's besides the beat up RG7321 that I've had on loan for the past few months.

Video here for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/p/CG5g_2IhWrR/

Brilliant, great to hear.
Mine awaits me at home, tommorow i will get to see how mine turns out. Will post here.

 

[Jonathan20022]

My Overcast Legion 7 (finally) came in today. I gave it a pretty thorough going-over and have been playing it for the past couple hours. I've got to say I'm impressed. No flaws in the finish, neck is super straight and action slammed down even past where I would usually set it with no buzz. I'm still getting used to the pickups but they're definitely more versatile than I thought, which was my biggest fear as I usually play clean stuff. I was fully prepared to send this thing back but can't find a single reason to at all. I realize there are people that weren't as fortunate (or have better standards?) but for now I'm keeping it. I'm not much of a metal player so I can't say how these compare to other 7's besides the beat up RG7321 that I've had on loan for the past few months.

Video here for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/p/CG5g_2IhWrR/

That's dope man congrats, I would have loved to get a good example of an Overcast 7.

Personally if mine only had the tool marks at the end of the fretboard + the scratched pickup. I would have asked for a replacement neck pickup and just kept the guitar and sanded down the high E saddle to get the action a bit lower.

It's the other stuff that made it a return for me but glad yours came out great

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Responding to this here as I didn't want to distract from dude's NGD.

New Larada Legion and first-time 8-string guitar owner as well.

Great write up. I think your perspective on quality is well thought out and I agree, that having received my Legion, I don't see why I'd pay "more" for a J or Master series, strictly speaking from a play-ability and feature standpoint. That said, not all motivation is rational(GAS), and if there was the perfect color in either of those more expensive series, AND if they were actually available, I might bite if $ allows.

Speaking of minor defects, it's interesting how different the context is with this genre/community as to what constitutes a defect or blemish. I'm not arguing with any of the criticisms, just pointing out how the customer QC evaluation seems to be so different compared to other guitar genres/communities that I'm more in sync with.

For example, I've played (not owned) several Selmer style gypsy jazz acoustic guitars that are 3-4 times the cost of this Legion we just bought. These were all hand-made by small luthiers in N. America, France, and Spain, who maybe make ~30-150 max units TOTAL a year. Of course, the exclusivity, exotic woods, and individual luthier voodoo that makes them unique, special, achieving some magical tone and feel are all contributing factors to the price.

However, when there is a small "blemish" in the finish or visible evidence of these guitars being completely hand-made and not machined, that community usually embraces it as an example of the "human" involvement in creating the instrument. Of course, tone really is everything in that genre, so that helps to forgive these hand-made "quirks". Funnily, buyers often look for the best example of a batch, expecting that there be differences within a run.

Again, I'm not arguing against what folks in other communities like this one define as excellent quality or defective. I'm just musing the different points of views on the matter.

Interesting.

There are plenty of brands that cater to certain esoteric concepts of "old world craftsmanship" or "handmade" and market a more "rustic" instrument, and I actually really appreciate many of them, but I don't feel that these fall into that category. They're mostly factory made in large, modern facilities, even Grover's operation is more modern than you'd think. That's not a bad thing, as stuff like CNC mills, precision tools, and modern finishing compounds make great instruments.

Some years back there was a guy, Wishnevsky, who basically whittled out super primitive bass guitars under the Wish Bass brand. When I say "primitive" you had to pay extra for a truss rod. They were rough, typically difficult instruments to play, but they had quite the cult following because folks appreciated that they were made with "love" and by hand (tool marks included).