Harley Davidson to move jobs overseas in response to Trump tariffs

[DownToEarthAudio]

This irony could not be any sweeter. Make America Great again...?

TL;DR to get around the EU steal tariffs, Harley is opening a factory in the EU. Which will move jobs out of America.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/business/harley-davidson-us-eu-tariffs.html

 

[vilk]

I'm in the manufacturing industry, which if you couldn't guess is overwhelmingly conservative. These guys were/are all totally convinced that electing Trump would magically turn the United States in to a huge manufacturing center, that we were going to blow up with new factories and all kinds of tax break programs to build them.

And as someone who dislikes virtually 100% of Trump's phony-bologna platform, I was at least comforted by the idea that my vocational life might see some improvement, that my company might start doing better with the new increase in manufacturing.

And then every article I see is about factories moving out of the USA. Ford. Carrier. Harley.

Is it just a "evil Jewish Media" trick (/sarcasm)? Besides these big names that get in the news for moving overseas, has manufacturing being doing well otherwise? Honestly I haven't really noticed any uptick in business, but then again in my position I don't often look at our quarterly earnings as compared with last year or 2 years ago etc.

 

[ElRay]

{sarcasm-moden}
Fake news. Can’t possibly be true. Trump’s business sense is yuge. He’s smarter than reality. Reality has a known Liberal bias. It’s ‘Bama’s fault. Roll tide!
{sarcasm-modeff}

 

[diagrammatiks]

The majority of trump supporters don’t understand the realities of manufacturing or that big multinational companies require significant foreign market comsumption in order to survive.

 

[NateFalcon]

Who cares?...Harley Davidsons are complete archaic pieces of shit...lol (flameshield)

I’m usually a proponent of USA made stuff but HD needs to steer it’s disgusting image right into the shitter...it’s times like these I miss George Carlin...

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Harley Davidsons are complete archaic pieces of shit

As a Milwaukee resident for the past 8 years. I completely agree. Absolute junk compared to what's on the market, for a ridiculous premium.

There are so many out here so pricing isn't too bad compared to the rest of the country.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Who cares?

The Americans whose jobs are being moved overseas, I imagine.

 

[NateFalcon]

The Americans whose jobs are being moved overseas, I imagine.

I totally agree on that front, I just think HD is far behind the times as far as design and quality and consumers certainly deserve better for their money. Hell, i’d even throw some blinkers on any dirt bike (any Japanese Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha etc.) and be miles ahead in design, handling, braking, comfort...not being broke down on the side of the road. Gearboxes, ignition systems...I could go on and on about Harleys’ HIGHLY inferior downfalls. Any production crotch rocket under the sun will destroy any production Harley in absolutely EVERY category besides torque/power across the board. No offense...they certainly appeal to a certain demographic -but don’t kid yourself, they’re the motorcycle equivalent of ‘cup and ball’...

 

[Yul Brynner]

I totally agree on that front, I just think HD is far behind the times as far as design and quality and consumers certainly deserve better for their money. Hell, i’d even throw some blinkers on any dirt bike (any Japanese Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha etc.) and be miles ahead in design, handling, braking, comfort...not being broke down on the side of the road. Gearboxes, ignition systems...I could go on and on about Harleys’ HIGHLY inferior downfalls. Any production crotch rocket under the sun will destroy any production Harley in absolutely EVERY category besides torque/power across the board. No offense...they certainly appeal to a certain demographic -but don’t kid yourself, they’re the motorcycle equivalent of ‘cup and ball’...

Harley is like the Gibson of motorcycles. They make classic shit and that is what a lot of people want.

 

[Edika]

Similar situation with Brexit here. A few companies moved factories already and others have clearly stated that they will if there's not any type of free trade agreement with the EU. There aren't many manufacturing companies that are if UK origin and if you consider the global market that doesn't really have any value. All multinational companies have their headquarters in countries that have better taxation regardless if they have plants in first world countries (and a lot more in developing countries).

I can understand trying to incentivise companies to open more plants in the US but this is not the way to do it. No comment about the quality of HD, this is a different subject from the main theme. Whatever quality people still buy them and they have a reputation. So loosing a few thousand jobs of skilled workers is not a good thing.

 

[bostjan]

Besides these big names that get in the news for moving overseas, has manufacturing being doing well otherwise?

Probably not "well," really. The first year of Trump saw manufacturing job growth of a little over 1%, on par with the previous trend. I don't think anyone steeped in reality is going to claim that's anything special due to policy, nor that one year of new leadership will have an immediate impact on the economy, typically.

The big thing was 2008-2009, when manufacturing jobs dropped to a level lower than they had been since basically World War II:

The USA had already been moving resources away from manufacturing, but, with everything else that was going on in 2008-2009, the economy went into recession and manufacturing was hit particularly hard, because it is a sector that involves a lot of cost and works on thinner margins in a global economy.

When the numbers for 2018 come out (which probably won't be for nearly a year from now), we'll get a better gauge on where the new policies are taking this country. Policies tend to take a few months to really go into effect, a few months more to really impact things, and then it takes several more months for the numbers to hit the public, so, you're looking at 2-3 years for something of this scale to really paint a picture.

 

[Drew]

Off topic - isn't the FRED database amazing?

 

[Andromalia]

I'm in the manufacturing industry, which if you couldn't guess is overwhelmingly conservative. These guys were/are all totally convinced that electing Trump would magically turn the United States in to a huge manufacturing center, that we were going to blow up with new factories and all kinds of tax break programs to build them.

Meanwhile, with the steel tariffs, the biggest nail factory in the US is going to relocate in Mexico. Well played Trump.

 

[dark_vader]

The majority of trump supporters don’t understand the realities of manufacturing or that big multinational companies require significant foreign market comsumption in order to survive.

Oh, so you've met every Trump supporter, surveyed them, and have done the math then? What's that? Oh, you were just being hyperbolic.

 

[Hollowway]

Oh, so you've met every Trump supporter, surveyed them, and have done the math then? What's that? Oh, you were just being hyperbolic.

Eh, I think he probably hasn’t done a huge amount of research to back up that statement, but it’s likely true. Trump’s base majority is white with no college degree who consider foreign policy and economy less important than immigration and terrorism. So while you’re probably right, in your own hyperbolic assessment that he hasn’t met each of the millions of Trump’s supporters, I think that it’s a bit of a stretch to call his statement hyperbolic. In fact, I’d be curious to know how anyone who DOES know about foreign policy and trade would find Trump’s tariffs a good idea. Pretty much every economist that I’ve read - irrespective of political affiliation - has indicated that the tariffs won’t have the effect he desires.

I will say that I’m 100% behind his vitriol for China’s openly hostile policy of demanding IP to enter their market. But I think this idea of unilaterally imposing tariffs on them - at the same time we are on our allies - is the wrong move. A concerted pressure with other countries in a team effort would work MUCH better, I’d think. And I can’t figure out why we haven’t tried that. Maybe other countries don’t have the same IP theft issues we do?

 

[dark_vader]

Eh, I think he probably hasn’t done a huge amount of research to back up that statement, but it’s likely true. Trump’s base majority is white with no college degree who consider foreign policy and economy less important than immigration and terrorism. So while you’re probably right, in your own hyperbolic assessment that he hasn’t met each of the millions of Trump’s supporters, I think that it’s a bit of a stretch to call his statement hyperbolic. In fact, I’d be curious to know how anyone who DOES know about foreign policy and trade would find Trump’s tariffs a good idea. Pretty much every economist that I’ve read - irrespective of political affiliation - has indicated that the tariffs won’t have the effect he desires.

I will say that I’m 100% behind his vitriol for China’s openly hostile policy of demanding IP to enter their market. But I think this idea of unilaterally imposing tariffs on them - at the same time we are on our allies - is the wrong move. A concerted pressure with other countries in a team effort would work MUCH better, I’d think. And I can’t figure out why we haven’t tried that. Maybe other countries don’t have the same IP theft issues we do?

The same economists that mocked the idea of 3% economic growth? Mkay.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

The same economists that mocked the idea of 3% economic growth? Mkay.

Cut the attitude.

 

[NateFalcon]

...and...there’s your response

 

[NateFalcon]

Watch it...any resemblance of anything questioning or disagreeing with the “in crowd’s” collective opinion on here will get you threatened with a ban...quickly. Saying this will probably get me threatened with a ban lol

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Watch it...any resemblance of anything questioning or disagreeing with the “in crowd’s” collective opinion on here will get you threatened with a ban...quickly. Saying this will probably get me threatened with a ban lol

1) Posting in OT/P&CE as your first post has always been a ban.

2) I didn't threaten a ban.

3) There's a difference between questioning and disagreeing and having an attitude about it. Try to remain civil.

4) You know most of this, you just want to kick shins because reasons.