Peavey Invective Megathread Misha Mansoor Signature Amp

[Blast Meat]

Guys, did anyone of you actually swap tubes to another type? I know someone trying to fit EL34's, but the BIAS is way too cold even though he maxed the bias adjust knob.

Anyone had similar issues?

 

[Blast Meat]

John Fields just left a comment and mentioned that the MSDI DI-Output on the Peavey Invective seems to recognize which type of guitar speaker is connected and changes the sound of the in-built speaker simulation accordingly. This means that when you connect some V30's to the Peavey Invective and catch the DI-Output for recording, the mic sim should sound like a mic'd V30 speaker, and when using Greenbacks, it should sound like a mic'd Greenbacks etc.

Thought this might be worth sharing for you guys!

 

[beavis2306]

How could it do that?

 

[Blast Meat]

Guess it's related to the impedance curve of the speaker. When a speaker is connected to a guitar amplifier, a current is being sent back to your amplifier through the output jacks depending on the said individual impedance curve of the guitar speaker. This will change the sound inside your guitar amp - the same principle as of why resistive loads sound different to reactive loads. Reactive loads try to simulate a particular speaker impedance curve to make your amp sound and respond as if it was connected to a real guitar cabinet instead. This is why cheap resistive loads make your guitar amp sound lifeless and dull when cranked.

My guess is that they make use of this impedance curve and kind of feed it into the MSDI Output of the Invective...

Edit: There are also reactive loads that let you change the emulated impedance curve from "British" to "American" voicings. (This model I'm talking about allows you to select between a V30 and a Greenback impedance curve)

 

[Blast Meat]

I asked John Fields about how the MSDI works. His answer:

"There's a simple passive filter that does an outgoing SM57, "one inch from the outside of the cone simulation" on the signal that is at the speaker jack. The impedance curve is inherently transposed to that filter by means of Ohm's Law. It's too simple not to work. Obviously, the effects of volume in the ears can't be accounted for, nor cone breakup; however, the character of this "simulation" holds for all practical purposes."

So as far as I understand, it's a static frequency filter of a Shure SM57 one inch off the cone combined with the impedance curve of the connected speaker. He mentions that physical effects happening on a specific cab cannot be replicated, which makes sense. But the character of the speaker is caught and combined with the SM57-type filter. Really cool stuff...

 

[Korblod]

The Invective 120 is back in stock

 

[FILTHnFEAR]

I'll waiting on them to get more of the 4x12's in.

 

[soul_lip_mike]

I think I’m gonna sell mine. I haven’t touched since I took delivery of my Fractal FM3.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I see in the manual that it ships with the suggested bias of 26
It can take other tubes- does anyone have the suggested settings or range of settings for each of the popular types like 34, 77?
I know in my Randall head there was a formula that yielded different bias numbers for each tube type but I don't see that info for Invective

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Ok, just checked my stock issued bias and 2 were at 26, 2 tubes were around 24ish
I bumped it up a bit to 27-29 and I think it sounds waaaay better now!

 

[FILTHnFEAR]

Ok, just checked my stock issued bias and 2 were at 26, 2 tubes were around 24ish
I bumped it up a bit to 27-29 and I think it sounds waaaay better now!

What kinda change did you notice when raising the bias?

 

[crankyrayhanky]

What kinda change did you notice when raising the bias?

Not sure if it's in my head, but it feels like the attack is faster and livelier, lows are deeper
as is my love lol
Might be a feel thing, not sure if it would record this way or could all be in my head?

In general, what are the difference between a cold and hot biasing? Does it match up with my observations?
It seems like a big company might error on the side of cold bias knowing that they need the amp to withstand a being on a sales floor, lots of on/off, perhaps not selling for many months so they need it to have maximum endurance. I'm sure being too hot could burn tubes out quickly, but a few notches up from factory cold seems good to me.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I want to try a quad set of el34s next but not sure where to put the bias. I think it needs to be in the low 30s (if it's anything like the Randall rm100)?

 

[FILTHnFEAR]

@crankyrayhanky faster attack and deeper lows sounds good to me.

I still have the stock 6l6's but when I get around to changing tubes I'm gonna try KT88's. One of the many things I like about the amp, the ability to run pretty much any tube type.

 

[Michael Sawyer]

John Fields just left a comment and mentioned that the MSDI DI-Output on the Peavey Invective seems to recognize which type of guitar speaker is connected and changes the sound of the in-built speaker simulation accordingly. This means that when you connect some V30's to the Peavey Invective and catch the DI-Output for recording, the mic sim should sound like a mic'd V30 speaker, and when using Greenbacks, it should sound like a mic'd Greenbacks etc.

Thought this might be worth sharing for you guys!

So, Tobias Just... I have gone on the web page that talks about the MSDI out on the Invective, and I have watched the YouTube video as well. Neither of them go through any type of procedure for how to use the MSDI output to achieve such a recording. I am trying to figure out how I can record with my Invective 120 silently using the MSDI output.

In order to do this, do I need to use an entirely separate piece of gear, like a Two Notes Torpedo Captor, or Captor X, or an OxBox or the like? If so, its seems to me that this MSDI is sort of redundant. Don't get me wrong, I love my Invective, but if it's not plug n play, then what's the big deal about this MSDI??? Now the Rev D20 and G20 and also the Generator III all come with Two Notes Torpedo Captor hardware built into the amps, and even have a switch integrated into the amp that allows you to save YOUR OWN 8 or 9 favorite cab IRs to the switch so that you can have them instantly without the need to carry a bunch of other gear with you. Granted, the Generator III is a $4000 amp, but my point is, if you can't just plug it into your A.I. and record, then what is the milestone here? You still have to have the amp cranked and pissing off the neighbors in order to get a good tone to record, so if you have to do all of that, why not just mic the damn thing and get the real deal sound? What's cheaper, a Shure SM-57, or a Captor? The SM-57.

I want to record silently though. So also, if I need a Torpedo Captor (X), then the cab sim the amp produces is irrelevant too because any load box is going to include software which will include IRs that will still blow the MSDI out of the water. So please correct me if I am wrong here. Do I need a load box to record silently, or no? And if the answer is no, would you please be kind enough to share with me the procedure you follow in order to silently record with the Invective 120. I would really appreciate it as I cannot seem to find anything about this on the web ANYWHERE.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, help, or information that could help me out

 

[Deadpool_25]

So, Tobias Just... I have gone on the web page that talks about the MSDI out on the Invective, and I have watched the YouTube video as well. Neither of them go through any type of procedure for how to use the MSDI output to achieve such a recording. I am trying to figure out how I can record with my Invective 120 silently using the MSDI output.

In order to do this, do I need to use an entirely separate piece of gear, like a Two Notes Torpedo Captor, or Captor X, or an OxBox or the like? If so, its seems to me that this MSDI is sort of redundant. Don't get me wrong, I love my Invective, but if it's not plug n play, then what's the big deal about this MSDI??? Now the Rev D20 and G20 and also the Generator III all come with Two Notes Torpedo Captor hardware built into the amps, and even have a switch integrated into the amp that allows you to save YOUR OWN 8 or 9 favorite cab IRs to the switch so that you can have them instantly without the need to carry a bunch of other gear with you. Granted, the Generator III is a $4000 amp, but my point is, if you can't just plug it into your A.I. and record, then what is the milestone here? You still have to have the amp cranked and pissing off the neighbors in order to get a good tone to record, so if you have to do all of that, why not just mic the damn thing and get the real deal sound? What's cheaper, a Shure SM-57, or a Captor? The SM-57.

I want to record silently though. So also, if I need a Torpedo Captor (X), then the cab sim the amp produces is irrelevant too because any load box is going to include software which will include IRs that will still blow the MSDI out of the water. So please correct me if I am wrong here. Do I need a load box to record silently, or no? And if the answer is no, would you please be kind enough to share with me the procedure you follow in order to silently record with the Invective 120. I would really appreciate it as I cannot seem to find anything about this on the web ANYWHERE.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, help, or information that could help me out

The MSDI is for going direct to an interface or FOH via XLR—I’m not sure it’s is made for silent recording. It has its own level and tone though so do you need any master volume at all? Is the MSDI Level completely independent? I don’t know as I haven’t ever used mine.

 

[Michael Sawyer]

The MSDI is for going direct to an interface or FOH via XLR—I’m not sure it’s is made for silent recording. It has its own level and tone though so do you need any master volume at all? Is the MSDI Level completely independent? I don’t know as I haven’t ever used mine.

I was in the same boat until about 2 weeks ago. I have just been playing through the amp, and doing so CRANKED TF UP at full power every time I get a chance. I've been getting into recording though. Nothing crazy, just learning everything I can in little steps, and I literally knew ZERO about any of it 6 months ago. In fact, it's this amp that inspired me to do so. So I did a bunch of researching and then went out and bought a Scarlett 2i2 interface, bought some plugin software, some 8" studio monitors (because even when I'm tracking, I like to be able to feel and hear that low end), some ATH-M50x headphone monitors, XLR and TRS cables, downloaded Reaper and got a license (this I would recommend for ANYONE out there trying to learn about the ins and outs of recording, because Cuckos, the creators of Reaper, saw fit to include nice, professional, and informative tutorial videos for EVERY DAMN THING you can possibly do in the Reaper DAW, except recording guitar silently using an MSDI output on a guitar amp, so each one is like its own little class on whatever the topic happens to be. And they cover EVERYTHING, from getting started and all the basics all the way through to the most detailed stuff that you don't get into until you are a PRO at the s%$#), and finally I went out and bought a new PC just to use for recording and guitar stuff, because one of the first lessons I learned was that it takes a good deal of CPU power/speed/memory to be able to run DAW using an audio interface to do guitar stuff, especially if you are doing multiple tracks per recording and relying on plugins to get your tones.

Anyway... So I f'n LOVE my Invective, and I decided I wanted to figure out how to record using it instead of the usual plugins. Enter this fiasco trying to figure out just WTF the MSDI is. Because initially, I knew it was on the back panel, but I had no clue what it was used for and figured I never would. When I started researching how to do this, I immediately was directed to a handful of links for YouTube videos, one website, and a couple forums. But none of them explain how to do it, and the forums are nothing but posts just like mine right here, with someone's question, but no answers.

After some digging and researching other stuff and leaving the word "Invective" and "MSDI" out of my searches, I began to get somewhere. Not with recording silently with an MSDI, but just my understanding of silent recording with tube amps in general. What I have come to understand is this...... Tube amps and related tech, just like digital stuff, has come a LONG way in the past 10 to 15 years. While people still mic cabs (which could arguably still be the very best way to record tone-wise, IF one knows what they are doing of course, and if you don't, it's garbage), direct outputs, load boxes, attenuators and such have become the new norm. And the beauty of it is that using IR technology, one can record tracks that sound like mic'd up cabs without actually mic'ing up a cab ever, AND, one may do so SILENTLY using a set of headphones with their 100 watt or more tube amp heads. You just need something like a Universal Audio OxBox or a Two Notes Torpedo Captor X or the like. This allows you to connect the output of your amp to a load (via the 1/4 inch speaker output on your amp) so that you don't fry your transformer, but its a load box instead of your 4, 8, or 16 ohm speaker cab. And from that load box you can connect to your audio interface and record in your DAW using headphones or studio monitors and using cab sims (or IRs) to get good tone.

Thing is, and this is my entire point here, unless I'm just oblivious to some huge fact.... These load boxes, as I mentioned before, use a 1/4 inch speaker cable connection from your amps 1/4 inch output. The MSDI already has its own cab sim, so even if you found a load box with an XLR INPUT, you would just be adding an IR anyway, so you would be adding an IR to an already cab simulated output. Stands to reason this would cause odd, or anything but run of the mill tone, or is at the very least just completely unnecessary. So, I pose this question. WHAT then, is the point? And if there is a point that I am missing, PLEASE will someone share it with me, because I would LOVE to be able to record silently with just my Invective as it sits, rather than spending $600 or more on a Two Notes Torpedo Captor X or the like. And if doing so is not possible, I'd just like the confirmation so that I can go on and pull the trigger on said Captor X. I know what I want to do is achieveable. I just need to know what I need, or need to do in order to get to work on making it happen.

Thanks for the response though. I do truly appreciate any and all help that is offered up here

 

[aceshigh92]

So, I pose this question. WHAT then, is the point? And if there is a point that I am missing, PLEASE will someone share it with me, because I would LOVE to be able to record silently with just my Invective as it sits, rather than spending $600 or more on a Two Notes Torpedo Captor X or the like.

The MSDI on the Invective is not intended to be used for silent recording. It is supposed to be used when playing live. You can have a cab on stage connected to your amp for stage volume, and you can also send the MSDI signal out to FOH so you don't have to fuck about with micing up a cab on stage.

If you want to record silently, you need a seperate loadbox such as the Captor X

 

[Michael Sawyer]

So...... Captor X it is then.....

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Michael Sawyer]

If anybody is interested, I've got a damn near brand new Peavey Invective 120 with footswitch and MAYBE the 212 Invective cab too for sale. I am going to find the classifieds on here and post it now. I am asking $1250, but that is sale cost, if I have to ship it, which will be most likely, the purchaser (or purchasee, wtf ever) would have to pay shipping cost along with the asking price. Believe me when I say it would be more than worth it. This amp is pretty much brand new and in immaculate condition, everything is 100% functional including the footswitch.