Is it me or does REAPER (DAW) sound muddy/congested/crammed/flat?

[IT'z Roberto]

I have been using reaper for about 2 years, chasing tones and mixing over and over. I can't seem to get it to sound crisp/clear without sounding harsh. But the biggest battle is not sounding congested and muddy. I have tried EQing, panning, stereo wideners, compression, etc etc. It just somehow sounds super congested regardless of what I do. Has anyone else dealt with this? Everything just sounds mashed together.

Interface: Focusrite Scarlett Solo

Gear used:
Jackson JS kelly with EMGs, LTD AX-50, Schecter C-8, Schecter Avenger 7

Plugins:
Neural DSP Gojira
Neural DSP Plini
Neural DSP Petrucci
Umansky Bass
Perfect Drums

 

[guitaardvark]

I've heard some really great mixes come out of Reaper and had no issues in the 10 years that I used it, but the easiest way to test this would be to download a free trial of another DAW and A/B them.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Reaper doesn’t sound like anything. What are you monitoring with?

 

[Grindspine]

After mixing, are you using any mastering tools? Mastering programs help put those finishing touches on a mix that make it pop, adding subtle EQ, compression, and sometimes enhancing gain as well. Using Lurrson Mastering on my mixes made them go from sounding raw to sounding polished.

IK Multimedia - Lurssen Mastering Console

Lurssen Mastering Console is an application for Mac/PC and iPhone/iPad designed to perform mastering of audio files using the process developed by Grammy Award winning mastering engineer Gavin Lurssen in his own studio.

www.ikmultimedia.com

 

[DudeManBrother]

I highly doubt it’s the daw. You probably just need to work on your mixing skills. Congested and muddy usually means too many low mids. It’s an easy area to build up, so try playing with that level on your instrument buses; and use the built in reaper oversampling on your compressors to avoid aliasing, which can also really congest a mix.

 

[AngstRiddenDreams]

I highly doubt it’s the daw. You probably just need to work on your mixing skills. Congested and muddy usually means too many low mids. It’s an easy area to build up, so try playing with that level on your instrument buses; and use the built in reaper oversampling on your compressors to avoid aliasing, which can also really congest a mix.

Can you elaborate on this? I've been mixing with Reaper forever and I have a fairly high performance computer, so I will gladly click a box to allow my mixes to sound better. Why compressors specifically? What settings should I be looking for?

 

[Lemonbaby]

If you can't swim, there must be something wrong with the trunks...

 

[Emperoff]

It's you. DAWs don't have any kind of built in sound coloration on their own.

 

[cindarkness]

Well, DAW's aren't like mixing consoles which have their own characteristic sound. They are completely transparent on their own.

Instead I'd ask which generation of Scarlett Solo do you have?

 

[IT'z Roberto]

Reaper doesn’t sound like anything. What are you monitoring with?

I use various things, 2.1 speakers (left, right, sub), headphones, computer, phone, car, etc. Ive tried to mix to get clarity on everything. It's probably my mixing skills overall. But I can say I pan hard left and right on guitars, center lead, center bass, center snare and kick, stereo widen cymbals, and somehow it still all sounds like it's mashed together. Like there isn't any separation.

 

[IT'z Roberto]

After mixing, are you using any mastering tools? Mastering programs help put those finishing touches on a mix that make it pop, adding subtle EQ, compression, and sometimes enhancing gain as well. Using Lurrson Mastering on my mixes made them go from sounding raw to sounding polished.

IK Multimedia - Lurssen Mastering Console

Lurssen Mastering Console is an application for Mac/PC and iPhone/iPad designed to perform mastering of audio files using the process developed by Grammy Award winning mastering engineer Gavin Lurssen in his own studio.

www.ikmultimedia.com

I haven't used anything besides EQ, neutron elements, ozone, and a limiter on the master bus.

 

[IT'z Roberto]

I highly doubt it’s the daw. You probably just need to work on your mixing skills. Congested and muddy usually means too many low mids. It’s an easy area to build up, so try playing with that level on your instrument buses; and use the built in reaper oversampling on your compressors to avoid aliasing, which can also really congest a mix.

I've tried cutting the guitars (including any reverb) up to 220hz and notching/dipping out 300-350hz. I sidechain the bass with the kick using the stock reacomp plugin. I'm not sure where the oversampling feature is located.

 

[IT'z Roberto]

If you can't swim, there must be something wrong with the trunks...

I mean, I'm sure it's my inability to swim(mix). However, I'm just confused to how everything sounds so congested, even when I hard pan instruments and highpass/lowpass instrument tracks individually.

 

[IT'z Roberto]

It's you. DAWs don't have any kind of built in sound coloration on their own.

Good to know, I did watch a video of logic vs protools vs reaper and logic sounded brighter. But they could have EQ'd then differently and claimed they had the same settings

Also, I don't doubt that my mixing skills need a ton of work. Just looking for help

 

[IT'z Roberto]

Well, DAW's aren't like mixing consoles which have their own characteristic sound. They are completely transparent on their own.

Instead I'd ask which generation of Scarlett Solo do you have?

I believe it's 3rd gen? I got it new a year ago. I'm still fairly new to mixing, I just want my 5 track demos to come out clear.

Lead (center)
Guitars (100% panned left and right)
Bass (center)
Drums (kick and snare center, toms and cymbals panned accordingly for surround)
And Synth for layering

I high-pass/low-pass/notch/EQ each track individually. And sidechain kick with bass. It just sounds muddy and congested if not harsh and sizzly.

 

[cindarkness]

I believe it's 3rd gen? I got it new a year ago. I'm still fairly new to mixing, I just want my 5 track demos to come out clear.

Lead (center)
Guitars (100% panned left and right)
Bass (center)
Drums (kick and snare center, toms and cymbals panned accordingly for surround)
And Synth for layering

I high-pass/low-pass/notch/EQ each track individually. And sidechain kick with bass. It just sounds muddy and congested if not harsh and sizzly.

Pardon me, I though you only had issues with guitar tracks. 3'rd gen Solo is fine though, the first gen's had issues with headroom (EMG or almost anything hotter than the PAF clipping for many).

To be honest, I don't know. Could you upload some demos for us? I'm only mediocre in mixing and the mastering department but here's probably tons of people who can point out the issues in your mix. That's the best way to learn, having someone else's opinion on your demos.

 

[kamello]

post a sample, it's impossible to tell which issue are you having without being able to listen.

In my case, I've used Pro Tools, Cubase and Reaper and never had any issue regarding sound with any of them, my mixes just suck on their own

 

[TedEH]

post a sample, it's impossible to tell which issue are you having without being able to listen.

^ This. Descriptive words for sound often don't convey as much information as we think they do. All anyone can do is guess until we hear what's being talked about.

The way things are being discussed, it kinda sounds like we're following generic mixing advice without bothering about asking why to do certain things, or without listening critically about what we're trying to correct. There's a lot of questions to ask here.

- Do the individual tracks sound the way you expect when you solo them?
- Does the mix as a whole sound better if you exclude one particular track?
- Have you looked at any analysis tools to see if and where there's any excessive frequency build-up?
- How much shaping did you do to the source sound before trying to cram it into a mix?
- Is it possible you have phasing issues and you're cancelling out stuff you want to hear?
- Are you using multi-band compression, which comes with a big risk of knock-on / unintended effects?
- Have you tried sweeping a narrow-ish eq band around just to see if you can find a general area that sounds better if you remove it?

 

[IT'z Roberto]

Pardon me, I though you only had issues with guitar tracks. 3'rd gen Solo is fine though, the first gen's had issues with headroom (EMG or almost anything hotter than the PAF clipping for many).

To be honest, I don't know. Could you upload some demos for us? I'm only mediocre in mixing and the mastering department but here's probably tons of people who can point out the issues in your mix. That's the best way to learn, having someone else's opinion on your demos.

I'll post a 2 quick examples both processed and unprocessed here shortly.

 

[IT'z Roberto]

^ This. Descriptive words for sound often don't convey as much information as we think they do. All anyone can do is guess until we hear what's being talked about.

The way things are being discussed, it kinda sounds like we're following generic mixing advice without bothering about asking why to do certain things, or without listening critically about what we're trying to correct. There's a lot of questions to ask here.

- Do the individual tracks sound the way you expect when you solo them?
- Does the mix as a whole sound better if you exclude one particular track?
- Have you looked at any analysis tools to see if and where there's any excessive frequency build-up?
- How much shaping did you do to the source sound before trying to cram it into a mix?
- Is it possible you have phasing issues and you're cancelling out stuff you want to hear?
- Are you using multi-band compression, which comes with a big risk of knock-on / unintended effects?
- Have you tried sweeping a narrow-ish eq band around just to see if you can find a general area that sounds better if you remove it?

So. Much. To. Learn.

I'll post a quick example both processed and unprocessed using Archetype Plini preset's here in a bit.