Advice on stain + oil finish (newb)

[russmuller]

If you're going with the two tone look I would say it would be best to have the top and back completely black then sand back the bevels... I think that would look killer.....

I considered doing that, but I wanted to highlight the grain on both the contours and the faces of the guitar. I tried to achieve what I'd call a "burn burst" around the contours, but it turned out more subtle than I was aiming for.

I'm thinking of leaving the sides mostly black because it's ridiculously difficult to sand evenly. The curves alternate from smooth to end grain, so some portions wear away easily while others you can work forever without making a difference. So I think it'll look more cohesive if it's mostly black, instead of committing myself to more nights of endless sanding before the clear coat goes on.

 

[russmuller]

I had originally planned to do a tung oil finish on this guitar, but I'd heard good things about wipe-on polyurethane so I picked some up to give it a shot. This was a mistake.

I do not have a suitable environment for poly. The lighting and ventilation are woefully inadequate. I don't currently have a good way of mounting the guitar for finishing, so unless I feel like MacGuyvering something my options are to have the body laying flat or hanging (from a string through one of the neck bolt holes). When I hang it, the coats tend to dry better but it's harder to get them even. When I lay it flay, I can get even coats but then I get dust settling in and drips.

I'm pretty close to sanding the whole damn thing back and doing it in oil.

 

[russmuller]

Here are some pics of failure from the past week.

I really like how shiny this Minwax wipe-on poly looks, but I don't have good lighting in my workshop. Missed a few spots there:

Hey, this thing almost looks good!

.... almost.

Truth be told, my biggest fatal flaw with poly was not testing it on a piece of scrap like I should have. I was all set to move ahead with oil, but I saw the poly at the store and decided to just grab it and see what happened. I was hoping to finish it by Thanksgiving and I didn't want to wait another day or two before I got started. Not wise.

That being said, this is all a learning process. I'm not terribly disappointed because I'm one of those people who really needs to make my own mistakes. Wood is forgiving, and I've learned something with every step of the way.

Today I've begun sanding it all off and starting over. I took it down through about 90% of everything, so there's a little bit of grain filler still in there. I'm re-applying the Timbermate now, and this gives me a chance to improve on the burnburst I was trying to do previously.

 

[KR250]

Is that just some pitting that I'm seeing? I've been planning on using the wipe on poly as well and still in the process of testing it. How many coats did you do and did you sand between applying and/or do any finish sanding/buffing after the final coat? I'm really curious to see how the oil looks in comparison, that color scheme looks awesome.

 

[Dana]

the idea is cool and it came out pretty decent, but you're rite, a tung oil or danish oil would have given a more natural look, and helps give that weathered look a more natural appeal. also, in the future, try fibbing leather dye. its very consistent, due to the fact that it is designed for leather and goes on very constant. no run or drip marks even if you get them, and it stays even color wise no matter if you keep going over it or not. always even color no matter what. ibanez use it for their m8m guitars.
also, some gray stain or dye will help sell that weathered look too.
overall you did pretty well tho

 

[russmuller]

Is that just some pitting that I'm seeing? I've been planning on using the wipe on poly as well and still in the process of testing it. How many coats did you do and did you sand between applying and/or do any finish sanding/buffing after the final coat? I'm really curious to see how the oil looks in comparison, that color scheme looks awesome.

I believe there's a bit of dust and some tiny air bubbles in there too. These photos were taken after about 6 coats, with sanding in between. No buffing was done prior to these photos being taken.

Because I don't have a good way to mount or hold the guitar while I'm working on it, I ran into a lot of trouble with getting drips of the poly as well, which equated to little raised areas that were a bitch to sand out. Sometimes getting it flat meant wearing into some parts of the finish I'd wanted to keep, which contributes to the un-evenness of the stain coloration.

The wipe-on poly is actually quite good, but it's not a good fit for my current setup, experience level, and with such open-grained wood. I will definitely use it in the future, when I've improved the rest of the setup a bit.

 

[russmuller]

Fortunately, my second attempt at finishing this guitar is going much better than the first. Yesterday I went through a few applications of grain filler and stain. Last night I started the first coat of sealer, so my apartment smells like Twizzlers. The second coat is drying now.

I'm getting better with my masking/prepping, and babysitting. The first time around, I had a lot of trouble with getting things right inside the contours, as dye, sealer, etc... would naturally want to pool or drip in them when trying to work the faces or the sides.

So I decided to leave the polyurethane on the contours when I started over, which has prevented any of the subsequent re-staining and sealing from having any permanent effect. Once I have the front and back of the guitar done, I'll sand and re-do the body edges. After I've finished all that, I'll sand the contours back down to remove the poly and everything above it to prep for oiling the whole body.

 

[russmuller]

Whelp, I got about 75% done and was treating the sides of the body when I had some sealer slip past my masking and drip down the front.

I was very frustrated because it's impossible for me to sand those flat without wearing through most of the surrounding stain. I talked to Grand Master Sully and he said that since I'm doing oil instead of poly, I can skip the sealer.

I finally fashioned myself an MDF handle that bolts into the neck pocket so that I can have the guitar fully suspended for applying and drying. I also brought some more lights into my workshop, so I am doing what I can to improve my workspace without spending more money.

Now I'm on my 3rd attempt at putting a finish on this guitar. I'm getting a lot better with gauging how the stain is going to look when I sand back, so at least the quality has increased with each attempt. I've learned how to be strategic using direct and diluted stain, and getting a smooth transition from one to the other. Here's the front, almost ready for oil.

I've got a fire under my @$$ to have this axe 100% done and playable within 2 weeks, so I'm hoping that I can start applying oil by tomorrow after work. Once the body work is done, it'll get the electronics installed, then it'll get re-assembled. I did a linseed oil finish on the neck and it feels SO GOOD! I wasn't convinced after the first 2 coats, but after 4 or 5 coats with some steel wool in between, it's super smooth.

 

[jwade]

Man, that's looking beautiful.

 

[MaximilianD]

LOVE that black grain fill!

 

[russmuller]

Thanks, guys!!! I'm really happy with how it's coming together.

 

[Dana]

looking great mate

 

[russmuller]

Whelp, things were looking good after work today so I was able to put the first coat of oil on! The lighting isn't ideal for pics, but I'm pretty happy with how it's looking:

 

[Deegatron]

looks badass sir!

 

[russmuller]

Thank you!

This is a few coats in:

I made the mistake of doing some sanding on the headstock while this was drying, and now I've got some dust and debris that stuck to the oil. I've had to resign myself to the fact that it won't be perfect, and that's okay because I'm learning and this is my first try. It's just oil and wood, so I can always sand back and do it over in the future when I've honed my skills and techniques better.

Next time around, I'm going to use my guest bathroom for any of the applying and drying of finishes. Nobody uses it, it's got a vent fan, and I can continue woodworking on other stuff without airborne particles infecting my work.

Live and learn.

 

[russmuller]

I've declared myself done with finishing. Here's the guitar partially assembled. More pics to come once everything is together.

There are a few small boo-boos that have happened thus far when re-assembling the guitar. They were the result of using the wrong tools for the job because I didn't have the right ones yet. :-\ They're small enough flaws that nobody but me is likely to notice them. Even so, I'll have the right tools and do better next time. I've definitely had some moments of frustration, and questioned my ability to do this at all, but I'm not going to let anything (especially not my ego) stop me from moving forward.

 

[russmuller]

Finally finished!

Full frontal:

Showing off the forearm carve:

Oh, hello:

Because CONTOURS!

And the back side:

Girl, lookit' dat body:

I love the lap contour:

Posing with the fam:

 

[wisdom727]

Beautiful result! And great tutorial photos for the rest of us. I really like your fret dot locations - will use that idea on a future build.
What sealer did you use?

 

[russmuller]

Beautiful result! And great tutorial photos for the rest of us. I really like your fret dot locations - will use that idea on a future build.
What sealer did you use?

I used Deft laquer sanding sealer (from the can, smells like Twizzlers) when I was prepping for Poly. In the end, I sanded all of that off and skipped the sealer; it's just multiple coats of grain filler and dye sanded back, with tung oil varnish on top.

 

[J_Mac]

Absolutely love this \m/ one of my favourites on SS.org. Mind if I ask a few questions?

What brand of dye do you use?

How did you do the dot inlays?

I did a re-finish on a basswood guitar recently and struggled to get the grain definition. Do you think this is a characteristic of basswood, whereas ash has a more open grain?