Neck thru walnut with mahogany wings?

[hanachanmaru]

Yes, it might be bullshit but it's not necessary to mock people about "not having a common sense". I am willing to politely argue about the topic but this thread is not the place for it.



You have a point sir. I appreciate your post.

Lastly, I am now retreating from this thread. I'm not on a good mood and I don't want to start a fight.

If Fixxxer or anyone else wants to discuss about tonewood with me I am willing to have a chat. Just send me a PM.


@hanachanmaru I would use walnut as the core and add a mahogany top to it. Kind of like a reverse Les-Paul I think the core wood affects the tone more and the top is the icing.

I'm sorry your thread turned into this nonsense.

hey ! no problem there i could understand how much effort they put in for this thread when they sounded serious and at times kind of harsh but i could understand their passion and anxiety inside them having to convience the other party to agree to... but hope they could do restrain ...

 

[ElysianGuitars]

That's the way building things is: Plan against every single possible problem you can unless it harms the product at a whole.

Out of curiosity, what's your personal opinion on the matter? I'm kind of half/half, I think that attack, brightness, and volume are effected by the wood but not as much as the pickups alter the voicing.

Edit: As the thread is getting a bit off topic, to the OP, walnut and mahogany should balance nicely. Walnut is somewhat bright (between limba and maple?) from what I've heard, but very growly. Mahogany is dark, but with some of the same texture and harmonic breakup. This is going off of Warmoth and personal anecdotes entirely. Light walnut and light mahogany (weightwise) are supposedly preferable. If you're looking for a gorgeous orange wood with tone similar to walnut, I absolutely love working with padauk (though it is irritating/allergy causing in some).

Warmoth Custom Guitar Parts - Neck Woods
Warmoth Custom Guitar Parts - Body Wood Options

Pickups are certainly the biggest factor, but wood absolutely matters. Having built so many replacement bodies, it's been really obvious to me when I change the wood.

 

[Rus]

I'm having an all walnut custom neck-through built right now. The luthier is very experienced and knows I play metal/hardcore, so I'm trusting him to make it sound good.

How can guys still think wood has no effect on tone when most luthiers and guitar companies have certain wood combinations they regularly prefer? The guitar builders have years and sometimes decades of experience using different types of woods.

 

[AwDeOh]

Nobody at any point claimed that any two bodies of wood X sound exactly the same. That's a major misrepresentation of the argument.

No, but that would be the control group that validates the pro-tonewood ideas here. I used to pay attention to the relationship between wood and tone, until I heard the sound clip I posted above, which is of this guitar:

I then saw an already subjective topic flipped on it's head and thrown out the window when I saw videos like this:

The guy who built a guitar out of a shovel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc6gv-fbUDs

And the guy who built one out of concrete:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F2SHlfB8YE

At which point it would, to me, seem that wood choices play a much smaller part in defining a guitar tone than the general public think. People gravitate toward particular woods for reasons other than aesthetics and tone. I think it was Patata who was asking about basswood for a guitar.. that stuff used to have a reputation below MDF in my parts - not because of anyone's first-hand experience with it's 'tone', but because it was used to make bottom-dollar Ibanez beginner's guitars, which caused people to think it must be rubbish to be so cheap. Then it was awesome while Korn were playing basswood guitars. Then 5 years later it was rubbish again... because Korn were playing basswood guitars.

 

[AwDeOh]

Ugh.. you people drew me into ANOTHER debate about tone. Shame on all of you bastards. Let's focus on why everyone SHOULD use Walnut in their guitars:

 

[TRENCHLORD]

I used to pay attention to the relationship between wood and tone, until I heard the sound clip I posted above, which is of this guitar:

And that's a standard theme when things are judged based on sound clips.

Listen to Ola's various sound-clip demos playing various amps.
They all sound almost identical (to me anyways). Playing the amps live in person they are all noticeably different sounding and different feeling.

Much of the sonic character in different guitars, pickups, overdrives, amps, speakers ect, are mostly lost when the signal hits the microphone and/or processing gear.

Another example is the BKP website with all the different pickup sound-clips.
Most of us agree that pickups make a big difference on our tone, yet those clips alone would make me believe otherwise, and they're even trying hard to show us the differences.

 

[Necromagnon]

but moving the amp's low-knob won't do much at all for adding or subtracting that tightness that you get from a hardwood core.

Gotta say that to my Deliverance.

Oh, and mahogany basses sounds great, btw. I have 2, and go listen to some recordings of my band and tell me it's not distinguishable.

For everyone saying the debate on tonewood here is not relevant for OP: ok, let's take him to some very expensive and heavy wood to have "a perfect sounding guitar" that he will never be able to play because it's to heavy for him. That's the best we can do for him, letting him go on choice for a custom instrument he may not like/play.

 

[hanachanmaru]

No, but that would be the control group that validates the pro-tonewood ideas here. I used to pay attention to the relationship between wood and tone, until I heard the sound clip I posted above, which is of this guitar:

I then saw an already subjective topic flipped on it's head and thrown out the window when I saw videos like this:

The guy who built a guitar out of a shovel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc6gv-fbUDs

And the guy who built one out of concrete:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F2SHlfB8YE

At which point it would, to me, seem that wood choices play a much smaller part in defining a guitar tone than the general public think. People gravitate toward particular woods for reasons other than aesthetics and tone. I think it was Patata who was asking about basswood for a guitar.. that stuff used to have a reputation below MDF in my parts - not because of anyone's first-hand experience with it's 'tone', but because it was used to make bottom-dollar Ibanez beginner's guitars, which caused people to think it must be rubbish to be so cheap. Then it was awesome while Korn were playing basswood guitars. Then 5 years later it was rubbish again... because Korn were playing basswood guitars.

wow its an eye opener here a guitar that sounds decent enough made up of a shovel ? lol omg... but i hate to believe it ! marketing hype ? yeah? maybe?

but i guess from another point view.. basically is either hard dense wood or soft wood that sounds... merely representation of hard dense wood or softer wood.. but to the extend of differentiating a hard rock maple to an ebony its still no clue...

no idea to believe or not personally.. but in my point of view i still want my guitar to look conventional made from decent looking quality wood.

for this thread here both parties thanks for the credible information here ! i reallly learn alot here.! from the wood tone to the pickups and setup believers i hope this thread here will express about how enthusiastic we guitar players are !

for all the harsh critics and comments i hope we all end with a smile

thanks

 

[Halowords]

Realizing this has gone way off the rails, I am not sure if the general "rules of thumb" have been covered. Anyway...

If you believe wood species plays no part in the tone, then I guess it does not matter. From what I have read in the admittedly subjective experiences of others, neck-thru's tend to be described as having the neck wood (and fretboard) having a much stronger effect on the sound than the wings. Presumably since the vibrations of the strings interact much more directly with the wood below it (fretboard and neck wood), not to mention that includes the wood the pickups are interacting with.

So if you believe the Internet, odds are if the woods have any impact, the neck and fretboard woods would have a much greater effect than the wings. In theory the Mahogany might color the tone of the guitar. In reality, most people I have read or talked to found they did not notice much difference in their guitars based on the wings. Again, as you've seen opinions on that run the gambit. It it DOES make a difference, then Mahogany seems a safe bet. Even if it does make a difference, odds are probably pretty good you could get Alder, Swamp Ash, Limba, Korina, or most any other commonly-used woods and get a sound you liked out of it, unless you ended up disliking the scale, construction, etc. Changing pickups, strings, tone knobs, etc. obviously have an effect.

Just consider that a recitation of general Internet consensus. From whichever side of the argument you reside on, odds are a Walnut-and-Mahogany guitar is probably a pretty safe bet in terms of the materials used.

-Cheers

 

[stevexc]

but i guess from another point view.. basically is either hard dense wood or soft wood that sounds... merely representation of hard dense wood or softer wood.. but to the extend of differentiating a hard rock maple to an ebony its still no clue...

I would personally lean in that direction.

Really, though, I don't think there's many guitars out there, if any, that sound BAD just because of the wood - I'm sure both sides of the tonewood camp will agree to that. Especially considering that MDF guitar, haha. While the "pro-tonewoods" may or may not believe that walnut and mahogany will sound optimally good, I can't think of a reason to believe that alone will make it sound BAD.

Although I just looked it up on guitarbench's tonewood database - they say that the typical tonal characteristics of mahogany and walnut are supposed to be quite similar. So if the tonewoods do count in any significant amount, it should be a good combo!

 

[sehnomatic]

I'm just going to copy - paste what I wrote before:

May I introduce something new? Dampening factor.

We've all flicked rulers on our desks or tables, if you haven't, do it right now. Introduce as many variables as possible, ruler material, how hard you hold the ruler, put paper between the ruler and your table, put things on your ruler, put that thing on different positions on the ruler. Now what if the ruler parallels a guitar string?

What I'll propose, and like most "theories" guitar related, is just a theory: guitar "tone" comes from the interaction of everything and the string - then of course, string and pickup.

If you rummage through the laws of conservation of energy, one can deduce that string vibration (sustain?) WILL be lost as it is transferred into the neck, body, hardware and back to the string - It's all a matter of how well it will transfer it back.

Like your ruler, if the contact isn't good (not holding the ruler down well), the string/ruler will not vibrate for as long as energy is lost in the transfer back and forth. Hence good construction > good wood.

If you put anything else on the ruler that isn't solid (not being solid will dissipate energy) the ruler will not vibrate for as long. Arguably, tremolos, floyd roses in particular which will dissipate a lot of energy can affect your tone.

Punch your mattress, now punch your table. Which one returns the most energy? Again, arguably, density of wood affects tone.

I tried to approach guitar from a scientific perspective, but as with everything guitar: nothing is or will be set in stone.

From http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...newood-myth-magic-bullcrap-3.html#post3904291 < this thread is a trainwreck

__________________________________

And I'll add this: The "I'm a better builder now. I can afford better wood" effect.

Ebony. Mahogany. Brazilian Rosewood. We recognize these as "prized" because of their "tonal characteristics". There is an unfortunate loop here that dates back to the beginning:

These woods have always been expensive due to their use in other fields. Luthiers that are very good, making good instruments can afford these more expensive woods, note how I don't say superior wood.

Said luthiers now make their instruments of superior construction, electronics, and hardware with these woods. Then people will think "Oh damn, that wood sounds great!"

Then the eternal loop begins where the prized woods go up and up and up in price, so only the best luthiers can afford them, and these woods only appear in these superior guitars and make people think it's the wood... we know the rest from here.

It's the blokes like us right now that are fueling this irrational notion. I can't wait until the age of luthiers getting their hands on some more richlite, bamboo, and carbon fiber.

Fast-forward some 70 years, and here we are in this thread, arguing over the same crap. There's my stance as I see it and again... nothing is or will be set in stone.

__________________________________

OP, I sincerely apologize for the sad state of the topic of "wood" and the turmoil it brings out of us.

EDIT: I'd like to say that yes. wood makes a slight difference, but no wood is superior to another.

 

[Galius]

I have a DC800 with mahogany wings and a solid walnut neck. With the same pickups I cant tell a bit of difference between that one or my DC800 with alder body and maple neck.

 

[TRENCHLORD]

I have a DC800 with mahogany wings and a solid walnut neck. With the same pickups I cant tell a bit of difference between that one or my DC800 with alder body and maple neck.

Both guitars have hard dense wood center planks, softer-wood body wings, ebony boards?, and they have the same pickups.
It makes sense that they would sound and feel alike.

 

[Mehnike]

This guy has an abundance of information on why/how wood affects tone in pretty good amounts of detail. Plus there are charts describing common specie from dark to bright. Worth checking out. Once you read it, its kind of hard not to think wood affects tone.

The Frudua Guitar Craftpedia

 

[hanachanmaru]

Realizing this has gone way off the rails, I am not sure if the general "rules of thumb" have been covered. Anyway...

If you believe wood species plays no part in the tone, then I guess it does not matter. From what I have read in the admittedly subjective experiences of others, neck-thru's tend to be described as having the neck wood (and fretboard) having a much stronger effect on the sound than the wings. Presumably since the vibrations of the strings interact much more directly with the wood below it (fretboard and neck wood), not to mention that includes the wood the pickups are interacting with.

So if you believe the Internet, odds are if the woods have any impact, the neck and fretboard woods would have a much greater effect than the wings. In theory the Mahogany might color the tone of the guitar. In reality, most people I have read or talked to found they did not notice much difference in their guitars based on the wings. Again, as you've seen opinions on that run the gambit. It it DOES make a difference, then Mahogany seems a safe bet. Even if it does make a difference, odds are probably pretty good you could get Alder, Swamp Ash, Limba, Korina, or most any other commonly-used woods and get a sound you liked out of it, unless you ended up disliking the scale, construction, etc. Changing pickups, strings, tone knobs, etc. obviously have an effect.

Just consider that a recitation of general Internet consensus. From whichever side of the argument you reside on, odds are a Walnut-and-Mahogany guitar is probably a pretty safe bet in terms of the materials used.

-Cheers

no, i still believe that maple to mahogany does contribute to fair amount of differences.. both sides of believers have gotten their claims proven ! its also my first time hearing a shovel guitar that sounded decent enough.. i think from this point here we only hear differences between hard and soft wood ... being able to tell the specific character that relates to specific species of wood is still far from reached... but having a decent guitar that makes up from wood itself its better to know which kind of wood is hard or soft anf also due to type of construction like setneck or a neck thru... we kind of mix and match to know or guage the likelyhood on how the guitar is to be expected for...

thanks for your pointers least that i now know that mine would be a bright sounding guitar apart from choosing the pickups which i also.believe to influence on the overall sound of the guitar... hahah sorry for causing such a controversy here... but i know we all have serious believers here ! ! for the effort and fusturation you guys have put in to get people convinced

 

[Necromagnon]

I'd like to ask just one little question: are you able to differentiate a piece of steel and the same piece of aluminum when hitting it to make it vibrate at it's resonance frequency?
The difference in density between steel and aluminum is way superior than the difference of density (put in percent of course) than the difference between hard maple and mahogany. So, better try to check this out first, it's easy to do, and if nobody succeed that, well...