Elon Musk is on a roll

[AMOS]

Here's your chance to change my mind, give me ONE convincing argument that any human on this earth deserves to control that much currency, especially when we have a third of the earth in poverty. Go on.

If it weren't for people like him, there would be far fewer tax dollars to send out to people for Covid relief, Disability, Welfare and many other programs. You think he doesn't pay his fair share? Burn all the billionaires and see what's left to pay for all this. There won't be enough.

 

[AMOS]

Here's your chance to change my mind, give me ONE convincing argument that any human on this earth deserves to control that much currency, especially when we have a third of the earth in poverty. Go on.

We're Capitalists, and what he owns he built. Who's qualified to judge how much currency someone should control? In our system we have no limits. Think of all the benefits and high salaries govt employees get. Public Unions rape the tax payers yet no one complains about that.

 

[thebeesknees22]

If it weren't for people like him, there would be far fewer tax dollars to send out to people for Covid relief, Disability, Welfare and many other programs. You think he doesn't pay his fair share? Burn all the billionaires and see what's left to pay for all this. There won't be enough.
View attachment 106835

LOOOL

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or if it's serious

 

[MFB]

We're Capitalists, and what he owns he built.

Bruh, his parent's owned a god damn MINE, safe to say he started off on a level none of us will ever even dream of comprehending

 

[AMOS]

LOOOL

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or if it's serious

The top 5% pays 59.4% of all federal taxes. let's burn those top 5 percenters and see what's left.

 

[AMOS]

Bruh, his parent's owned a god damn MINE, safe to say he started off on a level none of us will ever even dream of comprehending

Doesn't matter, it's still his. Should someone decide how much you should keep of what you've earned? Where do you draw the line? There's always Venezuela if you'd like to sample living under a different system.

 

[thebeesknees22]

Elon makes like no joke 50,000 times what the average person makes so I don't get your point. 50% isn't even a drop in the bucket for him.

 

[CanserDYI]

Man the amount of rich dude handjobs conservatives would give out, my god. Just suck the dude off already. By the way, that 11 billion is 4 fucking percent of his net worth. I swear capitalism is a fucking poison that has ruined people. The only reason socialism and communism fail is because people are corrupted by capitalism at this point, the well has been poisoned.

 

[AMOS]

Man the amount of rich dude handjobs conservatives would give out, my god. Just suck the dude off already. By the way, that 11 billion is 4 fucking percent of his net worth. I swear capitalism is a fucking poison that has ruined people. The only reason socialism and communism fail is because people are corrupted by capitalism at this point, the well has been poisoned.

You're much worse than what you despise, you make no secret of that. Conservatives support free speech, liberals and leftists only support free speech if it's them carrying it out. I hate billionaires too but we need them. Without them tax dollars go bye bye then people starve because the govt has no money for the people, it all goes to them then people like you have to eat your dog. Suck it up snowflake the USA is Capitalist, and always will be.

 

[thebeesknees22]

You're much worse than what you despise, you make no secret of that. Conservatives support free speech, liberals and leftists only support free speech if it's them carrying it out. I hate billionaires too but we need them. Without them tax dollars go bye bye then people starve because the govt has no money for the people, it all goes to them then people like you have to eat your dog. Suck it up snowflake the USA is Capitalist, and always will be.

 

[tedtan]

Here's your chance to change my mind, give me ONE convincing argument that any human on this earth deserves to control that much currency, especially when we have a third of the earth in poverty. Go on.

The net worth isn’t in currency, its mostly from the estimated value of the stock they own in their companies, then from other assets like real estate and so forth. So they own expensive things, but can’t dive into their piles of cash like Scrooge McDuck.

 

[narad]

Ah yes, the guy who brought a rushed and impossibly unmaneuverable submarine to rescue trapped kids in some nerdy PR attempt, and then insulted the guy who actually rescued them when it didn't work. I definitely want to see more of that behavior!

 

[wheresthefbomb]

Doesn't matter, it's still his. Should someone decide how much you should keep of what you've earned? Where do you draw the line? There's always Venezuela if you'd like to sample living under a different system.

Venezuela has had their government and economy repeatedly undermined by the US via sanctions and "interventions" that amounted to CIA backed coups. We have no way of knowing whether they'd make a good test case for socialism, but they're certainly not a valid test case for why it wouldn't work. The irony is that Maduro and Chavez before him, generally not nice dudes, become folk heroes to the third world simply because they're willing to stand up to western interventionist policies.



Oh and speaking of Leon Skum and US backed coups in South America, I actually came here to post this. What a guy!

 

[Hollowway]

You're much worse than what you despise, you make no secret of that. Conservatives support free speech, liberals and leftists only support free speech if it's them carrying it out. I hate billionaires too but we need them. Without them tax dollars go bye bye then people starve because the govt has no money for the people, it all goes to them then people like you have to eat your dog. Suck it up snowflake the USA is Capitalist, and always will be.

Well, based on what I think I know, you’re wrong on a couple of counts.
1) you ask who’s to judge how much currency someone makes. But the fact is, the wealthy people literally make the laws deciding who pays what in taxes. It’s no mistake that capital gains taxes are far less than ordinary income. Mostly wealthy people are in the levels of government that make the tax laws, and certainly only wealthy people can afford to pay lobbyists. Further, most tax sheltering is only available to the ultra wealthy. For most of us, maxing out our annual retirement plan means in the low 5 digits. But the ultra wealthy cab shuttle away hundreds of thousands in defined benefit plans and other vehicles specifically made for them. As for Musk, or another billionaire, you say that if it weren’t for them less tax dollars would be collected. In fact, if his billions were instead distributed as income to his employees, they’d be taxed at a higher rate, and it would generate MORE tax dollars. Almost any use of his billions would generate more tax dollars than having them sit in his shares of companies.
2) you say it’s better than Bernie giving away stuff. It’s not that Bernie is giving away stuff, and others aren’t. Bernie is just giving stuff to people, rather than corporations. If you read through what economists have said about his plans vs others, you’ll see far less given to the military, and way more given to healthcare, college, etc. It shouldn’t seem outlandish - were the only first world country to have exorbitant health care costs, with measurably low actual health.
3) the republicans do not support free speech, full stop. Free speech means that the government cannot stop anyone from expressing themselves. Yet, Trump tried many times to do that. Desantis is currently doing that to Disney, because he doesn’t like them expressing their opinion. Republican governors around the country are stifling teachers’ ability to teach what they want. They are literally banning books. The republicans are railing against “cancel culture,” saying that if I don’t want to shop at a Hobby Lobby, I need a better reason than I don’t like the owner. I think what you mean is that private companies should not be allowed to stifle speech. That’s certainly the mixup Musk had, when he was going to buy Twitter to restore free speech. But, republicans can’t make up their mind - should we allow companies to run their businesses as they want, or should the government control them? If a company needs to check in with the government about its own policies, and can’t ban Trump or block misinformation, then is that really what you want? That’s what they do in China and Russia. That’s not what the republicans say they want. In contrast, the liberals against “free speech” are actually against “unchecked hate speech” and “demonstrably false information.” That’s a huge distinction.
4) Musk is absolutely not inviting of people criticizing him. He may have said he wants it, but he’s demonstrated time and again that he can’t handle it, He’s KNOWN for his thin skin. From canceling the Tesla order of a reporter who wrote less than a glowing review of his cars, to now reneging on a charity contribution to the Gates Foundation, because Gates maintained a short position on TSLA (which is known to be wildly overvalued) to calling the cave rescue man a “pedo guy,” to wrangling to get the title “founder” of Tesla, even though he’s not a founder of Tesla, but is worried people won’t think he started it.

I’m a capitalist, and a fan of Musk. But your statements are just too far off the mark, and not nuanced enough to be a good discussion. I don’t mean to sound like a dick, though I’m sure this is coming off that way, but it seems to me you haven’t read up on a lot of what you’re commenting on. Our government, and certainly our corporations and billionaires, are spending a huge amount of effort to spin and force propaganda at us all day long. I think it’s exceptionally important that we take the time to discuss the nuances of what’s going on, rather than getting into simple arguments without depth. And I’m not just aiming this at you - myself included. I’ll come across what I think is a BS thing, and then read about it, and learn I was totally wrong. It’s why I’m not a republican or a democrat, because there isn’t a place for me on either extreme.

Anyway, apologies for my unhinged rant, and apologies if I’m coming across like an accusatory jerk. I’m mean this as an argument, but more or a debate argument than a throwing-stuff argument.

 

[ScottThunes1960]

This site needs a Tiger Beat skin to put some of these threads in the proper context.

 

[CanserDYI]

Well, based on what I think I know, you’re wrong on a couple of counts.
1) you ask who’s to judge how much currency someone makes. But the fact is, the wealthy people literally make the laws deciding who pays what in taxes. It’s no mistake that capital gains taxes are far less than ordinary income. Mostly wealthy people are in the levels of government that make the tax laws, and certainly only wealthy people can afford to pay lobbyists. Further, most tax sheltering is only available to the ultra wealthy. For most of us, maxing out our annual retirement plan means in the low 5 digits. But the ultra wealthy cab shuttle away hundreds of thousands in defined benefit plans and other vehicles specifically made for them. As for Musk, or another billionaire, you say that if it weren’t for them less tax dollars would be collected. In fact, if his billions were instead distributed as income to his employees, they’d be taxed at a higher rate, and it would generate MORE tax dollars. Almost any use of his billions would generate more tax dollars than having them sit in his shares of companies.
2) you say it’s better than Bernie giving away stuff. It’s not that Bernie is giving away stuff, and others aren’t. Bernie is just giving stuff to people, rather than corporations. If you read through what economists have said about his plans vs others, you’ll see far less given to the military, and way more given to healthcare, college, etc. It shouldn’t seem outlandish - were the only first world country to have exorbitant health care costs, with measurably low actual health.
3) the republicans do not support free speech, full stop. Free speech means that the government cannot stop anyone from expressing themselves. Yet, Trump tried many times to do that. Desantis is currently doing that to Disney, because he doesn’t like them expressing their opinion. Republican governors around the country are stifling teachers’ ability to teach what they want. They are literally banning books. The republicans are railing against “cancel culture,” saying that if I don’t want to shop at a Hobby Lobby, I need a better reason than I don’t like the owner. I think what you mean is that private companies should not be allowed to stifle speech. That’s certainly the mixup Musk had, when he was going to buy Twitter to restore free speech. But, republicans can’t make up their mind - should we allow companies to run their businesses as they want, or should the government control them? If a company needs to check in with the government about its own policies, and can’t ban Trump or block misinformation, then is that really what you want? That’s what they do in China and Russia. That’s not what the republicans say they want. In contrast, the liberals against “free speech” are actually against “unchecked hate speech” and “demonstrably false information.” That’s a huge distinction.
4) Musk is absolutely not inviting of people criticizing him. He may have said he wants it, but he’s demonstrated time and again that he can’t handle it, He’s KNOWN for his thin skin. From canceling the Tesla order of a reporter who wrote less than a glowing review of his cars, to now reneging on a charity contribution to the Gates Foundation, because Gates maintained a short position on TSLA (which is known to be wildly overvalued) to calling the cave rescue man a “pedo guy,” to wrangling to get the title “founder” of Tesla, even though he’s not a founder of Tesla, but is worried people won’t think he started it.

I’m a capitalist, and a fan of Musk. But your statements are just too far off the mark, and not nuanced enough to be a good discussion. I don’t mean to sound like a dick, though I’m sure this is coming off that way, but it seems to me you haven’t read up on a lot of what you’re commenting on. Our government, and certainly our corporations and billionaires, are spending a huge amount of effort to spin and force propaganda at us all day long. I think it’s exceptionally important that we take the time to discuss the nuances of what’s going on, rather than getting into simple arguments without depth. And I’m not just aiming this at you - myself included. I’ll come across what I think is a BS thing, and then read about it, and learn I was totally wrong. It’s why I’m not a republican or a democrat, because there isn’t a place for me on either extreme.

Anyway, apologies for my unhinged rant, and apologies if I’m coming across like an accusatory jerk. I’m mean this as an argument, but more or a debate argument than a throwing-stuff argument.

Finally a capitalist I can have a conversation with. Many good points here.

 

[StevenC]

LOOOL

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or if it's serious

AMOS is really serious about all their right wing media talking points and seems almost to be a caricature.

Ah yes, the guy who brought a rushed and impossibly unmaneuverable submarine to rescue trapped kids in some nerdy PR attempt, and then insulted the guy who actually rescued them when it didn't work. I definitely want to see more of that behavior!

Insulted is a light way to say called the actual rescuer a paedophile for living in Thailand, made repeated allegations over the course of two months, and hired a private investigator, because of a bruised ego. That defamation case was such a sham.

I’m a fan of Musk.

You had me in the first half, not going to lie.

 

[profwoot]

As a space nerd it's been frustrating watching Elon's descent into Trumpian narcissism.

SpaceX has launched and landed a rocket every week so far this year. It's difficult to describe how unthinkable that was even to people in the industry only a few years ago. They've reduced the cost of getting stuff to space so much that they basically get every commercial payload now. SpaceX launched 4-5x more mass to space last year than the nearest competitor (the Russian government). If Starship (by far the most powerful rocket ever built) works out as intended, the cost of getting stuff to space will plummet another order of magnitude. The implications of that are potentially revolutionary, but also unpredictable, especially now that he's turned into a demagogue.

Social media is basically designed to lure folks into the far-right echo chamber, and with the amount of money he's recently accumulated, of course he would embrace the side working so hard for corporate hegemony. But especially in the last year or two his apotheosis as the god of shitposting edgelords has me kicking myself for ever being a fan. And feeling even more pessimistic about the future of society.

 

[narad]

Yea, the people at SpaceX have done amazing things. Thank you Elon for giving them funding to do it as part of a larger business venture.

 

[BlackMastodon]

It's like a shitty conservative bingo card. I'm waiting for AMOS to call us all communist lizard people who eat babies in Satanic rituals.

But especially in the last year or two his apotheosis as the god of shitposting edgelords has me kicking myself for ever being a fan. And feeling even more pessimistic about the future of society.

This is where I'm at with Musk. I was a huge fan of Tesla and his mission statement in the mid-2010's but it just seems like he went off the deep end and started pulling some shady business models with the company. Not to mention the fact that he works employees to the bone and then shames them for getting burnt out or not being able to accomplish his every whim.

Yea, the people at SpaceX have done amazing things. Thank you Elon for giving them funding to do it as part of a larger business venture.

And thank you, Elon, for perpetuating the Silicon Valley obsession with workaholism all for the sake of your ego so you can keep launching cars into orbit.