Punk Rock and the Alt-Right

[Science_Penguin]

I think Rollins' statement at the end of the article does bring up a good point about Anti-Fa. The whole "a lot of these guys come prepared to goad you into a fight," thing.

However justified Anti-Fa may be for getting violent, I do strongly believe they shouldn't. I came to this realisation after Charlottesville (and, eerily, I think I used similar wording as Rollins...) that, by getting violent they are playing right into the Neo-Nazi's hands. They WANT the confrontation. At best, they want it as an excuse to seem like the victims, and at worst, they want it as an excuse to... as Rollins put it, "empty a magazine of rounds into a crowd."

 

[Petar Bogdanov]

In Europe, nazis just go to soccer matches. The music scene, as leftist as it is, seems like the least appropriate place to go.

 

[Ebony]

Last time I saw nazis at a gig was in Sweden some years ago. One of them tried to make fun of me (I'm half arabic and look like a fundamentalist when I don't shave) but once he realized all of his friends was too busy being afraid of my facial expression to laugh at his "joke" he tried to be my best friend for the remainder of the evening.

But unless they actually make an effort to bother me, the idea of getting extra offended by nazis at a metal/punk gig is just stupid. Half the crowd at any given show consists of devout misanthropes who pride themselves on being hateful and wearing pins and shirts saying things like "kill yourself" and "people=shit" is pretty much the dress code.

Last time I was at the inferno festival in 2015 there was literally a guy standing in front of me with a shirt saying "your grandmother suck cocks in hell". Now, my grandmother is the only grandparent I have, she's the second dearest person I have in my life and we used to live together. Just a few weeks before the Inferno festival she broke her leg and was hospitalized, so I had her fresh in my mind when I saw this.

What was I supposed to do? Rip him away from the girl he was kissing and beat the living shit out of him? It sure was tempting, but offcourse I didn't do it because, regrettably, one still has to use a mental filter when going to a metal/metal-esque show because many of the bands (and fans) still do their best to appear as mean as possible. And I use the word "appear", because most of these people are just ordinary people with an attitude.

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Last time I saw nazis at a gig was in Sweden some years ago. One of them tried to make fun of me (I'm half arabic and look like a fundamentalist when I don't shave) but once he realized all of his friends was too busy being afraid of my facial expression to laugh at his "joke" he tried to be my best friend for the remainder of the evening.

But unless they actually make an effort to bother me, the idea of getting extra offended by nazis at a metal/punk gig is just stupid. Half the crowd at any given show consists of devout misanthropes who pride themselves on being hateful and wearing pins and shirts saying things like "kill yourself" and "people=shit" is pretty much the dress code.

Last time I was at the inferno festival in 2015 there was literally a guy standing in front of me with a shirt saying "your grandmother suck cocks in hell". Now, my grandmother is the only grandparent I have, she's the second dearest person I have in my life and we used to live together. Just a few weeks before the Inferno festival she broke her leg and was hospitalized, so I had her fresh in my mind when I saw this.

What was I supposed to do? Rip him away from the girl he was kissing and beat the living shit out of him? It sure was tempting, but offcourse I didn't do it because, regrettably, one still has to use a mental filter when going to a metal/metal-esque show because many of the bands (and fans) still do their best to appear as mean as possible. And I use the word "appear", because most of these people are just ordinary people with an attitude.

That "grandmother" line is actually a quote from The Exorcist, a very well known and commercially successful horror movie from the 70's. It's "popular" due to the intense scene in which it's uttered. Of course, by modern death metal standards the quotes from that movie are pretty tame.

 

[Ebony]

That "grandmother" line is actually a quote from The Exorcist, a very well known and commercially successful horror movie from the 70's. It's "popular" due to the intense scene in which it's uttered. Of course, by modern death metal standards the quotes from that movie are pretty tame.

I have seen the movie.

 

[Drew]

This is a really excellent point. Nearly every time I see someone bring anti-fa violence up, it's clearly meant as a deflection. It's kind of like if two children misbehave and one is caught, they'll immediately turn on the other one in an effort to either deflect or delegitimize criticism aimed at them.

(Not a perfect example, by the way, because it implies that neither party had legitimacy, which is not necessarily the case with regards to anti-fa.)

This, exactly. It's simple what-about-ism; since the alt-right can't defend their beliefs in the mainstream, they defend their methods as being "no worse than the other side."

The disappointing part is the degree to which that attitude has been adopted by the so-called "alt-light," the guys who aren't overtly white nationalist and whose racism rarely goes beyond the occasional "I';m not racist, but..." statement, but who the alt-right sees as a fertile breeding ground of dissatisfied (mostly young, white, male) Americans who could potentially be converted to their belief structure.

 

[feraledge]

I came to this realisation after Charlottesville (and, eerily, I think I used similar wording as Rollins...) that, by getting violent they are playing right into the Neo-Nazi's hands.

You mean when Antifa played into the hands of these pacifists?

In case you need a refresher, if it weren't for Antifa, there would probably have been far more than one dead body:

 

[Explorer]

In some past topic, some idiot started claiming that the left in the US was just as violent as the right. I started a topic, which I can't find (might have been deleted by mods) asking for examples of leftist violence numerically equivalent to rightist violence, given that the neo-Nazis and KKK are right wing.

The equivalence argument rhetoric failed due to lack of real examples, which isn't surprising.

There have also been topics here, like the discussion of Orson Scott Card's bigorty, where people have argued that intolerance of bigotry is the same as bigotry, and that those who fought for the Allies in WW2 to defeat the Axis were just as evil as the Nazis with their death camps.

If one has to deliberately lie to make one's case, there isn't a case.

 

[AngstRiddenDreams]

I have posted here in a grip but I'm glad to see this corner of the internet still has some rational people. It seems everywhere I look Antifa is getting shit on because "they're violent so that makes them fascists".
Slightly off-topic, do you guys think it's unreasonable or alarmist to say it seems the tide of fascism is rising in the US?
On topic, my buddy in a punk band has "This machine kills fascists" tattooed on his body and of there's the Dead Kennedy's song "Nazi Punks Fuck Off". So, as much as they may exist in the scene I'd say the opposition is larger.