Abasi Concepts/Larada Megathread

[XmO]

Grover inspecting the Spartan 6's

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I don't think the manufacturers missed anything.

I think they sent whatever as long as they hit thier delivery date with the expectation they'd have to accept some returns/make concessions due to quality.

But no one cares.

These aren't impossible to build.

 

[yngve knudsen]

I was just offered a full refund on my guitar and shipping back after sending pictures of my nut to abasi. I asked for a compensation but they could not offer that.

 

[XmO]

Some of these Legions are kind of like a used car salesman selling someone a car that looks phenomenally clean, and then after 100 miles the tranny goes out.
You think the customer isn't going to find the flaws and come back asking for a refund?

I feel like MaxOfMetal is saying, they sent them out regardless, which is now biting them back.

 

[bassisace]

Fair, But maybe those manufacturers have higher capital and more flexibility on what they can send back.


Abasi get the guitars and due to their small size and preorder sales might be locked in to just selling them regardless of defects hoping that enough live with the small marks and the return can keep them afloat for the next run.

A spec change even just painting the necks might help them either minimise or or hide some flaws that they don’t have the ability to send back. There are easier woods to work with if I was in their position it’s definitely something I’d explore along with their QC, if you minimise the risk of defects you further minimise the risk of QC slips.

AFAIK Abasi does not and never had a preorder system.

I doubt neck wood is responsible for horrible nuts, badly aligned pickups on some J7s and tool marks on pickups, body and elsewhere.

 

[Mathemagician]

Plus with Wenge, I’m pretty sure from a tone/feel perspective it’s something that Tosin has a huge preference for. So it’d be weird for him not to offer his preferred specs on his company’s guitars.

 

[r3tr0sp3ct1v3]

https://abasiconcepts.com/

Looks like overcast 7 in stock now.

Which means someone probably returned it or cancelled it.

 

[XmO]

I saw a tundra 6 spartan pop up the other day too with no email from abasi...and i recall reading not long ago about a guy returning a tundra 6...if they are just cleaning up /reselling these returns, that is a major red flag / money grab.

Id hope they arent doing that, but it could be happening to try and sell the instrument to someone less "picky."

 

[cip 123]

The way these OEMs (specifically, WMI and Dyna, I have an idea what Grover is doing, but I won't speculate) work is you tell them what is acceptable and what isn't and then hold them accountable.

They'll whip up a few pre-pro samples and do a pilot run, and then the customer evaluates things and it's up to the manufacturer to hit those targets.

I doubt Dyna or WMI don't have the cash to accept returns.

Like you said earlier it's being put together quick and being sent out by Abasi, my point isn't on WMI not being able to accept returns it's that Abasi are probably sending them out seeing who will accept them.

When they do a "drop" they sell out that day, every guitar has a name on it, so they send it out regardless. They have the money/sales, and that looks good on paper. But I've had guitars that I know full well the builder is aware of the flaws and they just want to see if you'll accept it basically. This feels like that for these WMI's.

Like @Randy says the tooling looks off, if WMI send out production samples surely this would have been noticed, and if WMI have been working with wenge for years then problems like this shouldn't be arising. I agree they're probably unfamiliar with the design and rushing, but in it's essence it's just a multiscale with wenge a nut shelf shouldn't be hard for them. They're rushing Abasi know what they have, but they'll send it.

Which is why I'm suggesting it'd be wise to switch woods to something more forgiving, if they need to rush builds.

Abasi are small and my opinion seeing this latest drop it looks like they're locking themselves in to having to sell what they get and not go bust all together. If you therefore have to rush builds to get out and get money, don't use woods that won't do well under those circumstances. If it's shaves off money and minimises (I'm not saying eliminates because any rushed build could have issues) build problems, then it's a win for Abasi and customers. Of course maple can still crack or chip if it's machined incorrectly or rushed, but I give it a damn sight better chance than wenge. Feel free to disagree but if they wanna rush things I'd wanna minimise risk.

AFAIK Abasi does not and never had a preorder system.

I doubt neck wood is responsible for horrible nuts, badly aligned pickups on some J7s and tool marks on pickups, body and elsewhere.

Preorder was the wrong word, I basically mean when these "drop" they're sold out on the day, every guitar has a name and address on it from the moment they're available basically. Preorder was just the first similar thing that came to mind because that's how it feels they're gone before most get a chance.

Bad nut shelf I can see how poor programming could leave a chip or 2, trying to take off too much material at once, or cutting the wrong way on something brittle could leave bad results.

I'm mainly just talking about the neck issues. The other stuff is just carelessness.

Plus with Wenge, I’m pretty sure from a tone/feel perspective it’s something that Tosin has a huge preference for. So it’d be weird for him not to offer his preferred specs on his company’s guitars.

The TAM10 was maple and walnut even when he had preference for Wenge, and some of the Masters/J's come with roasted maple I think don't they?
Might be his preference, but it's been changed in the past.

 

[HungryGuitarStudent]

@cip 123 Don’t Schecter and other brands already make wenge necked guitars at the WMI factory (e.g. Schecter Nick Johnston model) ? Maybe I’m wrong.

@Jonathan20022 The late response is pretty weird, but maybe he’s dealing with a ton of returns.

 

[StevenC]

@cip 123 Don’t Schecter and other brands already make wenge necked guitars at the WMI factory (e.g. Schecter Nick Johnston model) ? Maybe I’m wrong.

Schecter NJ import is Indonesian made and has a roasted maple neck. I think some of their their KM7 mkIII has a wenge neck, but there were loads of problems with those too, IIRC.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Like you said earlier it's being put together quick and being sent out by Abasi, my point isn't on WMI not being able to accept returns it's that Abasi are probably sending them out seeing who will accept them.

When they do a "drop" they sell out that day, every guitar has a name on it, so they send it out regardless. They have the money/sales, and that looks good on paper. But I've had guitars that I know full well the builder is aware of the flaws and they just want to see if you'll accept it basically. This feels like that for these WMI's.

Like @Randy says the tooling looks off, if WMI send out production samples surely this would have been noticed, and if WMI have been working with wenge for years then problems like this shouldn't be arising. I agree they're probably unfamiliar with the design and rushing, but in it's essence it's just a multiscale with wenge a nut shelf shouldn't be hard for them. They're rushing Abasi know what they have, but they'll send it.

Which is why I'm suggesting it'd be wise to switch woods to something more forgiving, if they need to rush builds.

Abasi are small and my opinion seeing this latest drop it looks like they're locking themselves in to having to sell what they get and not go bust all together. If you therefore have to rush builds to get out and get money, don't use woods that won't do well under those circumstances. If it's shaves off money and minimises (I'm not saying eliminates because any rushed build could have issues) build problems, then it's a win for Abasi and customers. Of course maple can still crack or chip if it's machined incorrectly or rushed, but I give it a damn sight better chance than wenge. Feel free to disagree but if they wanna rush things I'd wanna minimise risk.

I think we're mostly saying the same thing.

What I'm saying is that OEMs are expecting returns, it's part of the game. From what I know helping to manage a Korean house brand in the past, you're not charged for these issues. They either credit you or send replacements. The brand is the customer afterall and if you leave them in the lurch there are plenty other places to go.

The issue isn't how difficult these are or aren't to get right, it's that Abasi doesn't really give a shit what they send out because there's a near endless stream of rubes will to buy junk because of hype or hucksters that'll flip it for profit. There's zero incentive to do better for the foreseeable future using this hype/drop/hype model.

So even if they were putting out vanilla Tele copies, they would be shipping crap because they rather refund/re-ship than go through the process like PRS or Dingwall or Solar does.

Remember, the common denominator here is Abasi. What are the odds that three seasoned, unique builders using a somewhat standard material sourced from different vendors are at fault?

 

[cip 123]

What I'm saying is that OEMs are expecting returns, it's part of the game. From what I know helping to manage a Korean house brand in the past, you're not charged for these issues. They either credit you or send replacements. The brand is the customer afterall and if you leave them in the lurch there are plenty other places to go.

The issue isn't how difficult these are or aren't to get right, it's that Abasi doesn't really give a shit what they send out because there's a near endless stream of rubes will to buy junk because of hype or hucksters that'll flip it for profit. There's zero incentive to do better for the foreseeable future using this hype/drop/hype model.

So even if they were putting out vanilla Tele copies, they would be shipping crap because they rather refund/re-ship than go through the process like PRS or Dingwall or Solar does.

Remember, the common denominator here is Abasi. What are the odds that three seasoned, unique builders using a somewhat standard material sourced from different vendors are at fault?

I feel like we're two sides of the same coin here. Just going about the issue different ways.

I'm not blaming WMI, I fully agree it's Abasi not selling the quality they should, they know what they have and they're sending it out. I'm more customer focused just thinking about ways to get better results for customers if they're going to continue this line the same way or with small improvements I would Personally just use a wood that's easier to handle. It won't solve all the problems but it might get a customer a nicer guitar at the end.

We've seen different neck woods on Larada's and different neck woods on Tosin sigs no real reason not to switch it up, might even help the neck dive.

 

[Mathemagician]

I feel like we're two sides of the same coin here. Just going about the issue different ways.

I'm not blaming WMI, I fully agree it's Abasi not selling the quality they should, they know what they have and they're sending it out. I'm more customer focused just thinking about ways to get better results for customers if they're going to continue this line the same way or with small improvements I would Personally just use a wood that's easier to handle. It won't solve all the problems but it might get a customer a nicer guitar at the end.

We've seen different neck woods on Larada's and different neck woods on Tosin sigs no real reason not to switch it up, might even help the neck dive.

The issue is that it’s not about the wood. WMI have proven they could do it. (It’s likely how they won the bid). It’s Abasi not doing due diligence. The wood isn’t inherently the issue. The lack of/low QC is the culprit.

 

[XmO]

I'd say Buyer Beware for any Abasi that comes available on their website without an official email from them about a "drop." It's most likely a return, and it was most likely returned for a reason.

 

[bassisace]

I'd say Buyer Beware for any Abasi that comes available on their website without an official email from them about a "drop." It's most likely a return, and it was most likely returned for a reason.

That would be extra shady on their part to knowingly sell returned b-stock as mint/new.

 

[diagrammatiks]

They are clearly not reworking or returning enough guitars. But that seems to be par on course for smaller companies using wmi these days.

 

[cip 123]

The issue is that it’s not about the wood. WMI have proven they could do it. (It’s likely how they won the bid). It’s Abasi not doing due diligence. The wood isn’t inherently the issue. The lack of/low QC is the culprit.

Yes but some woods are inherently more susceptible to chipping and tear out. If Abasi are going to send out the guitars with these problems anyway which they are. Switching to something with less risk might get some customers nicer guitars.


My point isn’t “Wenge bad boo” my point is customers might receive better guitars with some spec changes that minimise problems going wrong.


If the tooling is wrong there will always be problems, if the builds are rushed there will always be problems but using materials that aren’t as brittle could stop someone ending up with a neck crack or tear out at the nut.

 

[XmO]

That would be extra shady on their part to knowingly sell returned b-stock as mint/new.

Well, explain to me then how the Legion in "overcast" was limited to 25 worldwide.
This model sells out, logically meaning there is no more of them.
Then yesterday, my legion in overcast arrives back at Abasi in LA for a return. Another guy on here returned one as well.
Suddenly there are more legion in overcast for sale on their website.

So there's only two logical conclusions:
1) They really weren't limited to 25, and more are available or were received by Abasi.
2) They're literally just cleaning the fretboard / polishing the guitar and re-selling returned Legions to the public hoping it will sell to someone who doesn't care / notice the flaws.

I noticed this happened with the Tundra Spartan as well. Someone else mentioned that if Capital is an issue, they may just be trying to sell what they have instead of dealing with returns to WMI.

 

[TheInvisibleHand]

Well, explain to me then how the Legion in "overcast" was limited to 25 worldwide.
This model sells out, logically meaning there is no more of them.
Then yesterday, my legion in overcast arrives back at Abasi in LA for a return. Another guy on here returned one as well.
Suddenly there are more legion in overcast for sale on their website.

So there's only two logical conclusions:
1) They really weren't limited to 25, and more are available or were received by Abasi.
2) They're literally just cleaning the fretboard / polishing the guitar and re-selling returned Legions to the public hoping it will sell to someone who doesn't care / notice the flaws.

I noticed this happened with the Tundra Spartan as well. Someone else mentioned that if Capital is an issue, they may just be trying to sell what they have instead of dealing with returns to WMI.

They are not reselling them. When the guitars are received back the selling software automatically relists the item on the website. I know this because I saw the same thing happen with a Sage J7. I bought it and then within second the order was cancelled by the software and it said "order unable to be filled because of stock". Ivan also emailed me and said it dhouldn't have been relisted. I saw that happen with the Tundra Spartan, and a Spartan that I had cancelled in one of the first batches.