Neural DSP teasing something new (Quad Cortex)

[broangiel]

Same. QC is gone from my YouTube front page now. And I still haven’t seen one in the wild, let alone played one.

I’m still very open to the idea of buying one. But they really need a computer editor and tone cloud. And ideally, the ability to load up my Nameless, Granophyre etc plugins on there. That was mentioned ages ago and I don’t think it’s come to fruition yet.

There is a Tone Cloud where folks can share presets/captures. There isn't a marketplace yet, but the peer-to-peer sharing is there. NDSP has underdelivered in significant fashion, but the Tone Cloud is, indeed, up and running.

 

[SamSam]

I've used mine for all my rehearsals and once live when I got the opportunity to do so.

Tone wise I am pretty happy, I still do want the plugins to become usable as its still a key feature I expect and will use.

The narrow switches annoy the fuck out of my feet but otherwise I am happy with it.

I haven't used my FM3 I'm months. I may use it for my bass rig though.

Lots of shops are still back ordered as they trickle in. At least in Europe there is still demand from new customers.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I feel like this is going to go the way of the Eleven Rack or GSP1101, the hardware is just going to age out before they can get half the stuff they've promised and it'll be a footnote in NDSP history and they stick to plug-ins or they bring out a more fully baked product at some point in the future.

 

[SamSam]

It is possible although given how long Fractal and Line 6 have managed to maintain certain platforms I would imagine they can keep it going for at least 5 years. The hardware itself is high end. The development is the issue here.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

It is possible although given how long Fractal and Line 6 have managed to maintain certain platforms I would imagine they can keep it going for at least 5 years. The hardware itself is high end. The development is the issue here.

All it's going to take is Line 6 or Fractal bringing out another product generation before folks refer to the QC as "last generation".

Bear in mind, I don't think the QC is bad, or deserves to fail, I just think it's getting far enough behind that it's outlook is seeming less rosy.

 

[laxu]

All it's going to take is Line 6 or Fractal bringing out another product generation before folks refer to the QC as "last generation".

Bear in mind, I don't think the QC is bad, or deserves to fail, I just think it's getting far enough behind that it's outlook is seeming less rosy.

I agree. At this rate it might end up as the "Wii U" of digital modelers. They still haven't delivered a lot of the features I expected by the end of the year. Was way too optimistic with that.

At the moment the QC still has a couple of advantages over the competition:

* Captures (sure, there's Kemper)
* Mic preamps (sure, Helix Floor has one)
* Form factor (nothing has quite the same amount of I/O and switching in this size)
* Touchscreen UI + knobs/switches
* Cab sims with virtual movable mics

 

[MaxOfMetal]

I agree. At this rate it might end up as the "Wii U" of digital modelers. They still haven't delivered a lot of the features I expected by the end of the year. Was way too optimistic with that.

At the moment the QC still has a couple of advantages over the competition:

* Captures (sure, there's Kemper)
* Mic preamps (sure, Helix Floor has one)
* Form factor (nothing has quite the same amount of I/O and switching in this size)
* Touchscreen UI + knobs/switches
* Cab sims with virtual movable mics

Everyone who has one seems to really like it, or at least like it enough to stick with it, it just seems that no one is really converting to them, which is a bigger problem I think.

I thought it was solid when I tried it out, but I wasn't exactly ready to get one, and I'm the perfect audience: someone ecosystem agnostic that plays predominantly digital. But it doesn't do anything my toaster, RaxeFx, or Stomp doesn't in a way that makes me want to replace or add.

 

[mikah912]

Everyone who has one seems to really like it, or at least like it enough to stick with it, it just seems that no one is really converting to them, which is a bigger problem I think.

I thought it was solid when I tried it out, but I wasn't exactly ready to get one, and I'm the perfect audience: someone ecosystem agnostic that plays predominantly digital. But it doesn't do anything my toaster, RaxeFx, or Stomp doesn't in a way that makes me want to replace or add.

If you're coming from a fully-formed ecosystem that has ample third-party content creators like Kemper, Fractal or Line 6....it's an adjustment. You're wholly reliant on the free Cortex Cloud to get you new stuff, and a LOT of it is unlabeled random junk.

That being said, there are some guys out there doing great work despite the lack of the marketplace. Live Ready Sound, Sweetwater (yep, THAT Sweetwater) Studios, Tone Junkies, Headfirst Amplification and even Rabea are some of the more prominent ones. And from what I can tell, Neural DSP is still selling pretty much every unit they can make.

The good news is that there's ample firepower in the hardware to keep it from "aging out" before they get their promises together, a la GSP1101 or Eleven Rack. The other thing to keep it from meeting the fate of those platforms is the still-damn-good Capture functionality.

I'm a platform-hopping fool having had Helix, Kemper and FM3 each more than once. Surprisingly...I can't bring myself to part with my QC, even with the blatant and disappointing overpromising and under-delivering. The form factor and workflow are really just kinda perfect for me.

 

[olejason]

I definitely agree on the development backlog starting to creep into concerning territory. Darkglass is sort of known for pushing out new iterations of pretty much everything to keep the hype train rolling and to fix bugs or address customer wishes. I think the Quad Cortex has some sustaining power due to the powerful hardware used but a new 'generation' from Line6 or Fractal might push their hand.

 

[GunpointMetal]

It is possible although given how long Fractal and Line 6 have managed to maintain certain platforms I would imagine they can keep it going for at least 5 years. The hardware itself is high end. The development is the issue here.

Biggest difference there is L6 and Fractal delivered a fully-baked product (with the exception of the FM3 headphone thing) and NDSP seems to have chucked out some hardware while barely hitting any of the major pre-release points (plugins, professional marketplace) as well as avoiding dealing with noted hardware issues in the first couple of runs, while still pumping out new plugins to sell. I'd be more annoyed had I spent $1800 on a device and then watched the company shill more software that was supposed to be able to be loaded on my hardware but still isn't capable yet.

 

[broangiel]

And from what I can tell, Neural DSP is still selling pretty much every unit they can make.

Almost everyone is selling every unit they can make—because what can be made is hamstrung by supply chain shitstorms. This isn’t a strong indicator of success or a flex in this market.

 

[mikah912]

Almost everyone is selling every unit they can make—because what can be made is hamstrung by supply chain shitstorms. This isn’t a strong indicator of success or a flex in this market.

Not a flex, but the demand seems to have sustained from launch last year as far as anyone can tell.

I'm not saying NDSP will never feel the pain of underdelivering on the development milestones they said would be available "at launch" or "shortly after launch". I'm simply saying it's not impacting sales measurably for the moment. Also, 1.3 has been a pretty well-received update - present company included.

 

[broangiel]

Not a flex, but the demand seems to have sustained from launch last year as far as anyone can tell.

I'm not saying NDSP will never feel the pain of underdelivering on the development milestones they said would be available "at launch" or "shortly after launch". I'm simply saying it's not impacting sales measurably for the moment. Also, 1.3 has been a pretty well-received update - present company included.

There is literally no way you or I or anyone that’s not NDSP or a distributor can judge demand because we don’t know how many units are produced month to month or how that figure changes over time.

All we see is “Out of Stock.” And again, in this market, that’s a pretty common scenario.

 

[mikah912]

There is literally no way you or I or anyone that’s not NDSP or a distributor can judge demand because we don’t know how many units are produced month to month or how that figure changes over time.

All we see is “Out of Stock.” And again, in this market, that’s a pretty common scenario.

No, of course not. What we do know is that they just recently passed the 10,000 QC sold in what will likely be the worst year of this unit's existence - the first. From here, the development will only grow and no new user will have a user experience as bad as what it was like in the 1.0/1.1/1.2 days.

 

[broangiel]

No, of course not. What we do know is that they just recently passed the 10,000 QC sold in what will likely be the worst year of this unit's existence - the first. From here, the development will only grow and no new user will have a user experience as bad as what it was like in the 1.0/1.1/1.2 days.

Sure, but that’s different than “the demand has sustained” and more measurable than “they’re selling all they can make.”

I’m sure the UX is fine and have no doubts it will get better—I certainly hope they won’t make it worse. My criticisms as a whole have been focused on what was promised vs what was delivered and the glacial development pace despite that gap. I’m not deriding the usability or tones or whatever.

 

[mikah912]

Sure, but that’s different than “the demand has sustained” and more measurable than “they’re selling all they can make.”

I’m sure the UX is fine and have no doubts it will get better—I certainly hope they won’t make it worse. My criticisms as a whole have been focused on what was promised vs what was delivered and the glacial development pace despite that gap. I’m not deriding the usability or tones or whatever.

All of those can be true at the same time, y' know. Anyway, it's all good. I'm no water carrier for NDSP, and absolutely agree that they should continue to get roasted on not delivering on what was promised every. single. day. until they make good.

No amount of personal satisfaction with the unit will coerce me to let them off the hook regarding that.

 

[broangiel]

All of those can be true at the same time, y' know.

I do But only one of those three things (the 10kU sold) can be qualified by us outsiders. We can only speculate about demand and the number of units they can continue to build, and those two things are incredibly hard to judge in this market.

 

[bmth4111]

I bought the unit because I was super inspired to write more music with their plugins. They announced early on that the plug-in usage on qc was going to happen but it still hasn’t. My guess is that it will be one of the last things added.very sneaky of them to announce this feature so early.

At this point it feels like I’m waiting for them to update the unit to the point where I feel I have got my monies worth. I understand the plug-in team is separate from the hardware team, but it still feels like salt in the wound when big new plugins are released with features the qc doesn’t even have yet…

It’s really user friendly and I generally love it but it’s lacks in so many ways.

The fact that the (pretty simple) looper was the bulk/star of this “huge update” was also ridiculous. all that time for a couple of basic feature updates.

 

[lurè]

The hype generated from their plugin has made initially the biggest impact on the preorders and sales.

People were expecting to play their plugins live and still hasn't happened yet and you're left with a unit that basically doesn't deliver anithyng new or better than other counterparts.

 

[laxu]

Biggest difference there is L6 and Fractal delivered a fully-baked product (with the exception of the FM3 headphone thing) and NDSP seems to have chucked out some hardware while barely hitting any of the major pre-release points (plugins, professional marketplace) as well as avoiding dealing with noted hardware issues in the first couple of runs, while still pumping out new plugins to sell. I'd be more annoyed had I spent $1800 on a device and then watched the company shill more software that was supposed to be able to be loaded on my hardware but still isn't capable yet.

The Line6 Helix has received a massive list of new amp models, effects and whatnot over the years. Same for Fractal who have over a decade of development to fall back on rather than making things from scratch. So in that sense they are not comparable. People just forget about the past.

I don't get why people are up in arms about the plugins. I'm sure there are plenty of challenges porting plugins to a completely different CPU architecture and those who develop the VST plugins are most likely not the people with the knowhow about embedded DSP development.