Is it me or does REAPER (DAW) sound muddy/congested/crammed/flat?

[cwhitey2]

I use various things, 2.1 speakers (left, right, sub), headphones, computer, phone, car, etc. Ive tried to mix to get clarity on everything. It's probably my mixing skills overall. But I can say I pan hard left and right on guitars, center lead, center bass, center snare and kick, stereo widen cymbals, and somehow it still all sounds like it's mashed together. Like there isn't any separation.

You deff need to get a decent set of studio monitors.

 

[IT'z Roberto]

Here are some examples (not perfectly played)

Processed (but still not enough width/separation)


Unprocessed (extremely congested)


An Original track (congested)

 

[Emperoff]

Good to know, I did watch a video of logic vs protools vs reaper and logic sounded brighter. But they could have EQ'd then differently and claimed they had the same settings

Also, I don't doubt that my mixing skills need a ton of work. Just looking for help

Honestly I know nothing about your mixing skills. I said "It's you" because you asked "Is it me, or...?"

 

[IT'z Roberto]

Well,

Honestly I know nothing about your mixing skills. I said "It's you" because you asked "Is it me, or...?"

i just posted some tracks above this comment maybe you can tell me what is out of whack with them?

 

[GunpointMetal]

I don’t hear anything incredibly wrong with your examples. Maybe too much on some things in the 500hz and down range but it’s not blown out. What I do when I have build up I can’t identify is throw a spectrum analyzer on the master and start soloing busses two at a time to look for any spikes in the frequency response. Some mid/side processing on the master can help, too. Shelf some of the low-mids down in the sides and high-pass the sides between 80-200hz depending on how it sounds. Gives more “air” to the sides and helps with wide sounds.

 

[IT'z Roberto]

I don’t hear anything incredibly wrong with your examples. Maybe too much on some things in the 500hz and down range but it’s not blown out. What I do when I have build up I can’t identify is throw a spectrum analyzer on the master and start soloing busses two at a time to look for any spikes in the frequency response. Some mid/side processing on the master can help, too. Shelf some of the low-mids down in the sides and high-pass the sides between 80-200hz depending on how it sounds. Gives more “air” to the sides and helps with wide sounds.

I think I'm bugged with it not feeling/sounding as "surround sound" as I want, when comparing my mix to professional mixes it's just lacking that breathing room

 

[vertibration]

You just have to watch lots of youtube tutorials about how to properly EQ. Fab Filter Pro Q 3 is a god send. I learned about how to properly mix by joining Imanu's Patreon. He is a drum and bass producer, and I also like to make DnB tracks as well. All of the mixing techniques I learned from DnB production, transfered perfectly to metal music. Its actually stupid easy to mix metal once you learn how to mix DnB music. I think producing DnB music is actually really hard lol. Metal is much easier. Just think outside the box, sometimes bringing in techniques from other genres is clutch

You also should learn about mid/side processing. Phasing, and stereo placement. All of these things with properly using EQ is clutch man. Your mixes will always sound like shit if you dont learn how to use EQ and other techniques. Not saying "Your" music sounds like shit, Im saying in general

 

[IT'z Roberto]

You just have to watch lots of youtube tutorials about how to properly EQ. Fab Filter Pro Q 3 is a god send. I learned about how to properly mix by joining Imanu's Patreon. He is a drum and bass producer, and I also like to make DnB tracks as well. All of the mixing techniques I learned from DnB production, transfered perfectly to metal music. Its actually stupid easy to mix metal once you learn how to mix DnB music. I think producing DnB music is actually really hard lol. Metal is much easier. Just think outside the box, sometimes bringing in techniques from other genres is clutch

You also should learn about mid/side processing. Phasing, and stereo placement. All of these things with properly using EQ is clutch man. Your mixes will always sound like shit if you dont learn how to use EQ and other techniques. Not saying "Your" music sounds like shit, Im saying in general

I'm not familiar with phasing, I've used mid/side stuff. I guess I'm just going for a big sound and not a demo sound. Idk

 

[TedEH]

I'm hearing two entirely distinct things -

One is that your "original" track does have a bit of excess build up somewhere, low-end-y, and your "processed" version does chop a lot of it out. Maybe too much. It's the right idea, just don't go overboard.

"Surround sound" is an entirely different concept though, distinct from EQ. EQ doesn't, on it's own, create a sense of space. To create space you need to be playing with panning, with reverbs and delays, etc.

My recommendation is to back up and go one step at a time. Be very deliberate about your changes. Don't throw stuff at it to see what works - instead ask what is a very specific goal ("I have too much low end") then make a move to correct it (an eq). Then listen critically again and pick another change ("my guitars are too present and don't feel like they're in a space", so you address it by panning, but that comes across unnatural, so you add a bit of a reverb somewhere, but that comes across really bright, so maybe you shave some high end off the reverb so that it's more distant sounding... etc)

 

[GunpointMetal]

I think I'm bugged with it not feeling/sounding as "surround sound" as I want, when comparing my mix to professional mixes it's just lacking that breathing room

As noted, EQ isn't going to be the thing that creates a "space" around the music, but creates space for things in the music. You might want to buss to a big reverb sitting way under the rest of the mix and send elements that need it.

 

[IT'z Roberto]

As noted, EQ isn't going to be the thing that creates a "space" around the music, but creates space for things in the music. You might want to buss to a big reverb sitting way under the rest of the mix and send elements that need it.

Not a bad idea, I've also noticed that when I listen to the mixes in my car, that's where I noticed they are either too thin or too muddy. Idk, not sure how to get that punch/thump for power.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Not a bad idea, I've also noticed that when I listen to the mixes in my car, that's where I noticed they are either too thin or too muddy. Idk, not sure how to get that punch/thump for power.

You've just got to be selective as to what instruments get to utilize frequencies below 200hz and make sure wherever you're adding "fatness" to one thing you're reducing it in competing things. Don't over-compress/over-clip your drums, and pay attention to EQ'ing before and after dynamics processing.

 

[DudeManBrother]

What sample rate do you run at? I’d be curious if you hear an improvement by trying it at 96k. This would push nyquist out much further and reduce aliasing. I also hear some distortion that could be from clipping your plugins. You might try going back through and lowering the volume of everything and using a limiter afterwards for level.

 

[TedEH]

IMO if your mix relies heavily on content high enough that you need a sample rate over 44.1k, you've made a mistake somewhere. Most of your audience won't be able to hear that high anyway.

I listened to the one marked "original" again, and realistically, I don't think it sounds bad, or lacks space - it just needs some low end carefully trimmed out, probably from the bass track, maybe from the guitar tracks instead if you want the bass to sit there but haven't given it enough space.

 

[chasinglows]

DAW’s don’t have a sound. The pan laws used to be different ages ago at default, but I think they all use -3 now. One thing I did notice though with especially waves plugins. You get this huge spike when the compressor reacts to the first signal. With au plugins it doesn’t or didn’t. Soo all the mixes would null (pro tools, cubase and so on) except logic. So the logic mix wouldn’t null the first seconds but then fade in to the null. Super weird! Don’t know if this was a bug years ago with just waves plugins or logic. I don’t have logic in my new studio but would be interesting if that was still the case.

 

[TedEH]

I suppose you could argue that DAWs don't have a sound, but plugins do. It was mentioned that someone was comparing DAWs by using "the same settings" - but EQs are not all made the same. Same with compressors, etc. The implementation is varied enough that they might come across differently, as I understand it. So "the same EQ" in one DAW might have a slightly different result in another. I mean, otherwise why would we need to have a whole collection of plugins that do basically the same thing?

 

[eaeolian]

I haven't used anything besides EQ, neutron elements, ozone, and a limiter on the master bus.

All of those things could contribute to what you're describing. Ozone especially. I finally had to completely punt on iZotope because they made everything sound exactly what you describe. If it doesn't sound good without the limiter and the hypersaturated plugins, then your source isn't good and no amount of plugins is going to help.

 

[eaeolian]

I suppose you could argue that DAWs don't have a sound, but plugins do. It was mentioned that someone was comparing DAWs by using "the same settings" - but EQs are not all made the same. Same with compressors, etc. The implementation is varied enough that they might come across differently, as I understand it. So "the same EQ" in one DAW might have a slightly different result in another. I mean, otherwise why would we need to have a whole collection of plugins that do basically the same thing?

Reaper has no default EQs. Everything is a plugin.

 

[DudeManBrother]

IMO if your mix relies heavily on content high enough that you need a sample rate over 44.1k, you've made a mistake somewhere. Most of your audience won't be able to hear that high anyway.

I listened to the one marked "original" again, and realistically, I don't think it sounds bad, or lacks space - it just needs some low end carefully trimmed out, probably from the bass track, maybe from the guitar tracks instead if you want the bass to sit there but haven't given it enough space.

If you record in the analog domain then 44.1 is all you’ll ever need. Once you start introducing clipping/saturation/distortion in the digital realm you can run into trouble. The audio above 22k will be interpreted incorrectly and folded back into the audible spectrum. It can be very harsh in the upper frequencies, add mud, and collapse the perceived space. If you oversample plugins that add harmonic content you shift those problems higher and higher so that they become less audible/ non audible; or run the mix at a higher sample rate, which effectively does the same thing, but universally.

If you record guitars with a real amp/cab into a mic pre etc then there is no aliasing. You can sculpt the tone with a nice clean linear eq like proQ3 and never introduce any unwanted frequencies. If you use a compressor plugin, it’d probably be processing light enough that the aliasing would fall below the audible spectrum. If every single instrument on your track is digital then you need to take more caution with your sample rate, levels and plugins. For demo songs it really doesn’t matter, but if you’re trying to get a pro sounding record then it all adds up.

 

[IT'z Roberto]

If you record in the analog domain then 44.1 is all you’ll ever need. Once you start introducing clipping/saturation/distortion in the digital realm you can run into trouble. The audio above 22k will be interpreted incorrectly and folded back into the audible spectrum. It can be very harsh in the upper frequencies, add mud, and collapse the perceived space. If you oversample plugins that add harmonic content you shift those problems higher and higher so that they become less audible/ non audible; or run the mix at a higher sample rate, which effectively does the same thing, but universally.

If you record guitars with a real amp/cab into a mic pre etc then there is no aliasing. You can sculpt the tone with a nice clean linear eq like proQ3 and never introduce any unwanted frequencies. If you use a compressor plugin, it’d probably be processing light enough that the aliasing would fall below the audible spectrum. If every single instrument on your track is digital then you need to take more caution with your sample rate, levels and plugins. For demo songs it really doesn’t matter, but if you’re trying to get a pro sounding record then it all adds up.

I mainly use Neural DSP stuff, suggestions?