Classical guitar SetUp

[Hallic]

Hello,

Im wondering what is considerd a setup for classical guitar.

Im assuming it should include:
-changing strings
-cleaning finderboard
-polish body/neck of guitar
-clean tuning heads(oil)
-Intonate the guitar and/or setting action of the strings, utilizing:
-- the Truss rodd
--neck slots
--bridge
-Fretdressing?(not sure if this included in a setup)

This last point is where i have my question. I brought my classical guitar to a shop to have it set up, because the intonation had become bad with the climate changing to winter. I picked it up and noticed that all the strings were intonated correctely at the 12th fret, except for the g-string(3th trebble strings, i use standard tuning).

its a bit sharp at the octave. Maybe about 3cent, still somewhat tolerable.
However at playing the string lower, at the 7th fret its off about ~7cents, which is totally not ok.

I phoned the store where i have let it set up, and basically the owner of the store said they could only do truss rod adjustment on a classical. He said with electrics they can adjust saddles, but not with acoustics they can't, and thus suggestion they don't file bridges?


TL;DR
Is bridge filing normally part of a classical set-up so one achieves the proper intonation??
im asuming filing the bridge is needed, since the trussrod only get you so far

 

[Hallic]

This used to be a very active site.
Maybe if i put it like this

Can i use a blowtorch to adjust the bridge on the guitar? it will increase intonation right?

otherwise i need to sell the guitar for paintball guns

 

[vinta9e]

Traditional classical guitars don't have a truss rod at all. Furthermore, a straight, thin, one piece saddle most probably won't intonate dead-on perfectly.

 

[Winspear]

Furthermore, a straight, thin, one piece saddle most probably won't intonate dead-on perfectly.

Indeed. Intonation is a topic of much discussion on classical guitar anyway. Rarely would you hear people talking about the intonation of a certain electric guitar - it's taken for granted given good setup. However I see intonation talked about as a characteristic of classical guitars quality. And strings are a big factor - classical guitarists are often very particular about strings and go to great efforts mixing and matching and experimenting with different brands and string types to achieve good intonation (along with tone and dynamic balance)

 

[Hallic]

Thanks for repleying.


I went back to the store with it. We tried a different string and the intonation is now good again.
before it was slightly sharp at the 12th fret. All the other strings were spot on at the 12th. However when going to the 7th fret of the g-string it was way off. as in ~12 cents.(see orginal post )

So a different string seems to fix is. only problem is i now have a g-string of different type of polymer(gloudy/semi transparant, instead of crystal clear see through). So i have ordered a new set with those monoflament polymer trebble strings.

furthermore they said they couldn't do much on the bridge. Since the bridge has a certain roundness on the rop, filing would result in altering the shape. Which i agree, and thus possible altering the characteristic of the sound transference.

The tech compared it to electrics, where the strings would really alter much in distance. Which i think is a bad comparison, polymere strings have very different densities and elasticity modulus than metal strings(order of magitude more).

he could lower the bridge, but that wouldnt change the problem al together

 

[Winspear]

Ah yes, those G strings are quite common. Much better in tone too I find - typically those nylon G strings are very large (around .040) and sound very tubby and intonate badly. Composite G strings are nice. You may even find you are able to use a thin wound string (D'addario NYL022w for example) - not sure at that pitch though. Mine is good a step down.
If you are confident that some backward movement of the bridge is necessary, you could file it yourself. It's pretty easy - just go for a 45 degree angle with a file 10mm or less wide where that string sits. Soften the edge when you are done.

 

[Given To Fly]

Its ok if the 3rd string is made of a different material than the rest of the strings. D'Addario Pro Arte Composite's have two G strings (one nylon and one composite) for the preference of the player. I could talk about classical guitar strings forever but for the sake of your sanity I'll just leave it at that.

I do not know how serious of a classical guitarist you are but if its a path you want to go down I would recommend finding a luthier (as in a person who builds classical guitars for a living) who is nearby and strike up a friendship. They will usually do some tech work if its needed and they could certainly make you a new saddle. They also know classical guitars so well that they are rarely ever wrong about an instrument's problems which is always nice.

 

[Hallic]

If you are confident that some backward movement of the bridge is necessary, you could file it yourself. It's pretty easy - just go for a 45 degree angle with a file 10mm or less wide where that string sits. Soften the edge when you are done.

10mm
thats a lot! the bridge isnt even that wide

Its ok if the 3rd string is made of a different material than the rest of the strings. D'Addario Pro Arte Composite's have two G strings (one nylon and one composite) for the preference of the player. I could talk about classical guitar strings forever but for the sake of your sanity I'll just leave it at that.

I do not know how serious of a classical guitarist you are but if its a path you want to go down I would recommend finding a luthier (as in a person who builds classical guitars for a living) who is nearby and strike up a friendship. They will usually do some tech work if its needed and they could certainly make you a new saddle. They also know classical guitars so well that they are rarely ever wrong about an instrument's problems which is always nice.

Well actually, please talk about it
Classical guitar is currently my main instrument

 

[Winspear]

10mm as in width to fit the string spacing and only intonate that one string
Those D'addario Pro Artes are nice. I've been using the lightly polished ones basses. Haven't tried the composite third in there as I haven't felt a need for it , but my guitars and tunings are pretty different.

 

[Given To Fly]

Well actually, please talk about it
Classical guitar is currently my main instrument

Very cool! How long have you played? What guitar are you playing on? As far as strings go, one of the reasons a composite string is used as the 3rd string is to make the timbral transition between wound strings and treble strings a little smoother.

While I could write forever about my experience with classical guitar strings, most of it would be subjective because we do not have the same instrument, technique, tonal preferences, ears, etc. However, at some point in your classical guitar playing journey you will want to find which strings sound best with your guitar. This usually takes years because its a passive endeavor and you and your guitar will change over time as well. I thought I had found the best strings in Hannabach 815 Silver Specials. I used those for awhile until I eventually tried Hannabach Carbon Trebles with Custom Basses. The Carbon Trebles were the true gems in this set. They were incredibly loud and incredibly clear. Unfortunately, they were also incredibly bright, so I needed a carbon string that tamed the high end a bit. Thats when I tried Hannabach Goldin's. For me and my guitars, these strings, with an additional string from a 10 string Hannabach Silver Special pack, used for the 7th (I play 7 string classical guitars), are the best sounding strings I have heard and I have been using them unwaveringly for the past 4-5 years.

Try Saverez, D'Addario, Hannabach, La Bella, etc. and find what works for you and your guitar. More importantly though, change your strings often. What is often? It varies, but if you are practicing hours everyday, changing your strings every two weeks is not abnormal.

I hope that is enough to start.

 

[DanieleSpadavecchia]

My experience is that when a classical guitar is out of intonation is because of the strings. For example I had the problem when I put a set of La Bella strings with red trebles. Usually it depends on the nylon top strings that aren't evenly cut at a stable diameter section. I Never had a problem with D'Addario pro Arte strings.

 

[neoclassical]

Once you settle on a particular brand and tension of string, you could have a custom compensated saddle made, but like all guitars classical intonation is a compromise. You could also try a Tusq compensated saddle.

 

[Hallic]

Once you settle on a particular brand and tension of string, you could have a custom compensated saddle made, but like all guitars classical intonation is a compromise. You could also try a Tusq compensated saddle.

good tip.
However those wont fit since they are designed for 6 strings guitars