Metalcore / Djent Riff Theory

[False_God]

I wanted to generally ask what goes through your mind when writing metalcore / djent riffs on a seven string?? I purchased a 7 string not long ago, and have been working on re-writing and re-arranging a number of post-metal-esque style songs I had previously written on a 6 string to include contemporary metalcore / djent elements.

I have a 4-chord progression that I am working on writing a corresponding riff, however I can't say I have written anything that 'rips' quite the way I am imagining. I think part of the challenge is that the root note is the 4th fret on the low string (due to the range of my vocal melody in clean vox section), rather than the open string, which obviously seems more technically difficult albeit perhaps a potentially more fruitful endeavor. However, I am basically experimenting with various combinations of playing the root and jumping up a few strings and playing the 3rd, 5th, 7th, octave, and 9th as 16th note motifs, in the style of bands like Currents or Invent Animate. As well as including chromatic notes where it seems apposite, however it sounds very contrived and doesn't quite flow. I suspect there might some element of rhythm and timing that needs to be addressed more directly.

 

[ArtDecade]

000110000010010010101000011110101010000010100100010101111000000000

 

[SalsaWood]

Djent typically predicates a great deal on swung rhythms and chromatic notes with offset minors. (Yes, minor are actually more chromatic, but not in this cooperative context.)

Metalcore typically predicates a great deal on minor passages with counter rhythms, and then minor variations within major breakdowns.

 

[ArtDecade]

^ That is what I said.

 

[phillybhatesme]

You're swimming upstream by not being able to use 0578 lol

 

[False_God]

Djent typically predicates a great deal on swung rhythms and chromatic notes with offset minors. (Yes, minor are actually more chromatic, but not in this cooperative context.)

Metalcore typically predicates a great deal on minor passages with counter rhythms, and then minor variations within major breakdowns.

Thanks for your reply. I'm uncertain what you mean by offset minor. Would this be including locrian flat 2nd or flat 5th when playing aeolian?

 

[False_God]

You're swimming upstream by not being able to use 0578 lol

Yes, I understand that a lot of contemporary riffs utilize progressions with this 0-5-7-8 format. However, the riff I am currently writing is essentially Root-Maj 7 and then transposing 1.5 steps upwards for the 2nd two chords. Although I am dedicating most of the phrase to the root with the other three chords being more transitory.

 

[SalsaWood]

I'm uncertain what you mean by offset minor

Throwing in three half steps off a note in the key is a good example. So if you're playing a major third in key an offset minor would be a flat first or sharp fourth of the root note, but it's indexed minor relative to the third of the key instead of to the root note. You can move it around to any note in the original key while you otherwise repeat the progression to wherever sounds good as the context builds. Djent tends to do it with a fifth to flat eighth/sharp seventh, metalcore tends to do it with thirds and fifths to both of the respectively aforementioned. It can be jarring to just throw right in there with melodic shred patterns, but resolving it with melody is very easy given the progression remains overtly major. You're basically taking any note/notes in the key then throwing its minor twin into the scale with it so that it's minor relative to the note in the scale rather than strictly minor to the key itself. Though of course in many examples both are the simultaneously the case, but technically speaking offset minors are distinctly ones which are not minor to the root itself, and that's what djent uniquely makes use of.

In djent, this is what gives it that spinning robot feel when they do the chromatic tappy tappy and lends us the groovy but odd accents in rhythms, because the minor relationship is moving around too. The same transformation can be used in other styles to lesser degrees to stab "outside the box" and write some tasty fusion licks. Govan is a master of demonstrating this in his music, it's a big part of how he seems to slip on the key in interesting ways here and there to sound wrong in exactly the right way. If you're running through modes like Dream Theater you will probably see they also make constant use of this approach and use it as a method of key modulation.

 

[Asdrael]

Throwing in three half steps off a note in the key is a good example. So if you're playing a major third in key an offset minor would be a flat first or sharp fourth of the root note, but it's indexed minor relative to the third of the key instead of to the root note. You can move it around to any note in the original key while you otherwise repeat the progression to wherever sounds good as the context builds. Djent tends to do it with a fifth to flat eighth/sharp seventh, metalcore tends to do it with thirds and fifths to both of the respectively aforementioned. It can be jarring to just throw right in there with melodic shred patterns, but resolving it with melody is very easy given the progression remains overtly major. You're basically taking any note/notes in the key then throwing its minor twin into the scale with it so that it's minor relative to the note in the scale rather than strictly minor to the key itself. Though of course in many examples both are the simultaneously the case, but technically speaking offset minors are distinctly ones which are not minor to the root itself, and that's what djent uniquely makes use of.

In djent, this is what gives it that spinning robot feel when they do the chromatic tappy tappy and lends us the groovy but odd accents in rhythms, because the minor relationship is moving around too. The same transformation can be used in other styles to lesser degrees to stab "outside the box" and write some tasty fusion licks. Govan is a master of demonstrating this in his music, it's a big part of how he seems to slip on the key in interesting ways here and there to sound wrong in exactly the right way. If you're running through modes like Dream Theater you will probably see they also make constant use of this approach and use it as a method of key modulation.

You make me want to actually study theory beyond the very basic stuff. Kudos. I'll try to get a book now.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

what goes through your mind when writing metalcore / djent riffs on a seven string??

"why am I doing this to myself?"

 

[gnoll]

Throwing in three half steps off a note in the key is a good example. So if you're playing a major third in key an offset minor would be a flat first or sharp fourth of the root note, but it's indexed minor relative to the third of the key instead of to the root note. You can move it around to any note in the original key while you otherwise repeat the progression to wherever sounds good as the context builds. Djent tends to do it with a fifth to flat eighth/sharp seventh, metalcore tends to do it with thirds and fifths to both of the respectively aforementioned. It can be jarring to just throw right in there with melodic shred patterns, but resolving it with melody is very easy given the progression remains overtly major. You're basically taking any note/notes in the key then throwing its minor twin into the scale with it so that it's minor relative to the note in the scale rather than strictly minor to the key itself. Though of course in many examples both are the simultaneously the case, but technically speaking offset minors are distinctly ones which are not minor to the root itself, and that's what djent uniquely makes use of.

In djent, this is what gives it that spinning robot feel when they do the chromatic tappy tappy and lends us the groovy but odd accents in rhythms, because the minor relationship is moving around too. The same transformation can be used in other styles to lesser degrees to stab "outside the box" and write some tasty fusion licks. Govan is a master of demonstrating this in his music, it's a big part of how he seems to slip on the key in interesting ways here and there to sound wrong in exactly the right way. If you're running through modes like Dream Theater you will probably see they also make constant use of this approach and use it as a method of key modulation.

This sounds interesting but I gotta say also hella confusing. Anywhere I can read more about this? I've never heard these terms before.

 

[SalsaWood]

This sounds interesting but I gotta say also hella confusing. Anywhere I can read more about this? I've never heard these terms before.

Yea, it took me like 25 minutes to figure out how to explain it in words. I've definitely seen Govan talk about it in his lessons, and Scott Henderson does it almost constantly. It's not really a metal approach, and they do the best demonstration of it for sure. Govan definitely brought it home for me personally.

 

[budda]

Salsawood basically saying “passing tones that would be dissonant if they werent passing” seems like the tl/dr version no?

As for me (metalcore) i wanted chugs fun rhythms and “interesting” riffs. I succeeded for the most part and the group was short lived. Still fun to bust em out over a decade later, so i know they werent total garbage.

Edit: knight/ellis era tbdm riffs use the “throw a major interval in places” thing very well in riffs and leads.

 

[BaylorPRSer]

F

I wanted to generally ask what goes through your mind when writing metalcore / djent riffs on a seven string?? I purchased a 7 string not long ago, and have been working on re-writing and re-arranging a number of post-metal-esque style songs I had previously written on a 6 string to include contemporary metalcore / djent elements.

I have a 4-chord progression that I am working on writing a corresponding riff, however I can't say I have written anything that 'rips' quite the way I am imagining. I think part of the challenge is that the root note is the 4th fret on the low string (due to the range of my vocal melody in clean vox section), rather than the open string, which obviously seems more technically difficult albeit perhaps a potentially more fruitful endeavor. However, I am basically experimenting with various combinations of playing the root and jumping up a few strings and playing the 3rd, 5th, 7th, octave, and 9th as 16th note motifs, in the style of bands like Currents or Invent Animate. As well as including chromatic notes where it seems apposite, however it sounds very contrived and doesn't quite flow. I suspect there might some element of rhythm and timing that needs to be addressed more directly.

or rhythm and timing, you can experiment with the metronome. Try keeping the same tempo, but experiment with setting the metronome to half notes, quarter notes, eighth notes, and 16th notes. Djent is very “around the beat” and syncopated. Play around with different accents, and over the bar line type stuff, and at some point you’ll find the rhythm for the part. Also, experiment with playing over different drum grooves.

 

[lurè]

Djent is more about rhythm than notes.

Pick a 4/4 tempo and divide it in 16th.

Now experiment with dividing the 16th in different permutations:

3+2+2+3+3+3

Or
4+3+7+2

Or
2+5+2+3+4. And so on.

You can do it for every multiple of 4 and experiment with accents.