Any Brits here?

[StevenC]

Labour declares historic byelection wins a ‘political earthquake’

Obviously fantastic wins in the 2 by elections yesterday and overturning a couple of the largest Tory majorities
The 2 very worrying things to come out of it tho is that the Hard Right/Brexit hardliners the Reform party did too well. Kind of not surprising when you have essentially GBNews & Talk TV as the Reform Parties propaganda machines. OFCOM need to get a fcuking grip of these channels. However, If all the votes in both Tamworth & Mid Bedfordshire for Reform UK had gone to the Tory's instead then they would still both be Tory seats, just with a huge loss of majority. Can see Reform pushing the Tory's further and further Right on key issues in the run up to the next election.
Also prob more troubling is the results in Tamworth, which its worth noting, voted by a huge majority for Brexit in 2016. Behind Labour, 2nd through to 5th place were all Hard to Extreme Right Populist/Nationalist parties - Tory, Reform UK, Britian First which is basically the rebranded BNP and UKIP. Very worrying

Yeah, I think the more concerning thing is that Labour still don't have a platform or any reason to vote for them. "Tories but competent" is actually a bad thing.

The only possible hope is that this is some sort of big brain move to avoid all the right wing media hit pieces that stopped Corbyn, and then do a swerve when in power to actually solve problems.

 

[_MonSTeR_]

Yeah, I think the more concerning thing is that Labour still don't have a platform or any reason to vote for them. "Tories but competent" is actually a bad thing.

The only possible hope is that this is some sort of big brain move to avoid all the right wing media hit pieces that stopped Corbyn, and then do a swerve when in power to actually solve problems.

I think one of the big problems with party politics in general and one that's affecting the UK at the moment, is that politics is non-linear whereas party politics typically is and that's what we're seeing here.

There are "far right" issues that a lot of traditional left wing voters wholeheartedly agree with, (hence the collapse of the red wall at the last general election). There are a lot of "centre" voters who can't get behind some of the main party policies so end up voting for candidates from smaller parties who have literally no chance of effecting real change so are just lost votes. As such you see traditionally labour voters voting for Britain First or what have you, and former Lib Dem voters feeling like they have no-where to turn. And, with the UK perpetually hurting from Brexit (in so many ways) and no-one offering a solution to fix anything, you're absolutely right, various parties' not just Labour's schtick is now just "we're not the Tories", and it's being used by those to the left AND those to the right!

Talk TV and GBNews scare the living daylight out of me. They're right out of V for Vendetta and 1984 and a myriad of dystopian science fiction movies, and so many people treat them like it's "just a bit of light hearted discussion"

 

[StevenC]

I think one of the big problems with party politics in general and one that's affecting the UK at the moment, is that politics is non-linear whereas party politics typically is and that's what we're seeing here.

There are "far right" issues that a lot of traditional left wing voters wholeheartedly agree with, (hence the collapse of the red wall at the last general election). There are a lot of "centre" voters who can't get behind some of the main party policies so end up voting for candidates from smaller parties who have literally no chance of effecting real change so are just lost votes. As such you see traditionally labour voters voting for Britain First or what have you, and former Lib Dem voters feeling like they have no-where to turn. And, with the UK perpetually hurting from Brexit (in so many ways) and no-one offering a solution to fix anything, you're absolutely right, various parties' not just Labour's schtick is now just "we're not the Tories", and it's being used by those to the left AND those to the right!

Talk TV and GBNews scare the living daylight out of me. They're right out of V for Vendetta and 1984 and a myriad of dystopian science fiction movies, and so many people treat them like it's "just a bit of light hearted discussion"

Yeah those are all real problems.

I'm much more concerned with, like, Labour's NHS plan being more privatisation, just like the Tories, but just with less cronyism? The fact Starmer's can't just say "we'll pay NHS staff better so that we don't have to pay the same money to agency staff" when it would get him every health worker in the country's vote, is quite grim and telling.

Or that not only has he been brought into the nonissue of anti-trans panic, but he's sided with the Tories on it. Or take the easy shots at Rishi for taking a private jet then cancelling HS2. Just do the opposite to the Tories and he'll get so many votes.

But instead Labour is currently positioning themselves the closest to the Tories of all time, trying to court god only knows whose votes.

 

[Louis Cypher]

That is my concern with Labour, there is no genuine clear water between labour and torys, Labour's main shtick seems to be is we aren't the torys or as bad as the torys.

Starmer for me seems a genuinely good man, but politically he is totally the wrong man for these brutal populist right political times and the rampant right wing media landscape

 

[_MonSTeR_]

But instead Labour is currently positioning themselves the closest to the Tories of all time, trying to court god only knows whose votes.

That is my concern with Labour, there is no genuine clear water between labour and torys, Labour's main shtick seems to be is we aren't the torys or as bad as the torys.

Starmer for me seems a genuinely good man, but politically he is totally the wrong man for these brutal populist right political times and the rampant right wing media landscape

But at the same time, it's all a balancing act, and if Labour were to position themselves further from the Tories, then they know they'd lose too many centrist votes to folks who say "at least the Tories aren't UKIP"

At the moment, there seem to be three choices. The Extreme-Right, the Far-Right and Labour. With some of the traditional Labour voters swayed purely by the nationalistic stance of the very right... Both Labour and the Tories are fighting a battle on two fronts, but it's Labour's traditional policies that are being pulled in the more opposite directions whereas the Tories at least are on familiar ground.

I agree that Starmer seems a good man, I'd vote for him, but what alternative does Labour have now, so close to the election and what choice did they have after Corbin alienated so many?

 

[Louis Cypher]

To be fair to Starmer he is trying to walk 3 or 4 tightropes all at the same time both politically (he wants to keep Brexit supporting red wall voters happy at the same time as keeping headbanger Brexit supporters by convincing them he won't look to undo Brexit not that he can, its way more complicated than GBeebies & the Mail are pretending it is as well as moderate centerist voters who have been politically homeless since 2016 plus Scottish voters which used to always be a Labour heartland) plus his and Labours image especially within the Right wing media he wants to keep the labour bashing to a mininium, 1997 as far as I remember as I was pretty young the Sun & Mail were actually on side with Blair.
I am hoping all this is just to get over the line and then he will start taxing the wealthy, curb the Right wing nondom millionaire owned media and sort the NHS & asylum backlog and scrap all the culture wars b0llocks and leave the Tories just in fighting to be the main stream BNP. It will take mor ethan 1 parliment for sure (5 yrs) he is gonna need 2 election victories to even start fixing the UK

 

[Louis Cypher]

The Tories have created a new poverty – one so deep and vicious it requires Victorian vocabulary

Really powerful piece on the levels of poverty in the UK right now
"The number of people experiencing destitution in the UK has more than doubled in the last five years – (3.8 million) up from 1.55 million in 2017. One million children are now living in destitute homes – a staggering increase of 186% in half a decade............. in one of the richest nations on Earth, millions of people going without the basics for sustaining life is “just the way it is”....."

 

[_MonSTeR_]

The Tories have created a new poverty – one so deep and vicious it requires Victorian vocabulary

Really powerful piece on the levels of poverty in the UK right now
"The number of people experiencing destitution in the UK has more than doubled in the last five years – (3.8 million) up from 1.55 million in 2017. One million children are now living in destitute homes – a staggering increase of 186% in half a decade............. in one of the richest nations on Earth, millions of people going without the basics for sustaining life is “just the way it is”....."

My own view on this is that whilst certainly more needs to be available to those most in need, as harsh as it sounds, I think the benefits need to be more stringently tested and delivered in a form OTHER than actual money simply to make sure it's going to the right people and is used for the right things.

Too often "devious" people are turning benefits into a good living for doing nothing simply because the system facilitates it. Which means those who really need it aren't getting enough.

 

[Louis Cypher]

My own view on this is that whilst certainly more needs to be available to those most in need, as harsh as it sounds, I think the benefits need to be more stringently tested and delivered in a form OTHER than actual money simply to make sure it's going to the right people and is used for the right things.

Too often "devious" people are turning benefits into a good living for doing nothing simply because the system facilitates it. Which means those who really need it aren't getting enough.

That is harsh mate tbh
Over 40% of those claiming benefits are actualy in full time work. Things like zero hour contracts that could so easily be made illegal are a huge reason for this.
The majority of non working claimants are either single parents, the disabled or carers who cannot work or who can only work restricted hours obviously. Well over 40% of the entire benefits bill is Pension payments. No other beneft comes any where close to that % and that figure is gonna keep going up and up.
The % of people who you are calling "devious" and claiming when they should not is a small fraction of those who are suffering right now, and be baring in mind the incredibily harsh levels set by the gov over who qualifies and who doesn't for benefits. Over 600 disabled people in 3 years commited suicide over DWP claim process and decisions. Then there is the utterly megre payments you get anyway. £458.51 for a couple over 25 a month is the basic payment. This very Tory/Daily Mail idea that vast numbers of people claiming benefits have chosen a life on benefits rather than working is a total fantasy. In reality no one, especially in the so called 5th richest economy in the world, who is in full time work should have to also claim benefits to support their income just to survive week to week.
If you want more stringent testing of those who really need gov support and benefits then I would say that the Pension payments is what needs addressing and means tested. Not that I agree with that either tbh

 

[nightflameauto]

Too often "devious" people are turning benefits into a good living for doing nothing simply because the system facilitates it. Which means those who really need it aren't getting enough.

This argument is why, in America, it's perfectly acceptable to continually cut benefits for those in need. Because there may be an outlier that abuses the support system for the less fortunate? The solution always seems to be to try and gut the entire support system, rather than prosecute those committing outright fraud.

I watch what's happening over there and see reflections of places we've already been. Don't follow us down the sinkhole of failure that is gutting public support systems. Or in less than a decade you'll be having raging debates about how to deal with all the homelessness. And those arguments are extra levels of stupid, proclaiming all homeless lazy do-nothings who are getting what they deserve to avoid addressing the systemic failures that led to the situation in the first place.

 

[_MonSTeR_]

That is harsh mate tbh
Over 40% of those claiming benefits are actualy in full time work. Things like zero hour contracts that could so easily be made illegal are a huge reason for this.
The majority of non working claimants are either single parents, the disabled or carers who cannot work or who can only work restricted hours obviously. Well over 40% of the entire benefits bill is Pension payments. No other beneft comes any where close to that % and that figure is gonna keep going up and up.
The % of people who you are calling "devious" and claiming when they should not is a small fraction of those who are suffering right now, and be baring in mind the incredibily harsh levels set by the gov over who qualifies and who doesn't for benefits. Over 600 disabled people in 3 years commited suicide over DWP claim process and decisions. Then there is the utterly megre payments you get anyway. £458.51 for a couple over 25 a month is the basic payment. This very Tory/Daily Mail idea that vast numbers of people claiming benefits have chosen a life on benefits rather than working is a total fantasy. In reality no one, especially in the so called 5th richest economy in the world, who is in full time work should have to also claim benefits to support their income just to survive week to week.
If you want more stringent testing of those who really need gov support and benefits then I would say that the Pension payments is what needs addressing and means tested. Not that I agree with that either tbh

I agree. I am harsh on this, maybe ( ), but the last time I did charity deliveries (insert unnecessary humble brag ) , I ended up taking food vouchers to a family with a brand new Maserati on the drive. It maybe a Daily Mail/Tory point of view, but having seen it first hand, I am bitter that the kid who's getting dropped off in a £100K "Blu Emozione" Levante is getting the same handouts as the kids whose maybe only meal that day is a free school lunch. I wholeheartedly acknowledge that it's a small percentage doing it, but if I've noticed it, and the Daily Mail has noticed it, then I would guess it's the tip of the iceberg and maybe something should be done about it.

I helped look after my own elderly parents so I know how draining being a carer is just part time, I can't begin to imagine how draining it is full time and the sacrifice that someone has to make to look after someone who needs full time support and not to be compensated fairly to do that especially if the carer is effectively giving up their own dreams and prospects to look after their elderly relatives!!!

But at the same time, what I simply can't get behind is "my taxes" paying for things like young single mum's deciding to coast through life having four kids from three different fathers by the time they're 25, working a few hours a week and getting more in benefits than a fully qualified junior doctor, or a teacher or a firefighter earns. When my wife and I were ready to start a family, we saved up beforehand, we planned and budgeted and we made sacrifices in our own lives and if we couldn't have afforded to give our family a decent start in life, we simply wouldn't have had a kids. I recognise it's not the four kids's faults, or really even the single mum's fault, it's just a problem with the UK in general.

And ironically whilst I consider myself actually quite liberal on most things, on this sort of thing, I know I'm positively draconian.

Rant over. I'm going back to just complaining about the seemingly permanent harm that the Tories and Brexit continue to do to Britain.

 

[Louis Cypher]

Have to be honest I am pretty shocked by your last post considering your opinion on other things in this thread. Fair play tho for being honest

Out of curiosity, the family with the brand new 100k car you made the charity drop off to. What did you do after that? Did you report it to the charity that you may have delivered food vouchers to a family claiming them who possibly shouldn't have been?

 

[_MonSTeR_]

Have to be honest I am pretty shocked by your last post considering your opinion on other things in this thread. Fair play tho for being honest

Out of curiosity, the family with the brand new 100k car you made the charity drop off to. What did you do after that? Did you report it to the charity that you may have delivered food vouchers to a family claiming them who possibly shouldn't have been?

The "Maserati Incident" is not the only personal experience of this sort of thing I've had, but it makes the best "tabloid" story (Here's not the place for the full text my personal grievances though!)

So... "yes" I reported it and "no" I heard nothing further from it I wasn't going to let it slide and be "part of the problem" but, at the same time, I didn't expect to hear anything back on it. I was effectively a delivery driver and not involved with anything more than that.

As I said, rant over, back to the state of the country!!!

 

[Louis Cypher]

As ever he sums things up perfectly

 

[Louis Cypher]

Completely sums up the fcuked up political commentary within this country all the failed useless MP's who all have TV shows and newspaper columns, reality tv shows..... Boris now not only has his Daily Mail column but now will have his own show on GBeebies from the new year and then best of all is that the tractor p0rn ex mp has remodelled himself as a "political commentator" and today is on the Jeremy Vine show as well as appearing on a reality tv show, baring in mind that Jermy Vine had tory MP Peter Bone on every week until last week when he was finally after 5 yrs of allegations of bullying and sexual misconduct suspended from parliment and had the whip taken away. Yet he was OK to appear regualry on Jeremy Vine and other shows coz he was a hardcore lunatic brexiteer Boris fanboy...... literally just now on the Jeremy Vine show discussing whether all green policies should be scrapped (I know enough said about the quality of that show) Tractor p0rn man as actually argued that a net zero climate specialist that rang in, was wrong.... fcuking mental. Can you imagine a Labour or SNP ex MP being able to reset their career as a Political commentator and reality tv star?

 

[StevenC]

Completely sums up the fcuked up political commentary within this country all the failed useless MP's who all have TV shows and newspaper columns, reality tv shows..... Boris now not only has his Daily Mail column but now will have his own show on GBeebies from the new year and then best of all is that the tractor p0rn ex mp has remodelled himself as a "political commentator" and today is on the Jeremy Vine show as well as appearing on a reality tv show, baring in mind that Jermy Vine had tory MP Peter Bone on every week until last week when he was finally after 5 yrs of allegations of bullying and sexual misconduct suspended from parliment and had the whip taken away. Yet he was OK to appear regualry on Jeremy Vine and other shows coz he was a hardcore lunatic brexiteer Boris fanboy...... literally just now on the Jeremy Vine show discussing whether all green policies should be scrapped (I know enough said about the quality of that show) Tractor p0rn man as actually argued that a net zero climate specialist that rang in, was wrong.... fcuking mental. Can you imagine a Labour or SNP ex MP being able to reset their career as a Political commentator and reality tv star?

The first thing Labour can do to gain trust if they win an election is get Jeremy Vine off the BBC. Like, all he has ever done is promote conflict and division in the UK and actively discourages nuance. He's the ultimate in presenting both sides of an argument as equal when one side is compassion, and the other is locking migrants on a prison ship so they get legionnaires'. Just a tool for shifting the discussion to the right. He's got a show on Channel 5, so giving our taxes to him as well is so gross.

 

[Louis Cypher]

The first thing Labour can do to gain trust if they win an election is get Jeremy Vine off the BBC. Like, all he has ever done is promote conflict and division in the UK and actively discourages nuance. He's the ultimate in presenting both sides of an argument as equal when one side is compassion, and the other is locking migrants on a prison ship so they get legionnaires'. Just a tool for shifting the discussion to the right. He's got a show on Channel 5, so giving our taxes to him as well is so gross.

You are totally right, he isn't the only one but he is the worst as he is one of the few doing it on a national level with both his Radio 2 show and his Ch5 show, so he has reach to people who owuldn;t normally be the GBeebies or Talk Tv audience. His "discussions" under the disguise of neutrality and impartiality allow rightwing BS to be promoted unchecked and unquestioned, sure the other panelist is usually someone of sane mind, but the point is that both sides are treated as equal and when you constantly have week in week out digusting hard right wing people on like Murdoch/Barclay Bros mouth pieces in Carol Malone, Dawn Neesom, Andrew Pierce or Tory MP's like Peter Bone & Tractor P0rn guy, & Jacob Rees Mogg. Talk TV wingnuts like Mike Parry & Isabel Oakeshott & James Max, Brexit Party, Reform UK & UKIP candidates like Alex Phillips, Martin Dawbney, Ann Widdecombe, David Bull, even Farage crops up alot. He also has guests (like the BBC always too actually) from the Tufton St rightwing lunatic think tanks like regular on TV Emily Carver. He even used to let anti vaxer/covid conspiracy theory wing nut Beverly Turner on alot too and allowed her to spout her insanity all over mainstream tv. His show is pure conflict division and alot of times when it comes to the migrants and asylum seekers pure hatred

 

[Louis Cypher]

Lord Bethell says Boris Johnson did ‘everything he could’ to avoid focusing on pandemic in early days of crisis

‘People will die anyway’: Pressure on Boris Johnson over Covid messages



Obviously you will see none of this in the Boris fanboy papers like the Mail, Sun & Express but I am sure when they do bother they will repeat the usual witch hunt mantra to protect him.

"Boris Johnson asked why damage was being inflicted on the economy during the pandemic “for people who will die anyway soon” in a meeting with Rishi Sunak, the Covid inquiry was told on Monday.......... Whitehall’s highest ranking civil servant, Simon Case, complained that Johnson “cannot lead” and wanted to “let it rip” when it came to making crucial choices over how the UK should handle Covid-19, the UK inquiry into the pandemic heard.

The WhatsApp message was sent to Dominic Cummings, at the time Johnson’s chief adviser, by the cabinet secretary, who confided in the midst of an oscillating government response to the pandemic: “I am at the end of my tether.”

“He changes strategic direction every day (Monday we were all about fear of virus returning as per Europe, March etc – today we’re in ‘let it rip’ mode cos [sic] the UK is pathetic, needs a cold shower etc.)” added Case"

"Extracts from the notebook of Sir Patrick Vallance meanwhile showed the chief scientific adviser considered the former prime minister to be “weak and indecisive”."

 

[_MonSTeR_]

Boris was not indecisive.

This speech recorded during the Covid pandemic proves how effective a decision maker he always has been...

 

[StevenC]

Reminder:

Today is the last day of the NHS consultation on their plan to ban puberty blockers for trans kids.

The policy isn't backed by science, is explicitly discriminatory, and seeks to do harm to children.