Fortin Natas or Solar Chug?

[DECEMBER]

For tight chugs without the need of an overdrive? With an LP with EMG 81X/60X. Into a Line 6 Flextone III XL with many clean amp models and an FX loop so I could use the pedal as a preamp. I also have a Peavey Invective MH and Revv G20, but I think they sound like garbage compared to the Flextone, but a preamp pedal may sound good going into the FX return to just use the tube power amp.
I get a lot of noise in my apartment, so the gate in the Chug is very appealing. But the mid shift on the Natas is appealing. Though it's $100 more and no gate. I have a Precision Drive with the built-in gate, which works great, but I'm hoping to not need the overdrive with this, so I'd also have to buy a separate gate pedal on top of the $300.
I wish I could just try both, but they're only available from the manufacturers and the Chug comes from Europe...

 

[ExMachina]

Has a comparo at the end.

 

[Roadsterjosh]

Can you get a heavy tone on the Flextone that you like? I haven't played one in years but I toured a long time with the POD pro and never felt like I was missing anything.

What do you not like about the Invective or the Revv?

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

Has a comparo at the end.

Yeah this makes me want to check out the Chug even more lol

 

[DECEMBER]

Can you get a heavy tone on the Flextone that you like? I haven't played one in years but I toured a long time with the POD pro and never felt like I was missing anything.

What do you not like about the Invective or the Revv?

Invective MH is tubby, muddy harsh, and noisy, with excessive fluffy mids.
G20 has extremely thick and loose low end, also muddy, also with excessive mids. It's got the honky/quacky mids even with the mids knob at 0.
And they're both really fizzy, in spite of also being muddy.
The Line 6 Insane on the Flextone sounds a lot better, less fizz, but it's still got that fluffy sound from ~500-600Hz that I can't EQ out. And if I put the bass above 30%, it gets really woofy and muddy. Pretty much all the other high gain models have excessive muddy bass, even with it at 0.
The best high gain tone I'm getting is from a Revv G4 into the 'British Bass' clean model, but the G4 is like the G20 with extremely thick, loose and muddy low end, though the mids sound better. But I have to use a Friedman Buxom Boost AND Precision Drive in front of the G4 to even get it remotely tight, but even still the bass is just so woofy, and my rig is already extremely noisy, even with active EMGs, so having 3 pedals stacked gets harsh.
I'm hoping to get a pedal that does tight sharp chugs without needing an overdrive, that will record well with mics (the excessive bass is even more of a problem thru mics).
And I have to have a gate, so ideally the pedal has one, like Chug. My only gate is the one in the Precision Drive, so if I got the Natas I'd have to also buy a gate, unless it needs the PD in front
I got a coupon so Natas would be $285 shipped and Chug is $200 shipped. I'm down for either price but I don't know if the extra $85 plus buying a gate will be worth it.
After watching demos again today I'm actually leaning towards the Chug, but no demo really tells me how it will sound in my rig.
Natas has more control over the mids, but I don't like where its mid boost is... it's in that fluffy ~500Hz area. Chug has more control over the bass, with resonance and bass, but only the mids knob, and the range doesn't sound very usable... it sounds like there'd be one spot where it works and that's it. One reviewer said it doesn't get along with boosts, but another had a TS in front of it.
I wish stores would carry this stuff. I'd like to try them both then return one, but the Chug is coming from Europe... I have a lot of available credit but I'm broke af, on SSDI, so I don't have money to throw around. But I'm just sick of the muddy and abrasive recordings I'm getting.

 

[MatrixClaw]

I liked the Flextone amps back in the day, but if you think it's better than the Invective MH, I suspect your problem is whatever cab you're running it through because the Invective should stomp all over that Flextone.

 

[Kosthrash]

Joyo Chopper z with $70... Has a gate & boost onboard

 

[DECEMBER]

Joyo Chopper z with $70... Has a gate & boost onboard

It's between the Chug and Natas. I'm not going cheap. I record and take it seriously.

 

[DECEMBER]

I liked the Flextone amps back in the day, but if you think it's better than the Invective MH, I suspect your problem is whatever cab you're running it through because the Invective should stomp all over that Flextone.

I have an Eminence DV-77 and GA10-SC64, a Celestion G12H-75 Creamback, G12L, and the 2 Celestions in the Flextone, and the stock 12" in a Peavey ValveKing II 20 combo. The Invective sounds like trash thru all of them, with its own power amp or into the FX return of any of my other amps. It's muddy and tubby yet harsh and abrasive. It makes a bunch of hiss that sounds like a bad reverb. The bass is muddy. The mids are excessive. Have to put the treble to max to make it sound decent, but then it's getting harsh. I've tried a bunch of different preamp tubes and a new matched pair of Mesa EL84s. None of them made a significant difference.
The low end on the Flextone is so much more defined and thumpy, especially on a clean tone. It has so much more clarity and articulation without being harsh. And it's WAY less fizzy. Much less noise.
I was surprised. I had a Boss Katana and a few floor modelers and hated them. I thought I had given up on digital/modeling stuff. But I had an Epi LP Muse that I couldn't stand, just collecting dust, and I traded it for the Flextone. I have 2-3 amps hooked up at a time with several switches to do quick comparisons on the fly. I've spent days comparing all of my amps, thru every speaker/power amp combo I have, and the Flextone totally destroys all 4 of my 20W tube amps. Invective MH, ValveKing II 20 combo, G20, and a Marshall DSL20CR that I've since sold.

 

[owlexifry]

For tight chugs without the need of an overdrive?

maybe reconsider.

there's a reason almost every cunt out there uses one in front of a high gain amp.

It's between the Chug and Natas. I'm not going cheap. I record and take it seriously.

use software / plugins / VSTs / AUs / whatever works on your DAW

way more bang for buck than these overpriced pedals

 

[DECEMBER]

use software / plugins / VSTs / AUs whatever works on your DAW

way more bang for buck than these overpriced pedals

Wow. Again: it's between the Natas and Chug. I absolutely can't stand plugins/IRs/cab sims. I record amps with mics and use analog distortion. I'm totally down to spend $300 on the right pedal, I'm just trying to get feedback from anyone that has them as to which one is the better choice for my needs.

 

[Kosthrash]

The amps & pedals you already have can do gain for days... I believe what you really need is an eq pedal in the fx loop to finetune your tone and cut/ boost some frequencies. My 2 cents...

 

[owlexifry]

Wow. Again: it's between the Natas and Chug. I absolutely can't stand plugins/IRs/cab sims. I record amps with mics and use analog distortion. I'm totally down to spend $300 on the right pedal, I'm just trying to get feedback from anyone that has them as to which one is the better choice for my needs.

fair enough.
i can respect the analog quest.

but i will never understand the mentality that using an overdrive to aid articulation/tightness is somehow an undesirable thing to do.
it’s like asking yourself to go and do a marathon with no shoes. why make it harder for yourself?

regarding your gate issue, why not just use your precision drive as a clean boost (gain zero) and the gate that it has?

then you can choose whatever distortion pedal you want.

but are you really expecting a 9V solid state pedal to sound better than your tube amps?
honestly it sounds like you haven’t given them a fair go.

and what drives / boosts have you actually tried in front of them?
i would bet that they would all sound way better with an overdrive boosting them.
it’s almost always the case.
and depending on the amp, some overdrives boost better than others. definitely worth looking into.

 

[Kosthrash]

You could also try the emg 18v mod for free, for less mids and... fuller sound & dynamics

But again, since you need to record, an 8 band eq pedal (ideally with volume control like the Artec se-eq8) in the effects loop of the amp will help you sculpture your high gain tone (you know these 500hz frequencies you mention above )

 

[DECEMBER]

You could also try the emg 18v mod for free, for less mids and... fuller sound & dynamics

But again, since you need to record, an 8 band eq pedal (ideally with volume control like the Artec se-eq8) in the effects loop of the amp will help you sculpture your high gain tone (you know these 500hz frequencies you mention above )

I have my EMGs on 18V with a VMC, EXG, and ABCX.
I also have a 10 band fully parametric EQ in the FX loop. Even with that, I cannot EQ the mids to be properly balanced with any of these tube amps.
I got the Flextone sounding right, with a couple of its high gain models and a G4 on a clean model, but it's still lacking clarity, and the G4 just has excessive and loose bass.

 

[Antiproduct]

Out of these two options, I would recommend the Chug, solely because of the noise gate.
If you already have problems with excessive noise, I would use as few extra pedals as possible and if you don't like your precision drive, the only option left is the Chug.

Apparently you have a different idea of what "tight" is or you haven't found the right settings for your amps yet. Having to use a Friedman BB AND a precision drive to get the sound even halfway tight is extremely unusual.
The Invective is indeed a bit fizzy, and the size doesn't really help. But the amp should be tight without a pedal, even with low output pickups

 

[DECEMBER]

fair enough.
i can respect the analog quest.

but i will never understand the mentality that using an overdrive to aid articulation/tightness is somehow an undesirable thing to do.
it’s like asking yourself to go and do a marathon with no shoes. why make it harder for yourself?

regarding your gate issue, why not just use your precision drive as a clean boost (gain zero) and the gate that it has?

then you can choose whatever distortion pedal you want.

but are you really expecting a 9V solid state pedal to sound better than your tube amps?
honestly it sounds like you haven’t given them a fair go.

and what drives / boosts have you actually tried in front of them?
i would bet that they would all sound way better with an overdrive boosting them.
it’s almost always the case.
and depending on the amp, some overdrives boost better than others. definitely worth looking into.

Did you miss the part about the excessive noise in my apartment? If I can get the sound without an overdrive, that's preferable. The more gain stages, the more noise. I have a power conditioner, Cioks for the pedals, Hum Exterminators, Hum Eliminators, several line isolators w/ground lifts, ferrite beads on every power, audio, and USB cable, and copper shielding tape in the guitar cavities, and nothing helps. Active EMGs, yet still a ton of noise from the pickups. I have to have a second gate at the end of the FX loop. But when I plug in at a guitar shop, it's as quiet as a guitar could ever be. So it's definitely my apartment, excessive EM/RF pollution, dirty power, whatever... nothing I can do about it.
The Precision Drive cannot do a clean boost. It colors the tone just by being on, and the Attack knob has to be at max for it to not cause a gain boost. So if one of these pedals is already tight enough, then putting the PD in front with the Attack knob maxed will just chop off all the low end. And it does a mid boost in the frequencies I don't like. I'd prefer it to be between 600-800Hz instead of ~450-550Hz.
I use the PD in front of everything, I've had many distortion pedals and 4 high gain tube amps. With the G4, the bass is so excessive and loose that I also need the Buxom Boost in front of the PD for the Tight knob to cut even more low end. All the tube amps are really fizzy, muddy, tubby, and have excessive mids... really wonky sounding mids, all airy, boxy, squawky, fluffy, etc
Yes, the Line 6 Flextone III XL, old obsolete modeling amp, sounds immensely better than all 4 of these tube amps. A couple of its high gain models are infinitely better than the tube amps, and the G4 thru clean is better than its high gain models. But the G4 EQ profile is just wrong. So, yeah, the right distortion pedal is certainly the solution.
Read my previous post, I describe the differences between the tube amps and the Flextone. Spent the past 2 years trying them thru many different speakers and mics, and every possible combination. I was not getting usable recordings that sounded the way I need until I got the Flextone. And now it's just a matter of getting my distortion sound to be tighter and sharper, which is exactly how the Chug sounds in demos. The Natas is actually sounding like it's got more mids than I want in the frequencies I don't want. But it's so hard to tell in YT videos thru amps that are nothing like mine.
So it really is down to one decision: Natas or Chug? Since I can't try them myself, I was hoping to get feedback from actual owners, but once again I've gotten no useful information from any group or forum. Just people telling me to do what I've already done, or to use something completely irrelevant. It really was a simple question: Natas or Chug? But the only comment I've got re: this was a video I've already seen that does a really bad "comparison" of the two. It doesn't even A/B them, the volume is way louder on one, and I think it's even plugged into the amp in a different way.
But after 4 not-cheap tube amps, $100s on trying different tubes (which really make no difference), and $100s on several speaker "upgrades", I'm giving up on tube amps, unless and until I ever become able to get something with 100W and a 4x12, which will never be an option in an apartment.

 

[DECEMBER]

Out of these two options, I would recommend the Chug, solely because of the noise gate.
If you already have problems with excessive noise, I would use as few extra pedals as possible and if you don't like your precision drive, the only option left is the Chug.

Apparently you have a different idea of what "tight" is or you haven't found the right settings for your amps yet. Having to use a Friedman BB AND a precision drive to get the sound even halfway tight is extremely unusual.
The Invective is indeed a bit fizzy, and the size doesn't really help. But the amp should be tight without a pedal, even with low output pickups

The Invective is tight, it chugs... but it's muddy, tubby, fizzy and hissy, and has excessive mids that sound really wonky and can't be EQd out. It's the Revv G4 pedal that needs the PD and BB for the extra Tight knob, and it's still loose and woofy... very fuzz-like (deep, dark, and undefined, a little buzzy) The G4 and G20 amp really do have an extremely thick and loose low end. It's like the resonance is maxed out, but the amp doesn't have a resonance control to correct it.
After watching demos again today, I am leaning towards the Chug. More control over the bass, which is where I have a hard time with recording. Natas has more control over the mids, but the mid boost isn't where I would like it. And having to put the PD in front to use the gate would add more to that same midrange.

 

[Antiproduct]

A little off-topic, but have you tried testing outside your apartment, but in your apartment block, to see if the noise persists? Unfortunately, I don't know which continent or country you are from or what your living conditions are like at the moment, i.e. where the noise pollution is coming from. It may still be possible to fix it if it is due to your apartment. Or it could be a defective power distribution system near your block of flats.

I'm sorry if I can only help you to a limited extent with your choice, but it sounds a bit like your two options aren't really suitable for what you're looking for.

 

[DECEMBER]

A little off-topic, but have you tried testing outside your apartment, but in your apartment block, to see if the noise persists? Unfortunately, I don't know which continent or country you are from or what your living conditions are like at the moment, i.e. where the noise pollution is coming from. It may still be possible to fix it if it is due to your apartment. Or it could be a defective power distribution system near your block of flats.

I'm sorry if I can only help you to a limited extent with your choice, but it sounds a bit like your two options aren't really suitable for what you're looking for.

The guitar is as quiet as a guitar can be when I plug into a high gain amp at a guitar shop without a gate. But no, I'm the weirdo tranny empath with Tourette's syndrome, so I don't have any neighbor friends, so I can't try the power in another apartment. I'm pretty out of place here in the suburbs. But at least my neighbors are very tolerant of the music and I can play at a decent volume to record with mics.
I have power conditioners and every other noise-reduction device. With active EMGs and 2 gates, the noise is manageable. But passive humbuckers are too noisy for high gain and single coils are too noisy even for clean.
That's why I want a high gain pedal that doesn't need an overdrive ideally with a built-in gate.
Oh, I'm in Oregon, USA. 1970s apartment building.