strappeo
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Hmmmmm, how about no. Wouldn't have learned about some of their shit if it's all just people blindly deepthroating Jeff's guitars like in other communities.
Kiesel --- Never Again!
- Thread starter MetalHead40
- Start date
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Eye contact matters.
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dmlinger
PepperFox Guitars
Man, that $250 upcharge for a 3-piece roasted/plain maple neck is spendy. I haven't shopped or even browsed the custom/semi custom guitar market in ages, so I have no gauge on what the rate is for upgraded woods in today's market.
Last year I bought enough roasted maple to make about 8 necks for around $100 total. I'd argue that a one piece neck would cost more because 8/4 lumber (for a one-piece neck) cost more per board foot than 4/4 that would be laminated to make a 3-piece. The labor to joint, plane and glue a 3-piece blank is negligible in a facility like Kiesel's.
I know, I know, it's an add-on they can charge to improve margins. Just a rant. Continue on haha
Last year I bought enough roasted maple to make about 8 necks for around $100 total. I'd argue that a one piece neck would cost more because 8/4 lumber (for a one-piece neck) cost more per board foot than 4/4 that would be laminated to make a 3-piece. The labor to joint, plane and glue a 3-piece blank is negligible in a facility like Kiesel's.
I know, I know, it's an add-on they can charge to improve margins. Just a rant. Continue on haha
Riverview
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My idea was , there’s already over 200+ pages about it . I didn’t mean delete it , just for reference .
Also , I don’t own any Kiesels
There's no fucking way I'm reading 219 pages to see if anyone's asked this, but surely with OP's guitar, all it needs is an angled shim to point the neck down towards the bridge a bit? Stewmac makes some angled shims to add 1/4º to a neck. I stuck one in my squier and it's a fuckin weapon now, although I had the opposite problem - everything was too close to the body and flat.
That's not to say that Kiesel shouldn't have picked up on it in QC, but if the guitar is flawless otherwise, chuck a shim in there and enjoy it!
That's not to say that Kiesel shouldn't have picked up on it in QC, but if the guitar is flawless otherwise, chuck a shim in there and enjoy it!
spudmunkey
Well-Known Member
Not sure what the final resolution was there, but they've since re-designed the neck pocket, and I haven't seen anyone post a similar issue in years. Additionally, Hipshot's redesigned their saddles, and one of the changes is slightly more rounded corners, which are more comfortable since even the "perfect" as-designed install has them sticking up a little bit above the side walls of the bridge.
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Yeah, as someone who grew up living in 4 different countries, none of them the US, his constant parroting of "American made" is jarring and kinda cringe. It's cool that you support your local economy, but like... if I live in Europe and I am buying a guitar that is made elsewhere, I could care less that it came from the US, Canada, or Indonesia, as long as it plays well. (Which they seemingly do.) Then again, there's a lot of commentary there that is totally irrelevant to this thread
so I'll leave it at that.
Hollowway
Extended Ranger
That’s an interesting point. Here, in the US, Made in America can mean three things. 1) it’s high quality, 2) it’s patriotic to buy it, because it was made here, 3) it’s safe to buy because we’re not exploiting third country labor. Obviously #3 carries overseas, but #2 doesn’t, and #1 is product dependent. But I don’t think most brands think about this, because we Americans tend to view America as the world. I mean, we’re one of 35 countries in the Americas, but we have the balls/myopia to call ourselves “America.”Yeah, as someone who grew up living in 4 different countries, none of them the US, his constant parroting of "American made" is jarring and kinda cringe. It's cool that you support your local economy, but like... if I live in Europe and I am buying a guitar that is made elsewhere, I could care less that it came from the US, Canada, or Indonesia, as long as it plays well. (Which they seemingly do.) Then again, there's a lot of commentary there that is totally irrelevant to this thread
Yeah I fully agree with #3.That’s an interesting point. Here, in the US, Made in America can mean three things. 1) it’s high quality, 2) it’s patriotic to buy it, because it was made here, 3) it’s safe to buy because we’re not exploiting third country labor. Obviously #3 carries overseas, but #2 doesn’t, and #1 is product dependent. But I don’t think most brands think about this, because we Americans tend to view America as the world. I mean, we’re one of 35 countries in the Americas, but we have the balls/myopia to call ourselves “America.”
#1 is an interesting one but, in my head, it is largely a product of #3. A fairer wage doesn't just mean more employee motivation to do a good job, but it means that, as a company, there is a higher emphasis on quality rather than volume, probably to justify having to charge the consumer for said higher wages. A real business analyst can probably produce a much more detailed, nuanced, and eloquent reasoning than what I just gave
but it makes sense to me. Then again, as far as guitars are concerned, we have been seeing some real good work come out of factories abroad, so this point seems to be getting more irrelevant as time goes on.Sadly though, most of the time I hear "made in America" I just hear #2
I guess that's a legitimate motivator for a company to produce quality gear? But I find it sends a really weird and kinda icky subliminal message. I have lived in too many places to be able to process American patriotism the same way an American does. The US has a ginormous population with very significant purchasing power, so it makes total sense to want to cater to that market. It's a great marketing ploy, but it's really just geared to US citizens or foreigners infatuated with American culture. (Of which there are a lot, granted.) It also reinforces local spending, which is arguably a good thing, but that weird message I spoke of creates a very strong "us vs them" mentality.And yeah the whole "America" thing always makes me chuckle, but it's so ingrained in the language and in people's psyches (my own included) that it's easy for me to ignore unless I purposely think about it. It works much better in English, too. There's a reason in Latin America we just say "gringo"
which admittedly isn't a great term either. Our Spanish-speaking, European counterparts seem to care much less, to the point that "gringo" isn't part of their vocabulary, and just say "Americano" or "estadounidense", the latter being the official demonym for someone from the US. The Royal Spanish Academy (the most official body we have that regulates and standardizes the Spanish language worldwide) actually discourages the use of the term "American" to refer to someone from the US.ANYWAYS I can talk about this for long. My apologies for the tangent, I just find it an interesting topic.
Godin and (formerly) Larivee do the same stuff with the MADE IN CANADA product line.
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I've never actually paid attention to their marketing, but it doesn't surprise me. Canada isn't all that different to the US, as much as many people may think it is. It's like a slightly toned down version of it.
On another note, I don't think I've ever played a Larrivee, but Godin are fantastic guitars, even if they aren't fully my style. It's kinda cool that I get to see so many of them everywhere I go to here. If I lived near Escondido you bet I'd visit the Kiesel showroom often, even if I'd rather not rub shoulders with Jeff too much.
FrznTek
Well-Known Member
As an American, he comes off like a scummy used car salesman. IMO of course.
Can you tell that to Gibson?
soliloquy
Well-Known Member
That’s an interesting point. Here, in the US, Made in America can mean three things. 1) it’s high quality, 2) it’s patriotic to buy it, because it was made here, 3) it’s safe to buy because we’re not exploiting third country labor. Obviously #3 carries overseas, but #2 doesn’t, and #1 is product dependent. But I don’t think most brands think about this, because we Americans tend to view America as the world. I mean, we’re one of 35 countries in the Americas, but we have the balls/myopia to call ourselves “America.”
Preface: not sure why i continue lingering with Carvin/Kiesel anymore, but here I am.
I do see what you're saying, and sort of agree with it. However, in Canada, and other parts of the world that I've explored, I see a very different mentality regarding this.
in efforts to being more ethical in every aspect of business, I see slogans similar to "we ensure (or we pride ourselves on) our product is ethically sourced, environmentally safe, and ensure all parties involved in making our products are ethically funded and treated". wordings can change, but the message is the same, that 'we stand behind our products, and by our fellow humans across the planet, and we take pride in taking care of the environment'.
no where does it indicate one nation being better than the other, or selling patriotism (at least in my experience so far).
As such, i think Jeff rubs more people wrong for trying to sell something that the bigger public either doesn't care for, or is turned off by (thats why i stopped dealing with Carvin. And once Kiesel changed names, I backed off fully).
just my opinion, but if Jeff is to soften his choice of words (If I'm not mistaken, I believe Taylor Guitars, who is neighbors to Kiesel, does a GREAT job at this. Very transparent and focuses on the product, rather than the 'made in USA' badge), then Kiesel may do better in business.
Dean guitars was sort of guilty of this as well. Rather than selling the product, at times, they were more focused on 'only buy USA!' while their affordable guitars were made in Chez; Korea, China; Indonesia.
soliloquy
Well-Known Member
I think Godin et al, is a bit different than Kiesel here. In my experience, they aren't selling 'Canada' as a symbol of pride, but rather fair wages/ethically sourced material. i think Prestige Guitars in BC are doing the same thing.
Every guitar company promotes the home base on their instruments - including Canadian companies, Japanese companies, Australian companies, Swedish companies, etc etc etc. Of all the things that you can piss on Jeff's leg about, this is the strangest issue to take up. Godin slaps a friggin maple leaf on all the Canadian-made listings on their site. Jingoism sells on both sides of every border.
Nothing wrong with having pride in your operation, and to an extent where that happens to be. 
Jeff is just a dipshit, so it's easy to not like whatever he's saying, which is why it's not very smart to be the face of a company and also a dipshit.
Jeff is just a dipshit, so it's easy to not like whatever he's saying, which is why it's not very smart to be the face of a company and also a dipshit.
Yes, and I think lot of people doesn't know.
The moment I noticed ordered a new bridge for my Soloist. A lot more comfortable indeed. It's not that much of a problem in some guitars, but in mine it was really annoying when palm muting.
Riverview
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Prestige and Godin make killer guitars . I’ve played a few Godin’s and they are insane for the price . I’ve also only heard people absolutely rave about Prestige as well , they’re about a 30 minute drive from me , I plan on seeing if I can get a shop tour eventually . I see them played a bunch locally , they got a good thing going . Their custom shop stuff is insane .
