Ibanez 2024 NAMM

[Crungy]

Tonewood isn't real/floyds are the best bridge to have ever been invented for an electric guitar /discussion

I'd like to add a footnote that includes the FX Edge if you're not using a trem but want double locking. Love it on my RGA8.

 

[SalsaWood]

Floyds in particular being true floating as opposed to simple vibrato bridge plates (none of them are actual tremolo mechanisms, but whatever) can take some folks by surprise. Depending on your tuning, number of strings, and string set it can be a royal motherfucker getting it dialed in. Plus hunting down general issues with the more complicated scheme can be hours of not fun. I have no issue with people who don't like full floating trems, but they are personally worth the extra time and cost. Especially for standard tuned sixes. I think everyone should have at least one floating trem guitar, properly implemented it invites a wonderful world of additional techniques.

 

[nightsprinter]

I'd like to add a footnote that includes the FX Edge if you're not using a trem but want double locking. Love it on my RGA8.

Fixed Lo Pro Edge

The Fixed Lo Pro Edge, also known as the FX Edge or Fixed Edge, is a guitar bridge developed and produced for Ibanez. It is essentially a hard-tail version of the Lo-Pro Edge tremolo, combining the tuning stability and feel of a double locking tremolo with the simplicity of a fixed bridge...

ibanez.fandom.com

I didn't know this was a thing at all. Great idea.
If the saddles were height adjustable, this would probably be the best bridge for me.

 

[odibrom]

(...)
If the saddles were height adjustable, this would probably be the best bridge for me.

... Individually only with shims...

 

[Metal-Box]

The correct amount of guitars to own is one more than you currently own, right?

This is a universal truth.

 

[NeglectedField]

I see plenty of folks who love them and play them well, but for me even with the proper set up, doing bends on them just doesn't work like it's supposed to? I didn't think I had an eccentric way of bending or anything but I'll be damned if I can get the things to behave correctly. This could be something coincident with the ones I've tried, but they also seemed to have a dullness to the sound. The concept is great, the best implementation of a mechanical means of auto-tuning.

I'm not inept, I'm inconsiderate.

As far as why or why not Evertune? Either, but it's mostly a solution in search of a problem. For me, which is who I care about, I don't need their extra mechanical engineering because my guitars stay in tune very well. Even the ones with floating bridges. There are compromises and consolations to all three different bridge types, most of them minor. I see the ET bridge as a fad, but it does what it claims.

These are fair.

Perhaps my infatuation with Evertune is firstly how some bad studio/recording experiences (e.g. working with a great but perfectionist producer) have made me incredibly neurotic - or given me a complex, so to speak - concerning tuning/intonation; since my bad experience, I look at my guitar recordings under the microscope, analysing every intonation imperfection (intonation is arguably as much about your playing as the setup); this is causing me to spend far too much time on stuff like comping the guitar takes for my next album. The second of course is the advantages on the road (albeit something I presently don't have to worry about), to a lesser extent. It at least sounds like people are absolutely loving it from a recording perspective as it largely eliminates the former problems.

However, there is what effect the whole strings sitting on a pivot dealy balanced by springs potentially has on tone, the tactile sensation under your palm versus say a Hipshot bridge, and the bending thing. It seems that even though you can adjust the 'give' of each string to bending, there is that apparently different bending behaviour, even on the loosest setting. This suggests its big advantage is limited to guitar parts involving no bending at all, where your picking or fretting might otherwise make notes go a few cents or so sharp.

I guess at the end of the day, we've just had decades of popular music with guitars that managed without that or frets that look like doctors' handwriting. Guitars being these planks of wood of an arbitrary scale length, with strings of different thicknesses stretched over them, straight frets positioned as close as possible to 12-tone equal temperament, with all the idiosyncrasies and intonation imperfections therein, etc etc, (you get the idea), and the Western layman's ear seems subconsciously more than accepting of that microtonal variance, if they even notice to begin with.

All the same, it's a neat invention, and I will monitor the long term experience of seasoned Evertune users with interest.

 

[odibrom]

These are fair.

Perhaps my infatuation with Evertune is firstly how some bad studio/recording experiences (e.g. working with a great but perfectionist producer) have made me incredibly neurotic - or given me a complex, so to speak - concerning tuning/intonation; since my bad experience, I look at my guitar recordings under the microscope, analysing every intonation imperfection (intonation is arguably as much about your playing as the setup); this is causing me to spend far too much time on stuff like comping the guitar takes for my next album. The second of course is the advantages on the road (albeit something I presently don't have to worry about), to a lesser extent. It at least sounds like people are absolutely loving it from a recording perspective as it largely eliminates the former problems.

However, there is what effect the whole strings sitting on a pivot dealy balanced by springs potentially has on tone, the tactile sensation under your palm versus say a Hipshot bridge, and the bending thing. It seems that even though you can adjust the 'give' of each string to bending, there is that apparently different bending behaviour, even on the loosest setting. This suggests its big advantage is limited to guitar parts involving no bending at all, where your picking or fretting might otherwise make notes go a few cents or so sharp.

I guess at the end of the day, we've just had decades of popular music with guitars that managed without that or frets that look like doctors' handwriting. Guitars being these planks of wood of an arbitrary scale length, with strings of different thicknesses stretched over them, straight frets positioned as close as possible to 12-tone equal temperament, with all the idiosyncrasies and intonation imperfections therein, etc etc, (you get the idea), and the Western layman's ear seems subconsciously more than accepting of that microtonal variance, if they even notice to begin with.

All the same, it's a neat invention, and I will monitor the long term experience of seasoned Evertune users with interest.

... in a way, the Evertune is one of those gadgets that solve a non existing problem... It's an interesting piece of engineering that balances strengths on a stretched string with a bunch of stretched springs, but so is a vibrato, either floating, Fender like or whatever else there is... However, those feel more useful to me than the previous, I'm yet to hear a surprising usage of this thing to a point that it can't be done with anything else. To each his own I guess...?

 

[gh0styboi]

I'm inclined to agree that the Evertune kinda fabricates a problem to solve. If you know how to set your guitar up and take care of it well, the issues an Evertune solves don't really exist.

I think it's an interesting idea, but for me, it just over-complicates things unnecessarily.

 

[nightsprinter]

I'm not the biggest evertune guy by any means, but I can see it being beneficial for a person doing rhythm tracking in a low tuning that loves light gauge strings but doesn't want pitch drifts with hard playing. Idk.

 

[JimF]

"The Evertune solves a problem that doesn't exist"

Yes, if you view it as a device that means you don't have to tune your guitar for weeks on end, but for me, in a recording situation, having endured the EXACT same experience as @NeglectedField . The problem is very real and very solved by the Evertune.

I can only speak for myself, and likewise the people that don't see the appeal can only speak for their own needs, but for me:

Pitch drift: I'm a heavy picker. I get pitch drift when playing lower frets on lower strings. Yes I could pick softer, or use thicker strings, but I don't want to. I can play these things carefully and not "over-play", but I don't want to. The Evertune means I can be as ham fisted as I want, and pick with Hulk strength, and the notes don't go sharp. Conversely there's an argument that the Evertune affects the attack of the note, so only time will tell whether that negates the solving of the pitch drift.

Tuning Stability: During recording sessions I've developed a picky ear. Again, not saying I'm God's gift to pitch recognition, but I'm better than I was, and I notice things that I don't like sometimes, and that I didn't notice in the past. There have been times when tracking and retracking certain parts, that neither myself nor my bassist (who records us) have picked up on tuning issues until we've listened back to that track in the mix. The guitar may have been perfectly in tune with itself, but a few cents flat. It's nice to have one less thing to worry about when recording. Is it a vital requirement? Not really, but its a nice luxury to have (akin to recording plain DI tracks and setting a guitar tone after the fact to ensure it fits in the mix). We record in our spare time as a hobby. We don't have a week to get a guitar tone using several different amps. Likewise we don't have weeks on end to track and retrack guitar parts.

Improved Intonation (Or for those pernickety people who like to point it out)
The Illusion of Improved Intonation: Is it my guitar setup? Playing style? Fretting hand pressure? String choice? Potentially, but with a guitar tuned to open strings, chords played up the neck have some duff notes in them. As a bit of a side effect of the Evertune balancing the tension to keep notes at the correct pitch, is that the notes for chords played up the neck are sweetened and spot on. Of course the intonation hasn't changed a bit, the bridge has just compensated for the sharp/flat notes. Could I have simply tuned to the fretted notes for that section before we recorded? Of course. But now I don't need to. People have made albums for years by tuning to the chord, recording section by section, using sweetened tunings, not caring etc, But here is a device that has meant I don't need to do that, I can just use the guitar I've been using all week, and just check its still in tune at the start of a session, and that the strings are in the correct zones.

It's definitely a luxury, but for me it addresses some very real problems.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Yes, if you view it as a device that means you don't have to tune your guitar for weeks on end, but for me, in a recording situation, having endured the EXACT same experience as @NeglectedField . The problem is very real and very solved by the Evertune.

I can only speak for myself, and likewise the people that don't see the appeal can only speak for their own needs, but for me:

Pitch drift: I'm a heavy picker. I get pitch drift when playing lower frets on lower strings. Yes I could pick softer, or use thicker strings, but I don't want to. I can play these things carefully and not "over-play", but I don't want to. The Evertune means I can be as ham fisted as I want, and pick with Hulk strength, and the notes don't go sharp. Conversely there's an argument that the Evertune affects the attack of the note, so only time will tell whether that negates the solving of the pitch drift.

Tuning Stability: During recording sessions I've developed a picky ear. Again, not saying I'm God's gift to pitch recognition, but I'm better than I was, and I notice things that I don't like sometimes, and that I didn't notice in the past. There have been times when tracking and retracking certain parts, that neither myself nor my bassist (who records us) have picked up on tuning issues until we've listened back to that track in the mix. The guitar may have been perfectly in tune with itself, but a few cents flat. It's nice to have one less thing to worry about when recording. Is it a vital requirement? Not really, but its a nice luxury to have (akin to recording plain DI tracks and setting a guitar tone after the fact to ensure it fits in the mix). We record in our spare time as a hobby. We don't have a week to get a guitar tone using several different amps. Likewise we don't have weeks on end to track and retrack guitar parts.

Improved Intonation (Or for those pernickety people who like to point it out)
The Illusion of Improved Intonation: Is it my guitar setup? Playing style? Fretting hand pressure? String choice? Potentially, but with a guitar tuned to open strings, chords played up the neck have some duff notes in them. As a bit of a side effect of the Evertune balancing the tension to keep notes at the correct pitch, is that the notes for chords played up the neck are sweetened and spot on. Of course the intonation hasn't changed a bit, the bridge has just compensated for the sharp/flat notes. Could I have simply tuned to the fretted notes for that section before we recorded? Of course. But now I don't need to. People have made albums for years by tuning to the chord, recording section by section, using sweetened tunings, not caring etc, But here is a device that has meant I don't need to do that, I can just use the guitar I've been using all week, and just check its still in tune at the start of a session, and that the strings are in the correct zones.

It's definitely a luxury, but for me it addresses some very real problems.

YES!!!!!!!!! ALL OF THIS!!!!!!!!

I made this quick clip when someone on TGP was doing the “it creates a problem it tries to solve thing”

Pick up any guitar and try doing this with it-


It’s just maj/min chords up the neck and then ends with an E chord being played in every octave on the neck at the same time, with nothing out of tune.

The majority of people don’t give a shit if they’re guitar goes a few cents out of tune, some of us do, particularly when recording. The second you get 2 guitars that are off by a couple cents you get that chorus/detune effect with tracking guitars. If I want that effect, I’ll do it intentionally.

Stopping between every take to check the tuning maybe only takes 8-10 seconds if it doesn’t need to be tuned, but you start fine tuning strings after each take and that 10 seconds turns into 60 seconds. I spend full days in my studio on the weekends recording, hundreds of takes can happen in a day and that 10-60 seconds adds up QUICK.

 

[JimF]

Yep! When I've taken 3 days holiday off work and travelled 300 miles to my buddy's house, re-tuning a floating bridge over and over again for chords adds an infuriating amount of time to proceedings.
I've often wondered why Evertune don't lean into the whole sweetened intonation thing more in their marketing, its literally a version of True Temperament frets that works in every instance.

 

[Yul Brynner]

So basically this is a really expensive and invasive way of solving a problem that is easily solved by using proper string size and practicing technique for people who "just don't want to"?

 

[SalsaWood]

A few cents is pretty hugely out of tune/intonation for me personally. With properly set up intonation and fretting pressure I get one or two cents variance in intonation and absolutely zero variance in open string tunings at the end of a song. A few cents of your tuning can change with only which direction you are holding the guitar (vertical, tilted forward/away from your body, etc.), more if it's a floating bridge, or even the temperature of the strings. I know lots of guitars don't hold tune exceptionally well and are still great playing guitars, I have one and it might be my favorite guitar, but I don't do final tracking with it because of this shortcoming. When it comes to well constructed high dollar guitars I really don't see the point of the ET bridge across the board, but I absolutely admit the utility is there and improves tuning stability. Does it really matter when you talk about how good a guitar can get? I don't think so, but definitely when talking about low and mid range guitars it must help.

Then there's the matter of worrying about all that when you don't have TT frets, which actually addresses the problem instead of devising a complex bandaid for intonation. I don't really see the point in traditional fret and scale guitars without TT frets, but with an ET bridge. On top of all that, there's a ton of compromise and lack of options in regard to strings once you cross that threshold into TT. The whole ET thing seems like a lark to me, since I can use whatever strings on whatever stable guitar and get what sounds like the same results.

 

[JimF]

You talk about the Evertune being pointless without TT, but then state that TT is flawed...
From experience, the Evertune is doing the work of the TT, (i.e. adjust notes to the correct pitch) in a variable mechanical way based on tension rather than fret position.
Pass me a well constructed high end guitar, and I'll make the low E drift sharp under picking.
Also, regarding cost, I paid about $250 for my ET bridge to go into a CNC aftermarket RG body and a Prestige neck. How much is a Floyd Rose? I think the 1996T Gotoh is about $100 cheaper. Its not a cheap hobby, you have to pay to play. But its not like its a $750 upcharge.

 

[gh0styboi]

I don't know. I've got a 30" baritone six string tuned to D#1, and I have zero issues with the intonation set properly for a good set of strings. I can play chords and octaves all the way up the neck and have very little or no variance at all - and definitely not enough variance to add several hundred dollars onto a guitar for an ET.

Not saying it doesn't do anything, but for me personally, it doesn't do enough to warrant the extra price. I can resolve the issues it resolves with a quality setup and the correct string set for my tunings. If I'm getting a lot of string drift, I pick a little lighter or up my string gauge. If I'm palm muting too far from the saddles and it's going sharp, I adjust my hand. If I'm fretting sharp, I can lighten up my fret hand.

I feel like, a lot of times, what the ET actually does is correct technique issues. The application I absolutely understand is keeping things exactly as you set them with much less hassle in a studio setting. That stuff can definitely be resolved (assuming the guitar is mechanically sound) but adjusting how I play a bit or making sure it's got a correct setup, but it's nice to not have to worry about it when you're tracking - especially if you're doing a lot of layering.

But again, for me personally, it's just not enough of an improvement that I wanna pay several hundred extra bucks or mess around with a more complex mechanism for it.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Not giving a shit how cocky this comes off, anyone is free to go through all the vids and music I’ve posted and point out any improper technique or setup issues that are causing me to enjoy the Evertune.

I’ll give you a starting point-


I’ll wait.

 

[gh0styboi]

You won't have to wait long. I don't need to go through your videos to know that an Evertune isn't worth the extra cost to me because I don't have the issues it solves, or because I solve them in other ways. Congrats on the self-confidence and nut lube awareness, though.

 

[SalsaWood]

@JimF Those are really good points. I'm not against ETs or their utility, and I had forgotten those advantages of them. I don't see those things as huge concerns because my playing leans towards pretty sterile. I don't prefer ET bridges personally and they get installed on a lot of guitars I would otherwise opt for, that's the only reason I've become so take-it-or-leave it about them. If the bridge is doing all that I'm kind of wondering if it just turns other playing into sterile sounding as well, so it's again mostly pointless, but I don't know.

I do think TT frets are totally worth it, though. I just didn't mean to imply that they were the easier philosophy in contrast, but are a ground up solution and make a significant positive difference compared to ET bridges.

 

[JimF]

I'd still love to try a guitar with TT frets, I agree!