Fender's new high-end modeler; Tone Master Pro

[GunpointMetal]

So, tell me, if you had NO restrictions. Space, volume, money, etc.... would you prefer to play through 2 halfstacks, or through IEMs?

I think where I always question it, is because there is always a condition of "well, in this situation" or, "for the money", or "portability".etc... There is always a compromise vs. what you would really do if there were no restrictions.

My dream rig right now would be a powered 3-way tower on either side of the drummer with guitar and bass evenly distributed across the stage at high volume for performance. I would rather have a $30k PA to play guitar through than a $30k wall of amps/cabs, money and space being disregarded. For me “feel” is more about playing the right notes at the right time over what kind of density the air is wiggling at me from behind. If I had all the money and space in the world I would probably have a couple of nice tube half stacks, but I would probably still play a modeler into an IR into a finely tuned FOH system for fun more often. After the gain/distortion from a preamp I’ve grown to mostly dislike how poorly designed guitar gear is for a playback system.
Back OT: The TMP looks like a toy and wouldn’t work for me because of its hindered design and my preferences, the UI is corny IMO, and their IR implementation is amateur hour IMO, but it’s working for Fender and more competition in that space is good for everyone who likes modeling. Still should have hit the market at $1k.

 

[Shask]

My dream rig right now would be a powered 3-way tower on either side of the drummer with guitar and bass evenly distributed across the stage at high volume for performance. I would rather have a $30k PA to play guitar through than a $30k wall of amps/cabs, money and space being disregarded. For me “feel” is more about playing the right notes at the right time over what kind of density the air is wiggling at me from behind. If I had all the money and space in the world I would probably have a couple of nice tube half stacks, but I would probably still play a modeler into an IR into a finely tuned FOH system for fun more often. After the gain/distortion from a preamp I’ve grown to mostly dislike how poorly designed guitar gear is for a playback system.
Back OT: The TMP looks like a toy and wouldn’t work for me because of its hindered design and my preferences, the UI is corny IMO, and their IR implementation is amateur hour IMO, but it’s working for Fender and more competition in that space is good for everyone who likes modeling. Still should have hit the market at $1k.

I think we have discussed this before, but basically your dream is about the band and how they sound altogether, rather than your personal enjoyment of playing. Do you never play by yourself at home?

 

[GunpointMetal]

I think we have discussed this before, but basically your dream is about the band and how they sound altogether, rather than your personal enjoyment of playing. Do you never play by yourself at home?

All the time. But I rarely play guitar without something else behind it, whether its my tracks, backing tracks, band songs, etc. I have a PA wedge on the floor next to my desk, a decent 2.1 monitor set, several nice headphone options and all of them are enjoyable when I'm playing by myself. I'm not a noodler by any means, though. Even if I'm just jamming ideas out for possible songs I'm pretty locked into the DAW and throwing drums/bass/clicks etc at my riffs so if I do hit something I like it's ready for documentation and replay. Too many cool ideas lost to the winds of time over the years. But none of that has anything to do with an amp/modeler/speaker system at all. Sounding good is feeling good for me when I'm playing, and "finished" guitar tones sound the best to me at this point.

 

[Shask]

All the time. But I rarely play guitar without something else behind it, whether its my tracks, backing tracks, band songs, etc. I have a PA wedge on the floor next to my desk, a decent 2.1 monitor set, several nice headphone options and all of them are enjoyable when I'm playing by myself. I'm not a noodler by any means, though. Even if I'm just jamming ideas out for possible songs I'm pretty locked into the DAW and throwing drums/bass/clicks etc at my riffs so if I do hit something I like it's ready for documentation and replay. Too many cool ideas lost to the winds of time over the years. But none of that has anything to do with an amp/modeler/speaker system at all. Sounding good is feeling good for me when I'm playing, and "finished" guitar tones sound the best to me at this point.

I do agree that when you are playing along with something the tone and feel dont matter as much. You just dont notice the subtleties as much.

For some reason I always plan on doing this, but I never do. I have drum software I could play with, or with albums or whatever, but most of the time I dont want to mess with it. I just like to pick up a guitar and play whatever, without being locked into a structure.

 

[GunpointMetal]

I do agree that when you are playing along with something the tone and feel dont matter as much. You just dont notice the subtleties as much.

For some reason I always plan on doing this, but I never do. I have drum software I could play with, or with albums or whatever, but most of the time I dont want to mess with it. I just like to pick up a guitar and play whatever, without being locked into a structure.

It's all different folks/different strokes. I would never tell someone else their doing it wrong (seriously, for funsies on the internet, definitely) so I do get a little argumentative when other musicians are like "This is how you do it, this is the gear you're supposed to use, this is how this works". I don't particularly enjoy music that doesn't go somewhere so I don't particularly enjoy playing music that isn't going somewhere. The first couple of bands I was in as a kid had at least one or two members that loved to "jam" and there's nothing enjoyable for me about wandering aimlessly for extended periods of time or spending hours nailing down the nuances of two measures of music when we could decide on what the part is going to be and move on to writing the next part. Whether it's realistic or not, that's what it feels like to me when I'm playing by myself without intent.

 

[Jon Pearson]

It's all different folks/different strokes. I would never tell someone else their doing it wrong (seriously, for funsies on the internet, definitely) so I do get a little argumentative when other musicians are like "This is how you do it, this is the gear you're supposed to use, this is how this works". I don't particularly enjoy music that doesn't go somewhere so I don't particularly enjoy playing music that isn't going somewhere. The first couple of bands I was in as a kid had at least one or two members that loved to "jam" and there's nothing enjoyable for me about wandering aimlessly for extended periods of time or spending hours nailing down the nuances of two measures of music when we could decide on what the part is going to be and move on to writing the next part. Whether it's realistic or not, that's what it feels like to me when I'm playing by myself without intent.

I've gotten a lot more like this in recent times - I actually prefer practicing something than just noodling. The one downside there is that noodling has always been my main way to write new music - now I have to make time to BS a bit so I can develop new material

 

[Hollowway]

When I was gigging I would always use a modeler through a cheap 112. But at home I’ve always had a nice tube amp. These days I have a few nice amps and a 412 and 112. I MUCH prefer playing through a cab at home, just because it’s way more fun, and I write better that way. I do spend a decent amount of time with headphones on (when I need to be quiet) but I really don’t like it. I can’t really say why, but it’s just not as fun or inspiring for me, generally. I’m wondering if it’s because of what you guys are saying about how IRs work, or if it’s just having something in/on the ears.

Like, maybe someone could make an IR with two mics, placed 6 inches apart, and several feet from the cab. That would simulate someone’s ears. I wonder if that would sound better in headphones. Or maybe just one “in room” mic and then run that through the FRFR?

 

[GunpointMetal]

When I was gigging I would always use a modeler through a cheap 112. But at home I’ve always had a nice tube amp. These days I have a few nice amps and a 412 and 112. I MUCH prefer playing through a cab at home, just because it’s way more fun, and I write better that way. I do spend a decent amount of time with headphones on (when I need to be quiet) but I really don’t like it. I can’t really say why, but it’s just not as fun or inspiring for me, generally. I’m wondering if it’s because of what you guys are saying about how IRs work, or if it’s just having something in/on the ears.

Like, maybe someone could make an IR with two mics, placed 6 inches apart, and several feet from the cab. That would simulate someone’s ears. I wonder if that would sound better in headphones. Or maybe just one “in room” mic and then run that through the FRFR?

There are a few far-field IR options. I’m not a fan, they sound weird through FOH in my opinion, but for jamming it might be cool.

 

[budda]

@Hollowway fractal has free far field ir’s.

 

[TedEH]

Far-field IRs are one thing, but it sounds like he was describing something more like a binaural IR.

 

[Hollowway]

Far-field IRs are one thing, but it sounds like he was describing something more like a binaural IR.

Yeah, I didn't know either was a thing. @GunpointMetal I would think far field IRs would sound weird through FOH just because usually we'd mic a cab and send that to FOH. So in that case a regular IR would sound best. But have you ever used one for in-room playing, like at home or band practice? I'm wondering if that would sound like an actual amp into a cab, under those circumstances.

When I listen to a YT demo, the mic'ed cabs or IRs sound WAY better than when they switch over to in-room mics (like Ola does sometimes, just to get that sound demoed) but when I'm in the room with an actual cab, it sounds way better than it does when someone records it that way. I have no idea why. Like idk if it's got to do with the frequencies picked up and recorded and reproduced on my end, or if it's a fletcher Munson thing, or what.

 

[Shask]

Saw this video this morning, and I think this is a good take on this stuff.

Ken is using a poweramp and cab when playing alone, but the direct sound sounds fine when playing with the backing tracks.

 

[budda]

Yeah, I didn't know either was a thing. @GunpointMetal I would think far field IRs would sound weird through FOH just because usually we'd mic a cab and send that to FOH. So in that case a regular IR would sound best. But have you ever used one for in-room playing, like at home or band practice? I'm wondering if that would sound like an actual amp into a cab, under those circumstances.

When I listen to a YT demo, the mic'ed cabs or IRs sound WAY better than when they switch over to in-room mics (like Ola does sometimes, just to get that sound demoed) but when I'm in the room with an actual cab, it sounds way better than it does when someone records it that way. I have no idea why. Like idk if it's got to do with the frequencies picked up and recorded and reproduced on my end, or if it's a fletcher Munson thing, or what.

When you're in the room with a cab, your head isnt at speaker level is it?

 

[TedEH]

I'm not entirely sure if binaural IRs on their own are "a thing" either, but conceptually there's no reason they couldn't be. That's sort of what a binauralizer does. Without knowing any better, I would assume that an HRTF is actually a pair of IRs. I'm making a lot of assumptions though.

 

[Hollowway]

When you're in the room with a cab, your head isnt at speaker level is it?

Not usually. I used to use a tip-back amp stand, but now I use a 412 slant top, OR a 112 on the floor.

Are you saying that the in-room mics are typically at speaker level? I hadn't thought about that.