Emperor a Nazi band?

[Jakke]

This is very related:

^Courtesy of Metalhead Memes

 

[Goatchrist]

I find it odd that people confuse Satanic philosophy with being a Nazi as if they somehow have something to do with one another..they in fact do not.

I know it hasn't anything to do with each other.

I once read an interview were he was talking about egocentric views(he was pretty young), he mentioned that he does not care about "weak" starving children in Africa, I guess he just chose a poor example.

I think he has matured a lot.

 

[Konfyouzd]

I find it odd that people confuse Satanic philosophy with being a Nazi as if they somehow have something to do with one another..they in fact do not.

If it's not righteous and "godly" then it's satanic, clearly...

All things "bad" (or different) get swept into the same pile if you let a dumbass make the decision.

 

[kung_fu]

I recall reading in a guitar world around the time Prometheus came out, that he was currently listening to lots of Lenny Kravitz (a black jew). Unless he was being ironic, this points NOT a nazi .

 

[Konfyouzd]

See this is what I don't get. Why does a person's personal beliefs have to have anything to do with whether or not you enjoy the way they put sounds together?

Even if he WAS a Nazi does that mean he couldn't like Lenny Kravitz's music? Is his music Jewish or is he?

This is the same bullshit that ppl go on with every time the media reveals that some celebrity is just as much human as the rest of us...

"<Random Celebrity> caught cheating!"

Oh bc that's something that none of us can relate to... And it clearly means that whatever they've done to gain recognition is no longer good?

If a person presents himself to you as a musician don't expect sainthood from them. Expect music. Save the rest of that shit for a more appropriate time and place.

 

[Xaios]

Ah, thanks for clearing it up

New thread time:

"Xaios a grammar Nazi?"

 

[Konfyouzd]

New thread time:

"Xaios a grammar Nazi?"

 

[DrakkarTyrannis]

See this is what I don't get. Why does a person's personal beliefs have to have anything to do with whether or not you enjoy the way they put sounds together?

Even if he WAS a Nazi does that mean he couldn't like Lenny Kravitz's music? Is his music Jewish or is he?

This is the same bullshit that ppl go on with every time the media reveals that some celebrity is just as much human as the rest of us...

"<Random Celebrity> caught cheating!"

Oh bc that's something that none of us can relate to... And it clearly means that whatever they've done to gain recognition is no longer good?

If a person presents himself to you as a musician don't expect sainthood from them. Expect music. Save the rest of that shit for a more appropriate time and place.

This. I like music..not someone's personal ideologies.

 

[Waelstrum]

See this is what I don't get. Why does a person's personal beliefs have to have anything to do with whether or not you enjoy the way they put sounds together?

Even if he WAS a Nazi does that mean he couldn't like Lenny Kravitz's music? Is his music Jewish or is he?

This is the same bullshit that ppl go on with every time the media reveals that some celebrity is just as much human as the rest of us...

"<Random Celebrity> caught cheating!"

Oh bc that's something that none of us can relate to... And it clearly means that whatever they've done to gain recognition is no longer good?

If a person presents himself to you as a musician don't expect sainthood from them. Expect music. Save the rest of that shit for a more appropriate time and place.

I can see your point, and if Ihsan (sp) was a Nazi but not his music, then it probably wouldn't mattaer as much. (Some might feel bad about contributing any money at all to a Nazi, but that's another thing.) However, if Emperor was an NSMB band (they're not, but this is just if), then that would be a different story. In the same way that some people won't listen to music that has lyrics they find boring, many people wish not to be offended, and there isn't much subject matter more offensive than glorifying Nazis.

 

[wlfers]

That's ridiculous though. How did National Socialism become the most offensive subject matter? On a personal level I can find many more things that are worse than a social-political ideology that ties racism into its foundation- though that is just my opinion.

Really, anyone who publicly holds those opinions eternally condemns themselves to never be taken seriously. Condemning it is about as useful and productive as condemning cancer.

I tried to hate on MJ when the pedophilia allegations came out. But the truth of the matter is whether or not he touched a young boy or two, his music is still bumpin as fuck.

 

[Konfyouzd]

So is the subject matter the only thing that matters? Assuming an instrumental artist/band felt a certain way and you don't agree. Would that be a big deal too?

 

[Waelstrum]

That's ridiculous though. How did National Socialism become the most offensive subject matter? On a personal level I can find many more things that are worse than a social-political ideology that ties racism into its foundation- though that is just my opinion.

Over sixty million deaths(from the Holocaust and war combined) is a pretty offensive thing to glorify. There are probably worse things, but it's not a competition.

Really, anyone who publicly holds those opinions eternally condemns themselves to never be taken seriously. Condemning it is about as useful and productive as condemning cancer.

I would say that it is slightly more productive to condemn Nazism than it is to condemn cancer. Cancer can't be stopped by teaching history to children at school, whereas Nazism can at least be reduced to only the most extremist of racists.

I tried to hate on MJ when the pedophilia allegations came out. But the truth of the matter is whether or not he touched a young boy or two, his music is still bumpin as fuck.

I kind of agree with this, and I use the same justification whenever I feel like listening to Wagner. (Incidentally, Wagner wasn't a Nazi either, but that is because his dates don't match up.)

 

[Jakke]

I just realized, these rumours are a grand breach of Godwin's law!

 

[wlfers]

And death is a topic foreign to metal? It's not a competition, I just clearly disagree with it being as offensive as you make it out to be, especially since there are plenty of jackasses out there making great music to disagree with.

I'm not disagreeing with your main point, in the hypothetical that it would be different between if he was NS yet left Emperor without political influence, and if he included a political message tied to the music.

 

[petereanima]

See this is what I don't get. Why does a person's personal beliefs have to have anything to do with whether or not you enjoy the way they put sounds together?

Because if I spend my money on records or live-shows, I do not want to support some lowlife Nazi-scum with it.

 

[ilyti]

I'd say it can ruin an artist or band a lot more quickly if their lyrics and band imagery promote ideas I don't agree with. But if I don't know what they're saying (it's in another language or is instrumental only) then it's harder for my conscience to decide. As for Wagner.. yeah, he was a bigot, but so were a looooot of people in those days. Mozart was a freemason, and allegedly a real creep, but that isn't going to affect what I think of his music. I'd buy a Wagner CD, but not a Burzum CD, because most people know by now how wrong it is to be racist/bigoted, and it's not like they're acting in ignorance. That said, I probably wouldn't know Varg was a racist, bigoted assclown if it weren't for the fact that he killed a guy. And his lyrics are all in Norwegian, or entirely indecipherable.

As for Ihsahn, all I can ever decipher in his lyrics is misanthropy and general pessimism. Never anything really offensive. So, even if certain members of Emperor had NS leanings, if they didn't actually have much to do with writing the music (they didn't, it was always the Ihsahn show), it doesn't bother me too much. And further, now that he does it ALL by himself, it makes my conscience feel slightly better.

 

[petereanima]

That said, I probably wouldn't know Varg was a racist, bigoted assclown if it weren't for the fact that he killed a guy.

Read the stuff on his homepage. You might feel the urge to puke afterwards tough.

 

[kung_fu]

See this is what I don't get. Why does a person's personal beliefs have to have anything to do with whether or not you enjoy the way they put sounds together?

Even if he WAS a Nazi does that mean he couldn't like Lenny Kravitz's music? Is his music Jewish or is he?

I just posted the Lenny Kravitz bit as i thought it was amusing. The only thing I use t judge what music i like is my ears. I don't think that i belong to any extreme ideological group, but I do think that there are certain ideologies that might inhibits someone's ability to like music. Not disliking the sounds themselves, disliking something about the artist so strongly that it they allow it to affect their musical tastes (pretty mental, right? ). For instance, a white supremacist might actually dig hip-hop but would have a had time reconciling this with their hatred of blacks.

 

[blaaargh]

To me personally, it doesn't matter what a person/band's beliefs are as long as they make good music. I love Burzum and Nokturnal Mortum even though I think their ideologies are disgusting. It doesn't stop me from enjoying their music.

 

[The Uncreator]

So is the subject matter the only thing that matters? Assuming an instrumental artist/band felt a certain way and you don't agree. Would that be a big deal too?

This is copied from another forum where I answered a very similar question, I still feel this way strongly...

"I laugh because everyone here tries to define Metal. I learned awhile ago thats just useless. Metal is not expression through heavy instrumentation, not trying to argue but its too narrow, too many things exist outside of that definition that are metal. Best way too define Metal is by no definition, its defined only by the listener and there ideas. Thats why its so great! Our definitions vary so greatly yet we all share that same love of Heavy Metal - It unites us! Its a tool for unification regardless of race, sex, or anything, this music is a tool of division. (in reference to a Nazi metal video)

Music is a platform of expression, your expressions are defined by experiences and ideals. This particular ideal, or any rascist ideal, is ignorant, and its an expression of ignorance - Even the most intelligent racist thinker of the face of the plant still falls prey to this simple-minded old world idiocy, and as we move on to the future these petty beliefs are what keep us apart, create wars and conflict. People do not like to be a part of something like that.

People hate this stuff hopefully because they see its something more than just something like anti-religion, its anti-human. With someone who speaks against religion, the intellectual side of the argument is because of the damage it causes to society, to social systems, politics and the whole of humanity, the hate it creates versus the meager amount of joy it provides.

People can understand and even respect anti-religious views because they can be based in facts, intelligent thought structures, humanistic views, ways of thinking that still promote a better world. Racist views are only based in ignorance, no facts, no betterment of mankind, its useless.

I see Wacken or any major metal festival, and I see christians, jews, muslims, atheists, blacks, whites, asians, gays, lesbians, straights - all there to celebrate and enjoy the same thing, Heavy Metal. This "Angry Aryan" thing would turn that view into a sea of bald headed dumb white guys, fuck. that"