Neck thru walnut with mahogany wings?

[stevexc]

I felt that changing the body between alder and mahogany of similar weight made a clear difference and I do believe I could pick them in a blind test and I might be able to pick them in a mix too. [...]

But I have made some effort to test it. Have you?

I don't have the tools, time, skills, or resources to test it, but i have a question for you - have you tested two different bodies of similar weight of the same wood? How noticeable is the difference? If you want to get scientific - and it seems you have that inclination - you can't just say "well, this mahogany body sounds like x and this alder one sounds like y, so that's characteristic of each". You've definitely proven that two different bodies sound different, though - so the wood makes A difference. Just not necessarily the TYPE of wood.

 

[DredFul]

Locking threads with tonewood discussion isn't a half bad idea.


I think in the guitar world the question of "tone woods" is kind of like the question "is there a divine creator?" Because both sides tend to believe very strongly and neither can really convince the other that they are right.

My thoughts exactly. Also people should just chill out and keep their opinions to themselves. It will just end up as a fight.

Also I don't understand why people come to yell "there is no tonewood" to threads like this. Kind of the same thing when someone says they hate Justin Bieber on a Megadeth video on youtube.

Live and let others live.

 

[hanachanmaru]

well guys ! come on we are all hobbyist from all corners of the world... lets get the discussion right and focus on constructive opinions... at the end of the day we still speak of the same language huh ... music rock and metal... when i will get my walnut neck and mahogany wings with a top.secret walnut top to bring both sides a smiling face huh? cause you guys are going to swear at me hahah..

 

[Promit]

I don't have the tools, time, skills, or resources to test it, but i have a question for you - have you tested two different bodies of similar weight of the same wood? How noticeable is the difference? If you want to get scientific - and it seems you have that inclination - you can't just say "well, this mahogany body sounds like x and this alder one sounds like y, so that's characteristic of each". You've definitely proven that two different bodies sound different, though - so the wood makes A difference. Just not necessarily the TYPE of wood.

I have not, and your point is valid. I've heard other people say, well it's about the specific sample of wood and how it was harvested/dried/whatever. Or it's about the way the particular neck and body resonate together. It seems to me that the amount of testing you'd have to do to move that out of the category of "lore" and into "evidenced belief" is enormous.

My empirical evidence is that I took a alder Strat, moved the neck/pickups/electronics/bridge/strings as a unit to a new mahogany body of similar weight, and it sounded darker. That's all I've got and I'm not trying to overplay my hand here. The rest of it, I have to take on faith from builders that there is a difference between a nice tonewood A versus a nice tonewood B versus plywood or anything else.

Addendum: on a tremolo equipped guitar, the tremolo unit (mainly the sustain block) probably counts as "tonewood".

Let's be clear: at the end of the day it is about a specific guitar, and the generalities are only guesswork because a lot of us don't get to trial these combinations ahead of time. Sometimes because they're orders, sometimes because they're customs/builds. My experience has been that once a guitar is in my hand, I can tell most of what I need to know without plugging it in. If the plugged in tonality through the amplifier doesn't reflect what I hear in the acoustics of the instrument, I have a signal chain issue to fix (usually pickups). And I am generally looking for pickups that are trying to represent the acoustics of the guitar, not override them.

I can imagine that with some choices of pickups and signal chain, the acoustic properties of the guitar are diminished. I always felt the classic EMGs (81/85) made the wood irrelevant, for example. I also find that some amps are not as sensitive to these details for whatever reason. Pushing and pulling with EQ introduces another level that can heavily override what's coming in. These things are not my style. I like a highly transparent and revealing signal chain, and maybe that's why I tend to emphasize the guitar's wood and construction more than others.

 

[FIXXXER]

have you guys ever seen a guitar that features super fancy
woods and that has been painted in a solid color? nope? coincidence?

srsly, talking electric guitars, 98% of the sound comes from the pickups,
the pickup "reacts" to METAL (string) so how the hell would it pick
up anything that comes from the wood, which clearly is made of...uhm WOOD!?

"tonewood" on ELECTRIC guitars is complete BS,
if you have any little common sense you'll agree

different story on acoustic instruments,
however this is a completely different topic...

 

[mnemonic]

ITT: Lots of shitty posts.

Did the original poster ask for a debate on whether tonewood makes a difference? no? Then why start a debate?

If you don't think wood makes a difference, this clearly isn't the thread for you, just move on. Everyone has their opinion (whether tested or not) and the arguments aren't going to sway anyone.

 

[DredFul]

"tonewood" on ELECTRIC guitars is complete BS,
if you have any little common sense you'll agree

Yes, it might be bullshit but it's not necessary to mock people about "not having a common sense". I am willing to politely argue about the topic but this thread is not the place for it.

ITT: Lots of shitty posts.

Did the original poster ask for a debate on whether tonewood makes a difference? no? Then why start a debate?

If you don't think wood makes a difference, this clearly isn't the thread for you, just move on. Everyone has their opinion (whether tested or not) and the arguments aren't going to sway anyone.

You have a point sir. I appreciate your post.

Lastly, I am now retreating from this thread. I'm not on a good mood and I don't want to start a fight.

If Fixxxer or anyone else wants to discuss about tonewood with me I am willing to have a chat. Just send me a PM.


@hanachanmaru I would use walnut as the core and add a mahogany top to it. Kind of like a reverse Les-Paul I think the core wood affects the tone more and the top is the icing.

I'm sorry your thread turned into this nonsense.

 

[Navid]

I'm sorry your thread turned into this nonsense.

Lots of shitty posts.

Why are you encouraging the OP to think about things that aren't relevant?
You're also potentially making the OP spend more money on a specific wood selection that might not even reflect what matters most: the aesthetic look of the guitar itself.
We believe it's better to choose a guitar based on what can actually be predicted. The look of a guitar is much more important that something as abstract as wood influence on tone. The OP should love the look of the guitar.
The tone of a properly done custom guitar will always be great, regardless of the woods used. I want the OP to focus on something more important, like what is comfortable to play and what kind of instrument would make him play more. Our ultimate goal is to have somebody else in this community make more art. More music.
Not wasting time discussing about mojo.

 

[AwDeOh]

If the debate is going to continue past this point, please take 30 seconds to listen to this clip, then report back on what tonewood you're hearing here:

Clicky!

EDIT: If you've heard the clip before and know what tonewood is being used, don't ruin it for everyone else!

 

[Halowords]

When will people stop asking these questions?
And when will people stop smoking when trying out a guitar?
I'm sure most of the crap we read on this forum is caused by weed. It must be. There is no other way.

[snip]

To answer the OP:
You won't notice any tone coloring from the wood, especially because you would hardly have anything to compare it to.

You say that, and yet...

That is my point!
No one knows.

That seems kind of a contradiction.

We hardly know if it makes any difference at all. Few have tried to prove wood makes a difference, few have tried to prove it doesn't. No one used proper scientific methods.
Now, how can we tell what you'd get with one kind of wood compared to another? There is no way we can.

There are 2 hypothesis about wood:

• It makes a difference
• It doesn't make any difference

Both are yet to be proven
I stand for those who think it doesn't make any difference.
I have built instruments and I never even bothered looking for a difference in sound.
Mostly because all those "tone differences" some people speak about can be equalized with 1 or 2 knobs on the amplifier or simply by moving your right hand in the right spot.

Use the wood you like to see.

And by the way, have you tried the search function in this forum? There are countless threads like this and no one has ever reached any conclusion for this exact reason.

You have a point about the search function, and the tone qualities of wood are probably largely overstated, especially once you factor in all the other parts (especially effects, overdrive, or distortion). Still, your premise is stating as-fact your opinion is right because, having not bothered looking for a difference in sound and the evidence one way or the other is largely anecdotal and subjective, then it must make no difference. That does not just compartmentalize subjective experience, it completely disregards it. That is no more proof than the other side stating wood is the soul of the guitar. As you said, nobody knows. Not with any real scientific gravity. So your hardline stance is no more valid than the opposing one, is it?

-Cheers

 

[TRENCHLORD]

Why are you encouraging the OP to think about things that aren't relevant?
You're also potentially making the OP spend more money on a specific wood selection that might not even reflect what matters most: the aesthetic look of the guitar itself.
We believe it's better to choose a guitar based on what can actually be predicted. The look of a guitar is much more important that something as abstract as wood influence on tone. The OP should love the look of the guitar.
The tone of a properly done custom guitar will always be great, regardless of the woods used. I want the OP to focus on something more important, like what is comfortable to play and what kind of instrument would make him play more. Our ultimate goal is to have somebody else in this community make more art. More music.
Not wasting time discussing about mojo.

By your expert analysis, every 25.5" scale guitar that's tuned to E with a set of E.B. lights would sound exactly the same as long as they all had the JB/59 set .

The thing you are missing is that vibrations resonate together.
The body doesn't block the vibration of the string from passing through itself, nor does the string block out the vibrations from the guitar's woods.
They vibrate together and share themselves with each other.

Things vibrate in unison together when they are connected, they don't vibrate exclusively unless you disconnect them (and even then they can form a vibrational loop through the air itself).
Blast your amp near max and stand out in front then hit an open big B and let it ring. The speakers vibrations will re-cycle right back through the strings and pickups.

We've all yelled into our pickups haven't we? Our voices aren't magnetic but they can still be picked up by the magnet right?

If wood don't matter, you might want to call guys like Steve Vai and Eric Johnson, just to let them know they've been full of shit all these decades .

How many basses do you find with mahogany bodies or necks?
The reason is that harder/denser woods transmit a more solid and clean fundamental note without as rich or complex of overtones.
Full mahogany basses won't cut through the mix as well as maple and walnut basses.

IMO the main thing is low-end cleanness/tightness/solidity.
It's easier to shape the mids and highs with the pickups and amp, but moving the amp's low-knob won't do much at all for adding or subtracting that tightness that you get from a hardwood core.

Who really cares if some drunken head-banging idiot in row 35 can hear a difference or not?

I agree that people do get way too caught up in the mixing and matching of all these pieces (sometimes 6-10) of wood when in reality they're going to be working against each other (frequency combing) just as much or more than they are working together.

When you get into laminated necks and multi-ply bodies with tops and all, well that does get much less predictable.

 

[Navid]

The thing you are missing is that vibrations resonate together.
The body doesn't block the vibration of the string from passing through itself, nor does the string block out the vibrations from the guitar's woods.
They vibrate together and share themselves with each other.

Nope I'm not missing it, I'm aware of physics, thanks.
It is just impossible to predict how a piece of wood would sound compared to another so I'd suggest people just to give up and think about something actually more relevant in their lives.

And by the way, I built a 4 string mahogany neck (Sipo quarter sawn with 1/3 of sapwood) 32'' scale bass with white oak body last month. I also put 3 truss rods in. (2 steel rods and 1 dual action truss rod)
It sounds like a bass and everyone likes it.

 

[Eliguy666]

Here is a test with identical hardware, same amp, same person, different wood.

Is this good enough for you guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLxE8iDWD_w

Yes, wood does effect tone. Anyone who says things like "pickups only get the steel strings' sound" should try playing a string not anchored into anything.

Wood choice is second only to effects, hardware, and pickups in importance in tone.

I invite the dissent to make a cuipo guitar and see how they like it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavanillesia_platanifolia

 

[Señor Voorhees]

Here is a test with identical hardware, same amp, same person, different wood.

Is this good enough for you guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLxE8iDWD_w

Yes, wood does effect tone. Anyone who says things like "pickups only get the steel strings' sound" should try playing a string not anchored into anything.

Wood choice is second only to effects, hardware, and pickups in importance in tone.

I invite the dissent to make a cuipo guitar and see how they like it. Cavanillesia platanifolia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've seen this posted around a lot lately trying to debunk people who don't buy into tone woods. They've proved nothing other than two guitars sound different. The same way that if they played two of the same exact guitars, ie: two ash guitars, they'd also sound different. Wood effects tone to some degree, but it's not reliable in determining what a guitar would sound like. There was another thread 'round here that I posted a recording of several different guitars. The brightest guitar I recorded was a mahogany bodied maple neck with rosewood fretboard. So if you told somebody "yeah, it's made of mahogany so it's gonna be a warm sounding guitar" and they bought it on that assurance, they'd be sorely disappointed.

I had two other guitars in the batch of 5 with similar wood specs, and they all sounded drastically different. That alone to me is reason enough not to expect a guitar to sound a specific way on wood specs alone.

To address the OP, It's not entirely possible to determine what it'd sound like. As I said, guitars made out of the same types of wood sound different. Just because, I'll post it here too. The last three guitars in this sound clip are all mahogany bodies, maple necks, and two have ebony boards. (3 and 5 are ebony, 4 has rosewood.)

https://soundcloud.com/foxtrot89/guitars-acoustic

 

[AwDeOh]

Here is a test with identical hardware, same amp, same person, different wood.

Is this good enough for you guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLxE8iDWD_w

Yes, wood does effect tone. Anyone who says things like "pickups only get the steel strings' sound" should try playing a string not anchored into anything.

Wood choice is second only to effects, hardware, and pickups in importance in tone.

I invite the dissent to make a cuipo guitar and see how they like it. Cavanillesia platanifolia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All that proves is that two different guitars sound different - you could expect differences in tone when you compare two completely 'identical' guitars.

Then we go down the road of requirements for two guitars to be termed 'identical'. We don't know if all pickups in that video have the same exact number of winds, the same winding pattern, identical potting, identical output, and identical resistance throughout all points in the tone chain - on and on, ad nauseum.

You hear stories such as how Slash fell in love with a particular example of X Les Paul - one that came off the factory line like the others in it's run. Why did that guitar have a particular tone that he enjoyed? Why don't all 'identical' guitars in that run sound the same?

 

[Eliguy666]

We don't have to agree, but that video proves, at least, that there is reason to suspect tonewood differences, as the differences in the two guitars match exactly the tonal stereotypes of the woods.

In any case it's incredibly rude to belittle the OP for their beliefs in tonewood when they are generally accepted as true.

 

[hanachanmaru]

guys !!! please do polite and good sense of conversation. ! i do appreciate both parties having to take their mind and soul to populate this thread.

 

[Promit]

You hear stories such as how Slash fell in love with a particular example of X Les Paul - one that came off the factory line like the others in it's run. Why did that guitar have a particular tone that he enjoyed? Why don't all 'identical' guitars in that run sound the same?

Nobody at any point claimed that any two bodies of wood X sound exactly the same. That's a major misrepresentation of the argument. If anything, the idea that two guitars of identical woods and construction sound different almost mandates that two guitars of non-identical woods will sound different as well.

There's actually a few arguments happening here and streams are getting crossed, which is further frustrating people I think. My attempt at unwinding:
* Do two supposedly identical guitars sound the same?
* Do different tone woods have an impact on tone, and how substantial is that impact?
* Is there any consistent bias that a particular species of wood imparts on a guitar's tone?

Some are saying that you can't make presumptions about tonality from just the species of wood. I think that's a fair argument and relevant to the OP, though I don't really have an opinion on that particular point. What I take issue with is the people arguing that you can make your guitar out of whatever the hell and it doesn't matter. I don't agree with that.

 

[ElysianGuitars]

Wood qaulity over type I dont buy into the different tones specially now days of the modern electric. construction pickups and amp are gonna determine that, everything else is for eye pleasure might be a difference in tone but not enough to determine what ull use, me personally choose for the looks and constrast

Any time a customer tries to tell me this I tell them to plan the build as if it did matter. You'll wind up with a better guitar, despite your belief system.

 

[Eliguy666]

Any time a customer tries to tell me this I tell them to plan the build as if it did matter. You'll wind up with a better guitar, despite your belief system.

That's the way building things is: Plan against every single possible problem you can unless it harms the product at a whole.

Out of curiosity, what's your personal opinion on the matter? I'm kind of half/half, I think that attack, brightness, and volume are effected by the wood but not as much as the pickups alter the voicing.

Edit: As the thread is getting a bit off topic, to the OP, walnut and mahogany should balance nicely. Walnut is somewhat bright (between limba and maple?) from what I've heard, but very growly. Mahogany is dark, but with some of the same texture and harmonic breakup. This is going off of Warmoth and personal anecdotes entirely. Light walnut and light mahogany (weightwise) are supposedly preferable. If you're looking for a gorgeous orange wood with tone similar to walnut, I absolutely love working with padauk (though it is irritating/allergy causing in some).

http://www.warmoth.com/Guitar/Necks/NeckWoodsPop.aspx
http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/bodies/options/bodywoodoptions.aspx