So it's a parody? The thing you're ultra impressed by is the fact they parodied their own movie 20 years later?
Matrix Resurrections....
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So it's a parody? The thing you're ultra impressed by is the fact they parodied their own movie 20 years later?
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StevenC
Needs a hobby
To an extent, yes. The movie has a lot to say in my opinion, but one of the questions it asks is why are you watching this movie and why have people been asking for it for 20 years?
To be honest I don't understand what anyone was expecting from this movie or how it could have been better.
It's just a weird concept. Bait people in that were fans of your movie so you can tell them they're stupid for that and send them on their way.
StevenC
Needs a hobby
I don't think wanting the audience to ask questions of themselves is bait, but I do think calling that bait is a good argument for Resurrections being right about something.
Great post!
One thing about this line though: the original plot was dumbed down for the masses, from what I heard. The original idea was not that we're somehow efficient batteries, but that we were used as co-processors for the machines. The urgency to break out of the matrix was supposed to be that our brains were adapted to and dehumanized by the matrix/our role as processors, just like how extended exposure to anything affects our thinking and behavior. Cipher's reason for wanting to return to the matrix was not the dystopia outside, but a consequence of being adapted to the matrix, like a kind of mechanical dopamine craving (or literal, but I suppose breaking out of the matrix would be difficult if drowned in hormones...).
One thing about this line though: the original plot was dumbed down for the masses, from what I heard. The original idea was not that we're somehow efficient batteries, but that we were used as co-processors for the machines. The urgency to break out of the matrix was supposed to be that our brains were adapted to and dehumanized by the matrix/our role as processors, just like how extended exposure to anything affects our thinking and behavior. Cipher's reason for wanting to return to the matrix was not the dystopia outside, but a consequence of being adapted to the matrix, like a kind of mechanical dopamine craving (or literal, but I suppose breaking out of the matrix would be difficult if drowned in hormones...).
IwantTacos
SS.org Regular
More like the original plot was beat for beat a copy of every concept in the invisibles. But they couldn’t figure out their own take on it that made sense so they dumbed it down instead.
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Meh, I still think it's overly judgemental of the audience. It's not like if you watch the Matrix you're a stone dumb moron. It's possible to watch and enjoy legitimately deep or cerebral movies for what they are and go into the Matrix or one of its sequels thinking it's something else.
I guess my point is that I found the original Matrix to be kind of overambitious for whatever themes they were going for juxtaposed with the horrible acting and the so-so directing. That's even before this whole reimagining we're doing 20 years later. The saving grace of the Matrix was the aesthetic and the fact that the first time you watch(ed) it, each turn is a surprise or a new layer as the environment grows. A Cabin in the Woods, sort of.
To come back afterward and say this movie is too smart for you or the theme was singular and you were too stupid to get it because it was buried under a layer of bullet time awe is yeah, cheap. Maybe people missed the subtext or didn't but the acting was so poor and the extraneous goings on were so gaudy that they gave up caring and just appreciated the movie for what they were seeing on the screen.
Maybe I'm alone in this but when I go into a movie, I kinda size it up at some point and decide when I'm putting my brain on cruise control. I can't imagine keeping my brain turned on for 2 hours of Keanu Reeves doing anything.
Rev2010
Contributor
Funny, and you think you have it all figured out and the rest of us that didn't like it just don't get the movie. It was not a parody of itself, nor something made solely to get revenge on Warner Brothers or simply make some sort of statement.
Lana said herself while going through the grief of losing her parents and her wife's close friend, "I didn’t really know how to process that kind of grief. I hadn’t experienced it … I knew my dad was getting sick and you know that their lives are going to end and yet, it was still really hard. My brain has always reached into my imagination and one night, I was just crying and couldn’t sleep. Suddenly, my brain exploded this whole story and I couldn’t have my mom and dad. I couldn’t talk to my mom and yet, suddenly, I had Neo and Trinity — arguably the two most important characters in my life — and it was immediately comforting to have these two characters alive again."
Yeah, that sure sounds like the work of someone making a joke out of their latest project.
She wanted to make it very meta and also about mental health. I think mirroring her real life situations into parts of the movie, such as that office scene where "We're going to make it with or without you" was just a way to incorporate that.Then you go on to insult people for simply discussing a movie in a thread? I don't recall seeing anyone super butthurt here, not like people are calling for a boycott
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DudeManBrother
Hey...how did everybody get in my room?
I wasn’t offended or butthurt by the movie whatsoever. I don’t know anything about the directors, their storyline motivations, or what they hoped to convey originally with the -red pill/blue pill- concept. I never even finished the sequels. I just think the movie flat out sucked. Why does Neo need to keep doing that stupid thing with his hands everytime agents are shooting at him? Nobody else had that ability, and yet not a single bullet ever came even close to hitting anyone. Just keep running and you’ll be perfectly fine. It was like an old cartoon episode of GI Joe.
Rev2010
Contributor
My friend who watched it with me responded to a friends comment on FB - she said "Oh and in case you want to know A.I. 'beings' can't hit any target when shooting at it"
narad
Progressive metal and politics
It sucked. Not as bad as II or III, but just in this kind of unnecessary and unremarkable way. It wasn't clever in a "Primer" way, it was clever in like a Hollywood "Scream III" kinda way, which is to say, not very. Matrix + Animatrix, and I just try to forget the rest ever happened.
nightflameauto
Well-Known Member
Hey! Jupiter Ascending is the absolute best movie in the world to watch when you're stoned out of your mind and feeling like watching someone else's fever dreams.
I love the Animatrix.
Actually, it's every bit as bad as people are making it out to be.
And I hate that I have to say that. I'm a dude that LOVES meta and forth walling to an almost brutal degree, and within a half hour I'm like, "just make a plot and stop doing this fourth wall funny, funny poking shit."
I tried twice and fell asleep both times. It's just not engaging on any level whatsoever. By the time I made it through the scene where they meet in the coffee shop my brain was scrambling to find something else to think about and I basically passed out. It kinda makes me sad this movie got made when it fairly well spells out exactly why they didn't want to make it in the first place.
Maybe years down the road people will be able to hold it up as a turning point in self-referential bullshit, but right now it just sorta feels like somebody tossed a turd in the punch bowl.
profwoot
SS.org Regular
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I was very enthusiastic about the first Matrix, and spent many hours discussing its philosophical implications and in-universe plot possibilities. I even stayed mostly on board after the second film, thinking it might actually be brilliant if it was setting up the third film. After that shitshow I began to realize the power of crowdsourcing, as what emerges from a large number of enthusiasts can be far more compelling than what any individual or small team will likely come up with.
The 4th one seems like a triviality. Not vacuous like the 3rd, but still without much of import to say beyond an F U to the studio and a dig at the mindlessness of the populace. Since it's also entirely lacking in style, the mediocre philosophy is all there is to fall back on. I don't lament its creation, but I also don't imagine I'll long remember it exists.
The 4th one seems like a triviality. Not vacuous like the 3rd, but still without much of import to say beyond an F U to the studio and a dig at the mindlessness of the populace. Since it's also entirely lacking in style, the mediocre philosophy is all there is to fall back on. I don't lament its creation, but I also don't imagine I'll long remember it exists.
thebeesknees22
SS.org Regular
I'm in the corner of loving the first one. It was imho revolutionary for it's time. It changed everything in film, and paved the way for LOTR and pretty much every big vfx film after.
2 and 3 were ok, minus the dumb cave rave scene. They could have definitely been better, but they were still watchable.
4 though is just borderline unwatchable. It took me 2 nights to get through it and that was a struggle.
2 and 3 were ok, minus the dumb cave rave scene. They could have definitely been better, but they were still watchable.
4 though is just borderline unwatchable. It took me 2 nights to get through it and that was a struggle.
TedEH
Cromulent
Today I learned that one of the most influential sci-fi films made is actually just objectively "bad" because y'all said so. Never change sso.
Never change sso.
sakeido
Contributor
Do takes get any spicier and wrong than saying the first Matrix had "so-so directing?" I'm not sure. It's only one of the most influential action movies of all time... there's an argument to be made it's the single most influential action movie of all time. It's very rare that a movie that's a feast for the senses has anything to say, much less themes worth discussing for 20+ years. We're talking about a movie so good, so far ahead of its time, it got the Wachowskis a free pass to spend a quarter billion dollars of studio money to make extremely weird movies every few years, apparently for the rest of their lives. I guess that all happened completely by accident?
if people can change their tune about Last Action Hero, which was a poorly reviewed bomb on release, it can happen for this one too
"So-so" is spicy to you?
The scenery was kind of a less jarring Dark City/The Crow-type (so, borrowed), as I said the acting was VERY bad, the dialogue as it was written is not great and a lot of the scenes themselves were awkward. The premise was fantastic, the costume design, fight choreography and special effects were legendary and rightly so.
That's how you get to "so-so" directing.
Keep in mind, that's aside from the fact I entered this discussion saying the original movie was good and I mentioned the Animatrix because I thought it built on the same world but delivered it a little better because it wasn't dragged down by the same shortcomings of the live-action movie. The two combined were very good, I thought what they decided to so with it after that was a shame.
"Most influential" eh, idk. The aesthetic and the gunplay choreography thing definitely, although it was kind of a trend for a few years (Equilibrium?) that died out. The thing it had going for it the most was the fact it was a 2 hour VFX demo reel with a lot of revolutionary effects (bullet time, the helicopter scene, the bank lobby, the weapon "vault"). No arguments there.
I'm just missing this idea that it needs to be reimagined as not just a very unique movie that did a lot of 'never before scene' things visually, but it also needs to be Citizen fuckin' Kane too and because we unwashed neanderthals didn't realize it was this masterpiece for the last 20 years, we need to be condescended for thinking we were getting a fun new pew pew pew movie.
FILTHnFEAR
Dread it, run from it....
I wouldn't call it terrible, but it wasn't all that good either. Took me 2 sit downs to get through it. I loved the first 3 films, minus some of the 3rd.
They should have just left it as a trilogy. But everything has to be redone/remade/reimagined(usually resulting in horrid failure) these days because Hollywood is severely lacking in the creative department.
They should have just left it as a trilogy. But everything has to be redone/remade/reimagined(usually resulting in horrid failure) these days because Hollywood is severely lacking in the creative department.
Edika
Well-Known Member
I saw it on Sunday, probably should have read some reviews first lol. The misses was not thrilled and I'm on the so and so and probably didn't need a 4th movie camp.
From the original Matrix movies, I liked the first one. The second was just action, action, action, explosions with no story at all and the third one, while better, it seemed like they were just making stuff up. A lot of plot holes, which might seem intentional to give deep meaning and let the viewer think of the outcome, but it was obvious they had no idea where they were going with this.
The reasons I liked this chapter was the first half of the movie. Honestly if they stuck to that story line, that everything was his overactive imagination and a psychotic breakdown then it would have been so much more interesting. Then the action scenes were uninspiring and awful. One thing they tried to do really haphazardly is develop Trinity a bit more. Give her a bit more of an equal footing, vs being the love inspiration behind the net Messiah. But they did not really develop her character that much as it was focused on Mr. Anderson. Anyway a bit of a wasted potential and unfortunately left openings for more movies. I hope they don't but market, money and all that.
From the original Matrix movies, I liked the first one. The second was just action, action, action, explosions with no story at all and the third one, while better, it seemed like they were just making stuff up. A lot of plot holes, which might seem intentional to give deep meaning and let the viewer think of the outcome, but it was obvious they had no idea where they were going with this.
The reasons I liked this chapter was the first half of the movie. Honestly if they stuck to that story line, that everything was his overactive imagination and a psychotic breakdown then it would have been so much more interesting. Then the action scenes were uninspiring and awful. One thing they tried to do really haphazardly is develop Trinity a bit more. Give her a bit more of an equal footing, vs being the love inspiration behind the net Messiah. But they did not really develop her character that much as it was focused on Mr. Anderson. Anyway a bit of a wasted potential and unfortunately left openings for more movies. I hope they don't but market, money and all that.
